Grunfeld a Great GM. Proves Doubters Wrong

[hands11]

Notice how OP conveniently disappears once the Wizards lose games.

TROLL

Who's disappearing? I still stand by my assertion. Name me one team that doesn't lose games at home? Name me one team that has a perfect record? The plan is still in motion for a competitive run in the playoffs so i don't know where you get off somehow thinking that the Wizards are out of contention. Our guys are fighting hard out there and want to win. Pretty soon their hard work will pay off and they will win consistently. It is beneficial and imperative to experience losses and setbacks because it teaches many of the young guys that success is not given to you, it has to be earned. It also pushes them to work harder. Wall and Beal are experiencing that. Coach Wittman continues to groom and the team has put faith in his system. Getting Nene back for the playoffs will definitely help. We are watching this team grow right before our eyes physically amd mentally yet negativity still pervades amongst the fanbase. In comparison to other teams who sit at the bottom of conference standings, are plagued with financial woes, have many empty seats in their arena and owners/management who don't have such a commitment to winning, Ted and Ernie are way above average.

I appreciate your exuberance. It's refreshing to see a fan excited about the team, even if I don't agree with some of the positions you take. But that's not required to appreciate someone who is being an optimistic fan.

You have a lot more faith in Randy then I do. That's for sure. Personally I think he has passed his time of usefulness and we are now getting diminishing returns from having him as the HC.

Yes, getting Nene back will help. I don't think anyone here disagrees with that. A healthy Nene helps this team. And yes, the team has shown growth at times. I'm just not seeing as much of it as I think we should be seeing and that's frustrating.

As for people here posting other coaching options and GM option, I realize you are a newer poster so maybe you missed it, but they have been posted several times. I even just posted this link a few times recently.

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_ ... head-coach

I watched a few of them interviewed.

Fred Hoiberg seems like an interesting candidate from what I saw. Steve Kerr could also be but from the sounds of it, he would want a lot of control over more then just coaching. That could be an interesting fit. David Fizdale also seem interesting. There are lots of coaches that would be upgrades to Randy. Randy is doing what he knows. He knows how to be a good assistant. That doesn't make him a good HC. HCs have to actually game coach. That isn't a strong suit for Randy.

I got to thinking about it some. First thought was this. Who are the best and what qualities do they have that make them the best. Then go find someone in that mold.

[ptptpt]

It intrigues me, i consistently hear "Fire Ernie, Fire Wittman", yet no viable replacements are proposed? If there are, how do you know those replacements will have greater success and know what they are doing? Ernie and Wittman have decades of experience in the NBA yet many say they want to bring in some "rookie" coach or GM that has little to no experience? It's not a simple task for anyone to just come in and take over the reins of a professional basketball team. It has been tried and 9 times out of 10 it fails. I know, it's natural for fans to ignore what they have and long for a new face. Almost comparable to how a man may have a perfect situation at home, yet look outside for a new "thrill".

Glad you could join us after a loss bro. Shows some real cajones there.

Seems that you don't venture much outside this thread much huh? There has been consistent talk of who would be viable replacements for both Ernie and Wittman around this forum. Whenever you have the time you should go through this forum and read some of these threads. Very interesting stuff.

[milellie111]

It intrigues me, i consistently hear "Fire Ernie, Fire Wittman", yet no viable replacements are proposed? If there are, how do you know those replacements will have greater success and know what they are doing? Ernie and Wittman have decades of experience in the NBA yet many say they want to bring in some "rookie" coach or GM that has little to no experience? It's not a simple task for anyone to just come in and take over the reins of a professional basketball team. It has been tried and 9 times out of 10 it fails. I know, it's natural for fans to ignore what they have and long for a new face. Almost comparable to how a man may have a perfect situation at home, yet look outside for a new "thrill".

This is some grade-A stench right here, and proof that of trolling.

