2013-14 MVP Discussion Thread Pt III

[QPR]

Michael Wallace is a Miami writer.

The count will be closer than it should be but conference standing should have absolutely no bearing if OKC finish with a better record. That's essentially just rewarding LeBron for playing in a much weaker conference.

[Thundestruck]

Maybe I'm an idiot but I really, really don't see even the slightest logic of winning the east is somehow more impressive even if OKC finishes with a better record than Miami, in the much harder conference but is 2nd in that conference.

Maybe because I'm an OKC homer but that doesn't make a lick of sense to me.

[deneem4]

This is for the people giving me a hard time the other night regarding the importance of winning a conference as regards MVP voting.

Michael Wallace, ESPN writer.

http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/ ... el-wallace

I've got Durant as the MVP. He's done enough to deserve it. But I also think it will be a very, very close vote at the end of the day. Especially if LeBron keeps Miami atop the East, with Wade missing in the neighborhood of 25 games this season

Everything matters. Particularly when an award is a subjective one.

How many games have westbrook missed??
perkins? ?
Sefolosha???

[deneem4]

LeBron 31.6 PER
Durant 30.8 PER

LeBron 64% TS
Durant 64.5% TS

LeBron 60.3 eFG%
Durant 57.1 eFG%

LeBron 13.1 TRB%
Durant 11.0 TRB%

LeBron 36.4 AST%
Durant 27.6 AST%

LeBron 125 ORTg, 101 DRTg
Durant 124 ORTg, 102 DRTg

LeBron .322 WS/48
Durant .316 WS/48

32.2
26.8
That's a 5 point swing...A FIVE POINT DIFFERENCE...
While missing 3 of his normal 5 starters for half of the season...you can't be serious

I'm afraid I am serious. If after asking me to provide some stats, you simply ignore all of them and use points per game as your main arguement, there is no point in me engaging in this discussion.

I didn't ignore them I included the most important one...they're pretty close in almost every category except maybe assist % and that's cause kd plays more offball...but the biggest difference is point...durant averages 20% more points this season...so yes I will use points per game as my main arguement...If this was flipped around and Lebron was averaging 32...people wwill be saying this is the greatest season in basketball history...how can u ignore a better ts% while scoring 5 more points....not to mention he might end the season scoring 50/40/90
You lebron stans jus can't give credit where it's due...KD is having a better individual season.

Westbrook perkins and sefolosha been out...He's been forced to play with a bunch of young bench players...Miami might lose wade some games but when u have vets like ray allen battier Lewis u can play more productive basketball, okc started 2 rookies their last game...

And then someone said having ibaka is better than bosh...people really don't pay attention to okc games and roster...durant literally wins games...Every game...wade and bosh have stepped up or bailed lebron out...who does that for durant?

[PaulieWal]

You lebron stans jus can't give credit where it's due...KD is having a better individual season.

What's with the insults deneem? You don't see others calling you "KD stan/LeBron hater". This thread has fostered civil and interesting discussions, I don' think anyone has shown any "fanboyism" so far here.

Anyway, comparing KD's this season and LeBron's last season it is clear that the *only* advantage KD has is in PPG.

Code: Select all

Player          Season  G   MP  FGA  FG%  3P%  2P%  FT% TRB AST STL BLK TOV  PTS
Kevin Durant   2013-14 72 38.4 20.5 .512 .412 .552 .872 7.5 5.7 1.3 0.8 3.5 32.2
LeBron James   2012-13 76 37.9 17.8 .565 .406 .602 .753 8.0 7.3 1.7 0.9 3.0 26.8

Code: Select all

Player          Season  G  PER  TS% eFG% TRB% AST% TOV% USG%   WS WS/48
Kevin Durant   2013-14 72 30.8 .645 .571 11.0 27.6 12.4 32.8 18.2  .316
LeBron James   2012-13 76 31.6 .640 .603 13.1 36.4 12.4 30.2 19.3  .322

What KD has done with the inconsistent lineup and mostly no Russ is nothing short of amazing but I still don't see how it's better than what LeBron did last year. He has taken more of an offensive scoring load but that's a given with Russ out. Also, you are saying that LeBron has been "bailed" out by Bosh and Wade. How many Miami games are you watching on a regular basis? What KD is doing here LeBron did that for 7 seasons in Cleveland and usually with good results.

As I have said before, the way these two are playing right now you tip your hat to these two phenomenal talents and simply hope that they meet in the Finals for a good series. It's evident by judging your previous posts that you don't like LeBron on a more personal level but hey, KD will be hoisting his well-deserved/earned MVP trophy very soon .

[mswenson]

if you are going to use scrub sefolosa as a player out. than haslem has missed about 70 games.

and it's harder to win with the oldest team in the league after being in the finals 3 years in a row.

