2013-14 MVP Discussion Thread Pt III

[Rock Hardy]

Bron is best in the game, but Durant deserves the MVP this season. He's done enough to earn it. This isn't a case like the Derrick Rose story. Durant is owning this season. Respect.

[mswenson]

people leave out old stats cuz it helps overrate michael jordan who really wasn't the best

[HotRocks34]

:lol: dude.. please give it a rest man... seriously.. are you dating lebron or something?

Nope. I just call it as I see it. I have not posted on this thread for awhile because there was no need, Durant was clearly in control. Now things take a different turn. We'll see how the Conference races turn out and who finishes the most strong.

If Durant wins, I will give him all the praise in the world. He has had an amazing season. I'm just tracking the race, that's all.

[mswenson]

if clippers didn't choke against 2 crappy teams the last two weeks and thunder ended with the 5th best record no way they would have gave it to durant

[Colbinii]

people leave out old stats cuz it helps overrate michael jordan who really wasn't the best

I explained why I left that out.

Those stats are from a league of 10 teams when half the best basketball players in the world played in a different league. It has nothing to do with overrating Michael Jordan or underrating players from your grandpa's era.

Durant for MVP, he had a great year and a year for the ages.

[therealbig3]

The MVP is Durant, and it's not really debatable imo. He was just flat out better than LeBron this year.

[Colbinii]

The MVP is Durant, and it's not really debatable imo. He was just flat out better than LeBron this year.

I disagree that he was better, but for what the media defines as MVP, Durant got what he needed to get done to win it.

[PaulieWal]

The MVP is Durant, and it's not really debatable imo. He was just flat out better than LeBron this year.

Yup, the race is over and KD will win it. There's nothing LeBron can do to win it now.

[therealbig3]

The MVP is Durant, and it's not really debatable imo. He was just flat out better than LeBron this year.

I disagree that he was better, but for what the media defines as MVP, Durant got what he needed to get done to win it.

I felt LeBron coasted for a lot of the year, especially on defense. I think Durant had a better year defensively. And offensively, pretty much every stat supports Durant. Durant to me was better on both sides of the ball this year, even if it was just by a little bit, which makes him the clear choice imo.

[rcontador]

Now we have a shift.

With Miami taking the lead in the East, the conversation changes. I've talked a lot in this thread about the Kobe vs CP3 debate in 2007-08, now we might move into the Kobe vs Garnett in 2007-08 area.

Dude. Stop.

[koolcrud]

Now we have a shift.

[Arman_tanzarian]

Yep the mvp is Durant. It got tied IMO after Brons 61 and their h2h. He was even catching up in all the stats etc. Since then though lebrons hasn't kept up the push and Durant simply been Durant of all season. Well deserved MVP, and like the other guy said up there this isn't any default MVP. Kd's earned it. Now let's see how he carries it over in to the playoffs. After watching tonight's game, Lebron looks about as mentally ready as ever for the title.

[NaturalThunder]

Nope. I just call it as I see it. I have not posted on this thread for awhile because there was no need, Durant was clearly in control. Now things take a different turn. We'll see how the Conference races turn out and who finishes the most strong.

If Durant wins, I will give him all the praise in the world. He has had an amazing season. I'm just tracking the race, that's all.

The problem, though, is that your logic is incredibly flawed in this instance. Miami being first in the East and OKC being first in the West means absolutely nothing. Zip. Zilch. Nada.....why?

Miami: 51-22 (27th ranked SOS)
OKC: 54-19 (13th ranked SOS)

So, not only is OKC still three games ahead of the Heat, their SOS is in the top half of the league while Miami's is close to the bottom. Durant has led his team through a much, MUCH tougher conference, playing 30+ games without his All-Star/All-NBA caliber teammate, and they're STILL three games ahead of Miami. Not only that, Durant's stats this year are just flatout better. This is more than just some Rose-esque narrative in 2011. Durant's just simply been the better player in the regular season.

[Wonderllama]

I don't think Lebron cares about MVP anymore. He just wants his team to get that #1 seed and finish strong. If Miami can get first place locked, I see Lebron resting a game or two.

[bondom34]

Now we have a shift.

With Miami taking the lead in the East, the conversation changes. I've talked a lot in this thread about the Kobe vs CP3 debate in 2007-08, now we might move into the Kobe vs Garnett in 2007-08 area.

Dude. Stop.

So much this. Its over unless Lebron goes for 50 the next 9 games and OKC loses out.

[HotRocks34]

Now we have a shift.

With Miami taking the lead in the East, the conversation changes. I've talked a lot in this thread about the Kobe vs CP3 debate in 2007-08, now we might move into the Kobe vs Garnett in 2007-08 area.

Dude. Stop.

So much this. Its over unless Lebron goes for 50 the next 9 games and OKC loses out.

It's not "this." Perhaps if you guys knew the history of the award better, you might feel differently.

Let me repeat things I have said throughout this thread, and I'll use the 2007-08 award as the example.