There are pages on top of pages of discussions on viable, proven replacements that could do a better job than Grunfeld and Whitman. You're just too lazy to look it up, and thus assume we haven't proposed any. Just off the top of my head, I've seen George Karl, Nate McMillian, Stan Van Gundy, and Lionel Hollins names thrown around. As far as GM candidates, Chris Wallace, Glen Grunwald, Donnie Walsh, Jeff Weltman, and whole long list of other names have been thrown around.

And all of these GM/coaches have had greater proven success than Grunfeld and Whitman.

And LOL at calling this a "perfect situation." You're trolling is embarrassing.

Those guys you listed (particularly head coaches) how many championships have they won? If they were put on this team in this situation their record could be better or worse, we don't know, but it wouldnt fair to Whittman without giving him a chance to prove himself. This NBA season is not over and the Wizards are in playoff position. Anything can happen in the NBA and in the playoffs. Who says they don't surprise everyone and make the finals? Then ALL of your proposed changes would prove invalid.

And i never said this was a "perfect" situation. No GM/Coach or team is perfect. However it is a better situation than many others.

[milellie111]

It intrigues me, i consistently hear "Fire Ernie, Fire Wittman", yet no viable replacements are proposed? If there are, how do you know those replacements will have greater success and know what they are doing? Ernie and Wittman have decades of experience in the NBA yet many say they want to bring in some "rookie" coach or GM that has little to no experience? It's not a simple task for anyone to just come in and take over the reins of a professional basketball team. It has been tried and 9 times out of 10 it fails. I know, it's natural for fans to ignore what they have and long for a new face. Almost comparable to how a man may have a perfect situation at home, yet look outside for a new "thrill".

Glad you could join us after a loss bro. Shows some real cajones there.

Seems that you don't venture much outside this thread much huh? There has been consistent talk of who would be viable replacements for both Ernie and Wittman around this forum. Whenever you have the time you should go through this forum and read some of these threads. Very interesting stuff.

No need for me to go searching threads for proposed viable replacements because as far as i'm concerned, no one needs to be replaced at the moment.

[ptptpt]

It intrigues me, i consistently hear "Fire Ernie, Fire Wittman", yet no viable replacements are proposed? If there are, how do you know those replacements will have greater success and know what they are doing? Ernie and Wittman have decades of experience in the NBA yet many say they want to bring in some "rookie" coach or GM that has little to no experience? It's not a simple task for anyone to just come in and take over the reins of a professional basketball team. It has been tried and 9 times out of 10 it fails. I know, it's natural for fans to ignore what they have and long for a new face. Almost comparable to how a man may have a perfect situation at home, yet look outside for a new "thrill".

Glad you could join us after a loss bro. Shows some real cajones there.

Seems that you don't venture much outside this thread much huh? There has been consistent talk of who would be viable replacements for both Ernie and Wittman around this forum. Whenever you have the time you should go through this forum and read some of these threads. Very interesting stuff.

No need for me to go searching threads for proposed viable replacements because as far as i'm concerned, no one needs to be replaced at the moment.

Then what you just said is irrelevant then. Enjoy this next loss.

[milellie111]

Notice how OP conveniently disappears once the Wizards lose games.

TROLL

Who's disappearing? I still stand by my assertion. Name me one team that doesn't lose games at home? Name me one team that has a perfect record? The plan is still in motion for a competitive run in the playoffs so i don't know where you get off somehow thinking that the Wizards are out of contention. Our guys are fighting hard out there and want to win. Pretty soon their hard work will pay off and they will win consistently. It is beneficial and imperative to experience losses and setbacks because it teaches many of the young guys that success is not given to you, it has to be earned. It also pushes them to work harder. Wall and Beal are experiencing that. Coach Wittman continues to groom and the team has put faith in his system. Getting Nene back for the playoffs will definitely help. We are watching this team grow right before our eyes physically amd mentally yet negativity still pervades amongst the fanbase. In comparison to other teams who sit at the bottom of conference standings, are plagued with financial woes, have many empty seats in their arena and owners/management who don't have such a commitment to winning, Ted and Ernie are way above average.

I appreciate your exuberance. It's refreshing to see a fan excited about the team, even if I don't agree with some of the positions you take. But that's not required to appreciate someone who is being an optimistic fan.

