Worst GM according to ESPN?

Post #1 » by **theBigLip** » Thu Apr 3, 2014 4:20 pm

Joe Dumars

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/10711 ... executives

The Penguin · Post #2 » by **The Penguin** » Thu Apr 3, 2014 4:29 pm

Hammond is the 2nd worst. Quite a brain trust.

ImHeisenberg · Post #3 » by **ImHeisenberg** » Thu Apr 3, 2014 4:32 pm

Well, ESPN got that rating right!

I love that there's a significant rating disparity between Dumars and #2, Hammond.

The "brain trust" at ESPN recognizes that there's still a large gap between Dumars and the next worst guy.

I hope it brings a tear to Dumars' eye when he reads it.

Post #4 » by **theBigLip** » Thu Apr 3, 2014 4:34 pm

Ironically, we were at our best when Hammond was working with Dumars. Go figure???

wire28 · Post #5 » by **wire28** » Thu Apr 3, 2014 4:38 pm

espn has a hard on for the celtics, this and the other one about front office overall had the celtics in the top 10.

Post #6 » by **Timmaytime** » Thu Apr 3, 2014 4:41 pm

I'm still working under the assumption that Dumars got lucky.

"Who the hell is Ben Wallace? He's good? You promise? Okay here have Grant Hill"

"Rasheed Wallace? Well he's got the same last name as that other guy and Orlando said he was good, sure I'll trade for him"

"Everyone says I should hire Larry Brown as coach, even Larry Brown. I know I already have a good coach but everyone says this Brown guy is good, even himself"

Post #7 » by **theBigLip** » Thu Apr 3, 2014 4:44 pm

I'm surprised Danny Ferry wasn't rated higher. He jettisoned a lot of expensive crap off Atlanta's roster and still are on the verge of making the playoffs. They have good cap space and look to rebuild quickly.

triplet1984 · Post #8 » by **triplet1984** » Thu Apr 3, 2014 5:00 pm

Well deserved. 2009. 2013. 4 years apart, same trainwreck of an offseason.

Spider156 · Post #9 » by **Spider156** » Thu Apr 3, 2014 5:12 pm

LOL Goes from the best to the worst in a decade. I wonder what happened. :nonono:

Spider156 · Post #10 » by **Spider156** » Thu Apr 3, 2014 5:15 pm

I don't think Dumars got lucky 10 years ago. It was Larry Brown. Dumars found players that fit very well together talent wise. The coach made them great. So if Brown wasn't there, we wouldn't have been that good. I think they were good moves and the coach decision made them great.

jakebernat · Post #11 » by **jakebernat** » Thu Apr 3, 2014 5:59 pm

for someone who is completely against having a team built around a superstar, dumars has given out some horrible contracts to completely undeserving players.

MotownMadness · Post #12 » by **MotownMadness** » Thu Apr 3, 2014 6:04 pm

I was hoping Joe would get fired before he had a chance to spend money again but that didn't happen and here we are.

Q00 · Post #13 » by **Q00** » Thu Apr 3, 2014 8:33 pm

Timmaytime wrote:I'm still working under the assumption that Dumars got lucky.

"Who the hell is Ben Wallace? He's good? You promise? Okay here have Grant Hill"

"Rasheed Wallace? Well he's got the same last name as that other guy and Orlando said he was good, sure I'll trade for him"

"Everyone says I should hire Larry Brown as coach, even Larry Brown. I know I already have a good coach but everyone says this Brown guy is good, even himself"

He didn't get lucky. He had a HOF owner guiding him. Its no coincidence that the moment Mr D passed, a lot of his moves from then on have been poor.

You don't just go from being greatest GM in the league for the 2000s to one of the worst in the 2010s. That doesn't just happen. What happened was he went from having a HOF owner in the 00s to a lady with no business experience at all in Karen for 3 years after, and then a guy with no sports business experience in Gores for the past 3 years since.

Its also no coincidence that most of those GMs at the top of that list have owners who were at the top of the owners rankings too.

Joe is a good GM. He's not an owner though. And for the past 5-6 years he's basically been asked to do both, as the people who were supposed to be doing it have been absentees. I think they just put too much responsibility on him. Before, he had total faith/trust that Mr. D and Tom Wilson would keep the ship running smoothly, allowing him to just focus on basketball. Who knows what kind of setup they have going there now. I know Gores is never even there. What the heck does Dennis Mannion do?

So its not just Joe that changed. Its been a poorly run franchise above him for years now, and I'm not trying to make excuses for him, but its hard for any GM to succeed when the management above you is incompetent. Its just not the same franchise anymore.

ThirdMan · Post #14 » by **ThirdMan** » Thu Apr 3, 2014 9:00 pm

Joe got lucky but how does that translate to he sucks? You have to get lucky in this league especially when you are the GM of an undesirable location like Detroit. I think Joe tried to put together a complete team and didn't realize just how well they would fit. I know we're bitter but come on guys let's not remove all the context.

Sheeeeed · Post #15 » by **Sheeeeed** » Thu Apr 3, 2014 9:12 pm

Q00 wrote:He didn't get lucky. He had a HOF owner guiding him. Its no coincidence that the moment Mr D passed, a lot of his moves from then on have been poor.

Seems like a coincidence to me. All this was set in motion with the Billups/Iverson trade before Davidson died.