- In 2008, Chris Paul had substantially better stats than Kobe Bryant. Kobe Bryant won the award. So stats are not always the deciding factor. Record matters, winning your conference matters

- Stats can sometimes trump records, as they did for Jordan in, I think, 1987-88. But Jordan had an overwhelming advantage in PPG, PER, and WS/48 I believe

- In 2007-08, Kevin Garnett (3rd in MVP) had a better record than Kobe Bryant and won his conference. Kobe also won his conference. Kobe won the award

So, do I favor Durant? Of course. Is it a done deal? No, unless the voters themselves feel it is. Again, I said this exact scenario could happen several weeks ago in this very thread. I could dig it up, but it's not a big deal.

The goal of the regular season is the get the best record and win your conference. It's important. The early narrative for Durant was "Without Westbrook." I already discussed that above. The current narratives are "better record," "better stats" and "MJ Streak." Those are probably enough, should everything hold up. But Miami taking the lead in the Eastern Conference matters, or has mattered in MVP races past. I'm not trying to disturb anyone's bubble here, I'm just going off of what I've observed in the past involving MVP races.

If you asked me to put money down today, would I favor Durant? Of course I would. But Miami taking #1 in the East -- while OKC is still 2nd in the West -- changes the dynamic.

Anyone who tells you there is a set formula for MVP is lying. It has been voted different ways in different years, and what matters is what the voters care about in the particular year.

[bondom34]

Dude. Stop.

So much this. Its over unless Lebron goes for 50 the next 9 games and OKC loses out.

It's not "this." Perhaps if you guys knew the history of the award better, you might feel differently.

Let me repeat things I have said throughout this thread, and I'll use the 2007-08 award as the example.

- In 2008, Chris Paul had substantially better stats than Kobe Bryant. Kobe Bryant won the award. So stats are not always the deciding factor. Record matters, winning your conference matters

- Stats can sometimes trump records, as they did for Jordan in, I think, 1987-88. But Jordan had an overwhelming advantage in PPG, PER, and WS/48 I believe

- In 2007-08, Kevin Garnett (3rd in MVP) had a better record than Kobe Bryant and won his conference. Kobe also won his conference. Kobe won the award

So, do I favor Durant? Of course. Is it a done deal? No, unless the voters themselves feel it is. Again, I said this exact scenario could happen several weeks ago in this very thread. I could dig it up, but it's not a big deal.

The goal of the regular season is the get the best record and win your conference. It's important. The early narrative for Durant was "Without Westbrook." I already discussed that above. The current narratives are "better record," "better stats" and "MJ Streak." Those are probably enough, should everything hold up. But Miami taking the lead in the Eastern Conference matters, or has mattered in MVP races past. I'm not trying to disturb anyone's bubble here, I'm just going off of what I've observed in the past involving MVP races.

If you asked me to put money down today, would I favor Durant? Of course I would. But Miami taking #1 in the East -- while OKC is still 2nd in the West -- changes the dynamic.

Anyone who tells you there is a set formula for MVP is lying. It has been voted different ways in different years, and what matters is what the voters care about in the particular year.

Understood, but what you're not mentioning is that though Miami may have a higher seed, the record is worse and in a historically weak conference. To top it off, Durant has the 25 point streak "narrative" as well as the fact that the story for the 1 seed to Miami is that Indy choked it up to them, where the Spurs went on an 18 game win streak to get it in the West. To top off the better record in a better conference with a better narrative, Durant has better stats. Paul/Kobe is different in that they were in the same conference. Here's a comp for MVP candidates on BBR, and it shows these numbers including team records in a table w/ other candidates:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/friv/mvp.cgi

This debate is basically over for almost everyone.

[PaulieWal]

HotRocks, you are a very good poster but you are wrong on this one. First let me say KD has earned the MVP. He deserves it and is going to have his first veryyyy soon. Your arguments would hold more weight if analysts/journalists around the association were undecided. However, everywhere I look and see almost everybody says that KD is the MVP. The most prominent NBA analysts such as Bill Simmons, SAS, Wilbon, and others have openly declared that they are going to vote for KD. At this point LeBron isn't going to win it even if KD goes scoreless in all of his remaining games and LeBron averages 40 (I know it's a stupid hypothetical but just saying).

The race at this point is pretty much ever and the vote is a mere formality before KD hoists his first MVP.

[HotRocks34]

HotRocks, you are a very good poster but you are wrong on this one. First let me say KD has earned the MVP. He deserves it and is going to have his first veryyyy soon. Your arguments would hold more weight if analysts/journalists around the association were undecided. However, everywhere I look and see almost everybody says that KD is the MVP. The most prominent NBA analysts such as Bill Simmons, SAS, Wilbon, and others have openly declared that they are going to vote for KD. At this point LeBron isn't going to win it even if KD goes scoreless in all of his remaining games and LeBron averages 40 (I know it's a stupid hypothetical but just saying).

The race at this point is pretty much ever and the vote is a mere formality before KD hoists his first MVP.

That's fair. I don't have a vote, so I can only give my own opinion. If the voters have made their minds up, then it's over.

[bondom34]

Just wanted to add to the above HotRocks, as PaulieWal said you're a great poster, I think I just greatly disagree w/ you on this one! Your posts are always well thought out, but we differ here.