You have a lot more faith in Randy then I do. That's for sure. Personally I think he has passed his time of usefulness and we are now getting diminishing returns from having him as the HC.

Yes, getting Nene back will help. I don't think anyone here disagrees with that. A healthy Nene helps this team. And yes, the team has shown growth at times. I'm just not seeing as much of it as I think we should be seeing and that's frustrating.

As for people here posting other coaching options and GM option, I realize you are a newer poster so maybe you missed it, but they have been posted several times. I even just posted this link a few times recently.

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_ ... head-coach

I watched a few of them interviewed.

Fred Hoiberg seems like an interesting candidate from what I saw. Steve Kerr could also be but from the sounds of it, he would want a lot of control over more then just coaching. That could be an interesting fit. David Fizdale also seem interesting. There are lots of coaches that would be upgrades to Randy. Randy is doing what he knows. He knows how to be a good assistant. That doesn't make him a good HC. HCs have to actually game coach. That isn't a strong suit for Randy.

I got to thinking about it some. First thought was this. Who are the best and what qualities do they have that make them the best. Then go find someone in that mold.

Hands, i also appreciate your openmindedness and refreshing tone in your posts. Even if we don't see eye to eye on some things, we can have a mature debate without resorting to name calling and negativity. I have faith in ownership who has put faith in management who has faith in the coach. The players also are on board. I see the long term potential and understand what management is trying to do with this team. Yes, some games are dissapointing for me, however i keep faith in the long term goal. This team is in a fragile part of it's transitional phase and any abrupt changes could actually impede progress.

[hands11]

It intrigues me, i consistently hear "Fire Ernie, Fire Wittman", yet no viable replacements are proposed? If there are, how do you know those replacements will have greater success and know what they are doing? Ernie and Wittman have decades of experience in the NBA yet many say they want to bring in some "rookie" coach or GM that has little to no experience? It's not a simple task for anyone to just come in and take over the reins of a professional basketball team. It has been tried and 9 times out of 10 it fails. I know, it's natural for fans to ignore what they have and long for a new face. Almost comparable to how a man may have a perfect situation at home, yet look outside for a new "thrill".

This is some grade-A stench right here, and proof that of trolling.

There are pages on top of pages of discussions on viable, proven replacements that could do a better job than Grunfeld and Whitman. You're just too lazy to look it up, and thus assume we haven't proposed any. Just off the top of my head, I've seen George Karl, Nate McMillian, Stan Van Gundy, and Lionel Hollins names thrown around. As far as GM candidates, Chris Wallace, Glen Grunwald, Donnie Walsh, Jeff Weltman, and whole long list of other names have been thrown around.

And all of these GM/coaches have had greater proven success than Grunfeld and Whitman.

And LOL at calling this a "perfect situation." You're trolling is embarrassing.

Those guys you listed (particularly head coaches) how many championships have they won? If they were put on this team in this situation their record could be better or worse, we don't know, but it wouldnt fair to Whittman without giving him a chance to prove himself. This NBA season is not over and the Wizards are in playoff position. Anything can happen in the NBA and in the playoffs. Who says they don't surprise everyone and make the finals? Then ALL of your proposed changes would prove invalid.

And i never said this was a "perfect" situation. No GM/Coach or team is perfect. However it is a better situation than many others.

Sure. Anything is possible. Nene could return and give them some of what they are missing. But we have gotten to see this team all year now. We have gotten to see how Randy coaches a game. We have seen how little he seems to improve his skills as a head coach. He just doesn't seem to get better at what he doesn't do well.

Dude, I like to put on the rose colored glasses as much as anyone and just be a fan, but it also good to be objective as well. But hey, wear the glasses if it makes you happy. No harm in that.

But just so you understand, there are a lot of fans here who while they would really like to see the team do well, they have already made their decision about wanting Randy or Randy and EG gone. So they are in bad situation as a fan. As much as they would like to see a good first series or even series won, its not worth it if it means that would increase the changes of the Ted resigning Randy or Randy and EG.