You don't just go from being greatest GM in the league for the 2000s to one of the worst in the 2010s. That doesn't just happen. What happened was he went from having a HOF owner in the 00s to a lady with no business experience at all in Karen for 3 years after, and then a guy with no sports business experience in Gores for the past 3 years since.

Oh it does happen. Theres always changes in sports, and if you can't identify those changes you're going to end up out of a job evidentially.

Its also no coincidence that most of those GMs at the top of that list have owners who were at the top of the owners rankings too.

Joe is a good GM. He's not an owner though. And for the past 5-6 years he's basically been asked to do both, as the people who were supposed to be doing it have been absentees. I think they just put too much responsibility on him. Before, he had total faith/trust that Mr. D and Tom Wilson would keep the ship running smoothly, allowing him to just focus on basketball. Who knows what kind of setup they have going there now. I know Gores is never even there. What the heck does Dennis Mannion do?

So its not just Joe that changed. Its been a poorly run franchise above him for years now, and I'm not trying to make excuses for him, but its hard for any GM to succeed when the management above you is incompetent. Its just not the same franchise anymore.

How exactly has Dumars been asked to be both GM/Owner? :lol:

MrBigShot · Post #16 » by **MrBigShot** » Thu Apr 3, 2014 9:41 pm

I don't think Joe got lucky, but ever since 2009 he's been truly...truly awful. The bright spots have been drafting Monroe/Drummond...and neither should have fell as far as they did. Signing BG/CV and then Smith/Jennings is inexcusable. He's not a good GM anymore.

Post #17 » by **theBigLip** » Thu Apr 3, 2014 10:11 pm

I think the problem has been hiring coaches. When we had Brown and Carlisle, both hard headed coaches that were backed by the GM, things went well. How many coaches have we had since then that are currently working as a head coach now?

Clarity · Post #18 » by **Clarity** » Thu Apr 3, 2014 10:34 pm

theBigLip wrote:I'm surprised Danny Ferry wasn't rated higher. He jettisoned a lot of expensive crap off Atlanta's roster and still are on the verge of making the playoffs. They have good cap space and look to rebuild quickly.

Him getting rid of Josh Smith should get him top 5 alone.

He's done a great job.

MrBigShot wrote:I don't think Joe got lucky, but ever since 2009 he's been truly...truly awful. The bright spots have been drafting Monroe/Drummond...and neither should have fell as far as they did. Signing BG/CV and then Smith/Jennings is inexcusable. He's not a good GM anymore.

Spot on

Q00 · Post #19 » by **Q00** » Thu Apr 3, 2014 10:55 pm

Sheeeeed wrote:
Q00 wrote:He didn't get lucky. He had a HOF owner guiding him. Its no coincidence that the moment Mr D passed, a lot of his moves from then on have been poor.

Seems like a coincidence to me. All this was set in motion with the Billups/Iverson trade before Davidson died.

You don't just go from being greatest GM in the league for the 2000s to one of the worst in the 2010s. That doesn't just happen. What happened was he went from having a HOF owner in the 00s to a lady with no business experience at all in Karen for 3 years after, and then a guy with no sports business experience in Gores for the past 3 years since.

Oh it does happen. Theres always changes in sports, and if you can't identify those changes you're going to end up out of a job evidentially.

Its also no coincidence that most of those GMs at the top of that list have owners who were at the top of the owners rankings too.

Joe is a good GM. He's not an owner though. And for the past 5-6 years he's basically been asked to do both, as the people who were supposed to be doing it have been absentees. I think they just put too much responsibility on him. Before, he had total faith/trust that Mr. D and Tom Wilson would keep the ship running smoothly, allowing him to just focus on basketball. Who knows what kind of setup they have going there now. I know Gores is never even there. What the heck does Dennis Mannion do?

So its not just Joe that changed. Its been a poorly run franchise above him for years now, and I'm not trying to make excuses for him, but its hard for any GM to succeed when the management above you is incompetent. Its just not the same franchise anymore.

How exactly has Dumars been asked to be both GM/Owner?

Davidson was practically on his death bed at the time of that trade, as he had been in declining health for a while before he died. He didn't just suddenly die one day out of the blue. So to imply Joe had the same HOF version of Davidson there at that time is a bit of a reach.

You bring up a good point though that Joe has actually been operating without a competent owner since even before Davidson died. As he had been sick for a while leading up to that.

If you don't think owners matter in sports, take a look at what happened in LA. Did Kupchak suddenly become a bad GM too after winning two championships, or did his HOF owner die and leave him to steer a rudderless ship?

At least Kupchak still has Jeanie Buss there on a daily basis to help him. Where's Joe's help from the top been? It certainly wasn't Karen for 3 years. Gores is never there. He leaves Joe there to do his job for him. The Pistons haven't had a real owner there on a daily basis for over 6 years now.

Joe Berry · Post #20 » by **Joe Berry** » Thu Apr 3, 2014 11:26 pm

Looking at that list, shouldn't Gores hire 2 new people a GM and a president of basketball operations? i mean it can't really hurt to have 2 main guys to handle the front office matters or does it? it seems like half the league has at least a duo in charge and ever since Dumars/Hammond broke up Dumars has been utterly terrible.

Anyway we all know Dumars should have been fired long ago. Why Gores retained him in that crucial offseason last summer is still mind-boggling to me. I am hoping we can get a guy like Kevin Pritchard, that would be great.