[MisterHibachi]

if you are going to use scrub sefolosa as a player out. than haslem has missed about 70 games.

and it's harder to win with the oldest team in the league after being in the finals 3 years in a row.

Yeah but ppg bro

[QPR]

What KD has done with the inconsistent lineup and mostly no Russ is nothing short of amazing but I still don't see how it's better than what LeBron did last year.

I wouldn't say it's better, but it's certainly comparable, which is where the debate started (it was being claimed that KD hasn't been as good as LeBron last season, which I don't agree with).

Going purely by eye test, I would say that Durant has been as dominant this season as LeBron was last season. Not more, not less and a different kind of dominance, but as good nonetheless.

[deneem4]

You lebron stans jus can't give credit where it's due...KD is having a better individual season.

What's with the insults deneem? You don't see others calling you "KD stan/LeBron hater". This thread has fostered civil and interesting discussions, I don' think anyone has shown any "fanboyism" so far here.

Anyway, comparing KD's this season and LeBron's last season it is clear that the *only* advantage KD has is in PPG.

Code: Select all

Player          Season  G   MP  FGA  FG%  3P%  2P%  FT% TRB AST STL BLK TOV  PTS
Kevin Durant   2013-14 72 38.4 20.5 .512 .412 .552 .872 7.5 5.7 1.3 0.8 3.5 32.2
LeBron James   2012-13 76 37.9 17.8 .565 .406 .602 .753 8.0 7.3 1.7 0.9 3.0 26.8

Code: Select all

Player          Season  G  PER  TS% eFG% TRB% AST% TOV% USG%   WS WS/48
Kevin Durant   2013-14 72 30.8 .645 .571 11.0 27.6 12.4 32.8 18.2  .316
LeBron James   2012-13 76 31.6 .640 .603 13.1 36.4 12.4 30.2 19.3  .322

What KD has done with the inconsistent lineup and mostly no Russ is nothing short of amazing but I still don't see how it's better than what LeBron did last year. He has taken more of an offensive scoring load but that's a given with Russ out. Also, you are saying that LeBron has been "bailed" out by Bosh and Wade. How many Miami games are you watching on a regular basis? What KD is doing here LeBron did that for 7 seasons in Cleveland and usually with good results.

As I have said before, the way these two are playing right now you tip your hat to these two phenomenal talents and simply hope that they meet in the Finals for a good series. It's evident by judging your previous posts that you don't like LeBron on a more personal level but hey, KD will be hoisting his well-deserved/earned MVP trophy very soon .

It's better because you're taking durant out of his comfort zone you're taking him away from his usual lineup...t remember okc has had the most consistent lineup in the nba until westbrook got injured wince perkins was traded on the team kd been used to starting with the same 4 players because of his coach stubbornness...nows he's staring games with Jackson Robertson and adams...what kd doing different than lebron in cleveland is scoring 32 ppg in a tough ass western conference...and yes I watch alot of miami games what close game they had against a good team where wade hhasn't stepped up or bosh haven't bailed them out??? Please explain....

i dont understand how you're under valuing 5 ppg....that's a big difference, and enough of a difference...what kd did in January trumps anything lebron individually did in his career...
Just remember kd is 25 lebron is 29..and he's arguably topped lebron best season stats wise...

[MisterHibachi]

LeBron has 3 seasons (09, 10, 13) with a better PER than KD's current season and another one pretty much on the same level ('12). So no, KD hasn't topped LeBron's best season stat wise at all. In fact, what KD is doing right now 'statistically' would be LeBron's 4th best season.

Also, no one is undervaluing 5 ppg. You are just overvaluing it. On top of that, you haven't said a single word about defense (which y'know, is HALF THE GAME).

[PaulieWal]

LeBron has 3 seasons (09, 10, 13) with a better PER than KD's current season and another one pretty much on the same level ('12). So no, KD hasn't topped LeBron's best season stat wise at all. In fact, what KD is doing right now 'statistically' would be LeBron's 4th best season.

Also, no one is undervaluing 5 ppg. You are just overvaluing it. On top of that, you haven't said a single word about defense (which y'know, is HALF THE GAME).

Yeah, also it is difficult to have a debate when we give reasons and the answer is but "5 ppg" and laughable claims of Wade and Bosh "bailing" out LeBron. Wade himself is on pace to miss 25ish games.

I can certainly agree with QPR and can listen to arguments about this season being comparable with LeBron last year but that's not what deneem is saying.

[bondom34]

LeBron has 3 seasons (09, 10, 13) with a better PER than KD's current season and another one pretty much on the same level ('12). So no, KD hasn't topped LeBron's best season stat wise at all. In fact, what KD is doing right now 'statistically' would be LeBron's 4th best season.

Also, no one is undervaluing 5 ppg. You are just overvaluing it. On top of that, you haven't said a single word about defense (which y'know, is HALF THE GAME).