As for the faith Ted has put in EG and Randy. He signed them for two years so he would be able to evaluate EG post Abe and Randy over more then just one season of a reboot rebuild. I wouldn't call that a full endorsement. Its more like a ... Ok.. I will give you a fair chance and lets see what you can do.

[leswizards]

Hands, i also appreciate your openmindedness and refreshing tone in your posts. Even if we don't see eye to eye on some things, we can have a mature debate without resorting to name calling and negativity.

You created a post saying that the doubters have been proved wrong, and you make a post saying anyone who knows basketball knows something that you agree with. I think you seriously need to look at your own tone in posting before you complain about how others post. You are clearly here because you can not accept that other fans might not enjoy EG, and you are doing everything in your power to try to get under their skin. That kind of behavior is very troll like.

BTW, you were absolutely wrong when you said that anyone who knows basketball knows that Jan Vesely will soon produce for the Wizards. And, EG has not proved any of his doubters wrong.

[TGW]

Those guys you listed (particularly head coaches) how many championships have they won?

Is that honestly the best response you could come up with? What a lazy, half-assed response.

If all NBA head coaches were judged on how many championships they've won, 27 of them would be out of jobs, including Whitman. So if that's your criteria on judging a coach, well then the guy your defending should be selling shoes right now, because he hasn't even sniffed the playoffs as a head coach.

If they were put on this team in this situation their record could be better or worse, we don't know, but it wouldnt fair to Whittman without giving him a chance to prove himself. This NBA season is not over and the Wizards are in playoff position. Anything can happen in the NBA and in the playoffs. Who says they don't surprise everyone and make the finals? Then ALL of your proposed changes would prove invalid.

Whitman has had ample opportunity with several teams to prove himself, and he hasn't. He's 83-119 as coach of the Wizards, and was 38-105 as the Wolves head coach. That's equivalent to 4 NBA seasons worth of games where he's had an opportunity to show that he's a capable coach, and he's been able to achieve an embarrassing .35 winning percentage. I don't think there's a coach in this league with a worst percentage—if there is one show me, because I'm tired of doing the work for you.

And are you banking on the Wizards making the finals to invalidate the opinion of those who don't want Whitman? If so, you are truly a bigger idiot/troll than I could have ever imagined.

And i never said this was a "perfect" situation. No GM/Coach or team is perfect. However it is a better situation than many others.

What metric are you using to judge situations by? There's plenty of data available to show how bad the Grunfeld/Whitman combination is...you can't just throw out the past like it doesn't exist.

[hands11]

Hands, i also appreciate your openmindedness and refreshing tone in your posts. Even if we don't see eye to eye on some things, we can have a mature debate without resorting to name calling and negativity.

You created a post saying that the doubters have been proved wrong, and you make a post saying anyone who knows basketball knows something that you agree with. I think you seriously need to look at your own tone in posting before you complain about how others post. You are clearly here because you can not accept that other fans might not enjoy EG, and you are doing everything in your power to try to get under their skin. That kind of behavior is very troll like.

BTW, you were absolutely wrong when you said that anyone who knows basketball knows that Jan Vesely will soon produce for the Wizards. And, EG has not proved any of his doubters wrong.

You might want to do some reading up on the characteristics of an bulletin board troll. Milli is no troll. He is a fan. So what he started a thread saying EG proves doubter wrong. Not like we don't poke at each other hear on a regular basis.

As for trying to get under peoples skin, aren't you trying to do that to him and haven't you done that to others here ? I've seen tons of trollish style posting on this forum. Where are you calling troll when posters are posting in a classic troll manner ?

[Nivek]

Those guys you listed (particularly head coaches) how many championships have they won? If they were put on this team in this situation their record could be better or worse, we don't know, but it wouldnt fair to Whittman without giving him a chance to prove himself. This NBA season is not over and the Wizards are in playoff position. Anything can happen in the NBA and in the playoffs. Who says they don't surprise everyone and make the finals? Then ALL of your proposed changes would prove invalid.

And i never said this was a "perfect" situation. No GM/Coach or team is perfect. However it is a better situation than many others.

How many championships have Grunfeld and/or Wittman won?

I'll hang up and listen to your answer.


Psst -- the coach's name is Wittman. No H.

[long suffrin' boulez fan]

Uh. He's a troll.

Don't feed the troll.

[TGW]

It intrigues me, i consistently hear "Fire Ernie, Fire Wittman", yet no viable replacements are proposed? If there are, how do you know those replacements will have greater success and know what they are doing? Ernie and Wittman have decades of experience in the NBA yet many say they want to bring in some "rookie" coach or GM that has little to no experience? It's not a simple task for anyone to just come in and take over the reins of a professional basketball team. It has been tried and 9 times out of 10 it fails. I know, it's natural for fans to ignore what they have and long for a new face. Almost comparable to how a man may have a perfect situation at home, yet look outside for a new "thrill".

Glad you could join us after a loss bro. Shows some real cajones there.

Seems that you don't venture much outside this thread much huh? There has been consistent talk of who would be viable replacements for both Ernie and Wittman around this forum. Whenever you have the time you should go through this forum and read some of these threads. Very interesting stuff.

No need for me to go searching threads for proposed viable replacements because as far as i'm concerned, no one needs to be replaced at the moment.

You're the one who asked the question.

You: "It intrigues me, i consistently hear "Fire Ernie, Fire Wittman", yet no viable replacements are proposed?"

I was ansering the question YOU asked. Not my fault you don't like the answer. Keep trolling though.

[leswizards]

You might want to do some reading up on the characteristics of an bulletin board troll. Milli is no troll. He is a fan. So what he started a thread saying EG proves doubter wrong. Not like we don't poke at each other hear on a regular basis.

As for trying to get under peoples skin, aren't you trying to do that to him and haven't you done that to others here ? I've seen tons of trollish style posting on this forum. Where are you calling troll when posters are posting in a classic troll manner ?

Funny quite a few people call him a troll, but you say he isn't. Alright, whatever.

I am not trying to get under his skin. I have tried my hardest to be respectful of him, and tried to make him understand why others call him a troll so often.

As to others, I don't think I have tried to get under anyones skin. If you are referring to our recent "spat", you created a strawman, accused me of not being a fan, and I think you called me a troll. If the result of that was my posts getting under your skin, good.

[milellie111]

Glad you could join us after a loss bro. Shows some real cajones there.

Seems that you don't venture much outside this thread much huh? There has been consistent talk of who would be viable replacements for both Ernie and Wittman around this forum. Whenever you have the time you should go through this forum and read some of these threads. Very interesting stuff.

No need for me to go searching threads for proposed viable replacements because as far as i'm concerned, no one needs to be replaced at the moment.

Then what you just said is irrelevant then. Enjoy this next loss.

That doesn't sound like the words of a fan to me. Enjoy this next loss? You must not be a supporter of the Washington Wizards if you are waiting to see them lose.

[milellie111]

Hands, i also appreciate your openmindedness and refreshing tone in your posts. Even if we don't see eye to eye on some things, we can have a mature debate without resorting to name calling and negativity.

You created a post saying that the doubters have been proved wrong, and you make a post saying anyone who knows basketball knows something that you agree with. I think you seriously need to look at your own tone in posting before you complain about how others post. You are clearly here because you can not accept that other fans might not enjoy EG, and you are doing everything in your power to try to get under their skin. That kind of behavior is very troll like.

BTW, you were absolutely wrong when you said that anyone who knows basketball knows that Jan Vesely will soon produce for the Wizards. And, EG has not proved any of his doubters wrong.

Wrong. I am clearly here because I am a fan of the Washington Wizards and this is a forum where i thought fellow positive supportive fans would hang out. Seems like I'm mistaken (except for some). The majority here seem bitter and scorned and enjoy living in the past.

[ptptpt]

No need for me to go searching threads for proposed viable replacements because as far as i'm concerned, no one needs to be replaced at the moment.

Then what you just said is irrelevant then. Enjoy this next loss.