Yeah, also it is difficult to have a debate when we give reasons and the answer is but "5 ppg" and laughable claims of Wade and Bosh "bailing" out LeBron. Wade himself is on pace to miss 25ish games.

I can certainly agree with QPR and can listen to arguments about this season being comparable with LeBron last year but that's not what deneem is saying.

+1
You could maybe debate RS this year versus Lebron last year. That I'd say is close, and would depend on how KD finishes and how you view the win streak last yr vs. the 25 point game streak. People forget fast how dominant Lebron was last year, and how amazing the W streak was. That's about the only debate to be had (and isn't finished if KD doesn't play at least as well as he has so far for the last few games, otherwise there's no debate there either).

[PaulieWal]

LeBron has 3 seasons (09, 10, 13) with a better PER than KD's current season and another one pretty much on the same level ('12). So no, KD hasn't topped LeBron's best season stat wise at all. In fact, what KD is doing right now 'statistically' would be LeBron's 4th best season.

Also, no one is undervaluing 5 ppg. You are just overvaluing it. On top of that, you haven't said a single word about defense (which y'know, is HALF THE GAME).

Yeah, also it is difficult to have a debate when we give reasons and the answer is but "5 ppg" and laughable claims of Wade and Bosh "bailing" out LeBron. Wade himself is on pace to miss 25ish games.

I can certainly agree with QPR and can listen to arguments about this season being comparable with LeBron last year but that's not what deneem is saying.

+1
You could maybe debate RS this year versus Lebron last year. That I'd say is close, and would depend on how KD finishes and how you view the win streak last yr vs. the 25 point game streak. People forget fast how dominant Lebron was last year, and how amazing the W streak was. That's about the only debate to be had (and isn't finished if KD doesn't play at least as well as he has so far for the last few games, otherwise there's no debate there either).

Great point. I think this season from KD is definitely one for the history books and he has put himself already in the "top, peak-statistic seasons" conversation. As I keep on saying these are two generational talents and I enjoy watching them both but it is a little funny on the part of a few posters to say that this is already better than anything LeBron has done when you could lineup 3 season easily as Hibachi pointed out and could easily argue that those were better or at the very least similar.

Now when the day comes when KD has a definitive season better than any LeBron season, well I will be here and acknowledge that. That wouldn't take anything away from LeBron. Most would agree that LeBron is already a top 10 player and KD is on his way to top 15. With a few more accomplishments we could potentially be looking at two top 10 guys or even better playing in the same era. Simply amazing.

[bbms]

LeBron has 3 seasons (09, 10, 13) with a better PER than KD's current season and another one pretty much on the same level ('12). So no, KD hasn't topped LeBron's best season stat wise at all. In fact, what KD is doing right now 'statistically' would be LeBron's 4th best season.

Also, no one is undervaluing 5 ppg. You are just overvaluing it. On top of that, you haven't said a single word about defense (which y'know, is HALF THE GAME).

Is PER the end of the line here (stat-wise)?

[MisterHibachi]

LeBron has 3 seasons (09, 10, 13) with a better PER than KD's current season and another one pretty much on the same level ('12). So no, KD hasn't topped LeBron's best season stat wise at all. In fact, what KD is doing right now 'statistically' would be LeBron's 4th best season.

Also, no one is undervaluing 5 ppg. You are just overvaluing it. On top of that, you haven't said a single word about defense (which y'know, is HALF THE GAME).

Is PER the end of the line here (stat-wise)?

No. There are advanced stats. PER is just a good stat to measure basic box score statistics. Who was better, 25/5/5 or 18/8/8? There's gonna be disagreements there. But I usually find that PER is a good way to measure basic box scores and settle which stat line is better. The poster only mentioned ppg (a basic stat) so I kept to basic stats too.

[mswenson]

down 3 against the best team in the nba, durant shooting 30%. Yeah he has no help because the players around him are young excuse just doesn't work

[Hero]

LeBron has 3 seasons (09, 10, 13) with a better PER than KD's current season and another one pretty much on the same level ('12). So no, KD hasn't topped LeBron's best season stat wise at all. In fact, what KD is doing right now 'statistically' would be LeBron's 4th best season.

Also, no one is undervaluing 5 ppg. You are just overvaluing it. On top of that, you haven't said a single word about defense (which y'know, is HALF THE GAME).

Is PER the end of the line here (stat-wise)?

PER actually gives the advantage to KD since LeBron is vastly superior on the defensive side of things.

[QPR]

Not Durant's best night but really any win is just adding to an already overwhelming case, particularly as it was OKC's last chance to make a play for the #1 seed.

I think Leonard defends him better than anyone too.

[kingkirk]

Perhaps a crazy thought, but both Lebron and Durant have put up incredible seasons.

Shocking.

[bondom34]

Perhaps a crazy thought, but both Lebron and Durant have put up incredible seasons.

Shocking.

NO, MY FAVORITE IS BEST!!!!!