That doesn't sound like the words of a fan to me. Enjoy this next loss? You must not be a supporter of the Washington Wizards if you are waiting to see them lose.

Whatever dude. You blew off my reply and the reply of quite a few other posters. If you really wanted to participate in this conversation you would at least do some research into answering some of your own questions that you pose on here. I don't see a point in talking to someone who doesn't even try to understand. You are just as closed minded as you claim we are.

[leswizards]

Wrong. I am clearly here because I am a fan of the Washington Wizards and this is a forum where i thought fellow positive supportive fans would hang out. Seems like I'm mistaken (except for some). The majority here seem bitter and scorned and enjoy living in the past.

So if fans don't share your view of EG they are "bitter and scorned and enjoy living in the past". Again, you need to consider the tone of your own post to understand why you are having such a hard time having a mature debate without resorting to name calling and negativity.

I am a fan of the Wizards as well, and I want them to do well. I think the best way for them to do well in the future is to replace EG. That doesn't make me "bitter and scorned and enjoy living in the past". It makes me a fan who wants to see the best for the Wizards.

[milellie111]

Those guys you listed (particularly head coaches) how many championships have they won?

Is that honestly the best response you could come up with? What a lazy, half-assed response.

If all NBA head coaches were judged on how many championships they've won, 27 of them would be out of jobs, including Whitman. So if that's your criteria on judging a coach, well then the guy your defending should be selling shoes right now, because he hasn't even sniffed the playoffs as a head coach.

If they were put on this team in this situation their record could be better or worse, we don't know, but it wouldnt fair to Whittman without giving him a chance to prove himself. This NBA season is not over and the Wizards are in playoff position. Anything can happen in the NBA and in the playoffs. Who says they don't surprise everyone and make the finals? Then ALL of your proposed changes would prove invalid.

Whitman has had ample opportunity with several teams to prove himself, and he hasn't. He's 83-119 as coach of the Wizards, and was 38-105 as the Wolves head coach. That's equivalent to 4 NBA seasons worth of games where he's had an opportunity to show that he's a capable coach, and he's been able to achieve an embarrassing .35 winning percentage. I don't think there's a coach in this league with a worst percentage—if there is one show me, because I'm tired of doing the work for you.

And are you banking on the Wizards making the finals to invalidate the opinion of those who don't want Whitman? If so, you are truly a bigger idiot/troll than I could have ever imagined.

And i never said this was a "perfect" situation. No GM/Coach or team is perfect. However it is a better situation than many others.

What metric are you using to judge situations by? There's plenty of data available to show how bad the Grunfeld/Whitman combination is...you can't just throw out the past like it doesn't exist.

And what is your metric for judging? I posed the championship question because you are the one who makes it seem like these other coaches and GM's are SOOO great and Wittman and Grunfeld are SOOO bad. You're just a name tosser I see. I don't need the Wizards to validate or invalidate anyone. I've been watching this game and business for awhile and know success doesn't come overnight. Since you are so high strung on any flashy named coach, how about Spoelstra or Scott Brooks if they were available? They are successful right? Yet, read around and many of their fans want them gone. That's why you can't listen to fans and forum "GM's" whine about change.

[milellie111]

Then what you just said is irrelevant then. Enjoy this next loss.

That doesn't sound like the words of a fan to me. Enjoy this next loss? You must not be a supporter of the Washington Wizards if you are waiting to see them lose.

Whatever dude. You blew off my reply and the reply of quite a few other posters. If you really wanted to participate in this conversation you would at least do some research into answering some of your own questions that you pose on here. I don't see a point in talking to someone who doesn't even try to understand. You are just as closed minded as you claim we are.

Really? Again, why do i need to look up coaching candidates when my team is in the middle of a playoff run? If the situation were different then yeah, but it's not. Wittman didn't make the playoffs last year because of Walls injury. Healthy Wall, then they would have been in the playoffs. 2 years back to back including this year. Why do i need to research a new car if the one i have currently serves my needs? If all you are saying is "Fire Ernie, Fire Wittman", then you and others are the ones who are close minded.