2014 Free Agency Thread

[Fred Williamson]

not a fan of Stephenson, at all

[jakenc]

I'm starting to cool off on Lance Stephenson as well. I'd still be good with signing him, but I don't think I'd give him that big of a contract, which he will inevitably demand. Also, if these Pacers locker room problems persist, how excited do you think Cho will be to chase after Lance? As a GM who so highly values character and has already orchestrated a wonderful culture change, I doubt he'd be willing to risk it on a non-star.

[Braggins]

The Pacers are a below average offensive team with Lance Stephenson. How much impact on that side of the floor do you guys really think he'll help the Hornets/Bobcats?

I'm sure this has nothing to do with George Hill and Hibbert.

[Braggins]

I don't think anyone is going to trade a bonafide all-star for MKG at this point which is why I think there is very little chance we trade him.

[dmutombo321]

I'm literally facepalming at people wanting to trade MKG for Doug Mcdermont and comparing him to Mbah a Moute... I'm getting the feeling some of you have no grasp whatsoever of the game of basketball and have no understanding of what you are watching. It is a good thing people like you aren't running this organization... We are talking about a second year player who was the youngest player in his draft class. You all act like hes been in the organization for five years and hasn't improved at all. He can't even legally drink and he is a top 10 defender and rebounder at his position with all kinds of athleticism and intangibles.

Its all comes down to by which point you expect a young player to show significant improvement. Year 3? Year 4?

You want to allow adequate time for development but the dilemma is that if you wait too long, the luster has worn off and their trade value is shot because the cat's out of the bag and everyone else in the league sees the same thing.

The aforementioned Derick Williams exemplifies this. There was also a time when the Warriors considered young Anthony Randolph untouchable...Food for thought.

And the Mbah a Moute comparison is spot on with respect to the similar impact he and MKG have on the game. Both are high level, physical defenders who are poor shooters and poor offensive contributors. Obviously MKG is much younger and has a higher ceiling as he is still developing but right now, thats the type of contribution he makes and if, for the sake of argument, you replaced MKG with a healthy Mbah a Moute on this years team, there would likely be little if any difference in our record.

[JDR720]

I would want Hayward over Lance i think he is a better fit

[Braggins]

I'm literally facepalming at people wanting to trade MKG for Doug Mcdermont and comparing him to Mbah a Moute... I'm getting the feeling some of you have no grasp whatsoever of the game of basketball and have no understanding of what you are watching. It is a good thing people like you aren't running this organization... We are talking about a second year player who was the youngest player in his draft class. You all act like hes been in the organization for five years and hasn't improved at all. He can't even legally drink and he is a top 10 defender and rebounder at his position with all kinds of athleticism and intangibles.

Its all comes down to by which point you expect a young player to show significant improvement. Year 3? Year 4?

You want to allow adequate time for development but the dilemma is that if you wait too long, the luster has worn off and their trade value is shot because the cat's out of the bag and everyone else in the league sees the same thing.

The aforementioned Derick Williams exemplifies this. There was also a time when the Warriors considered young Anthony Randolph untouchable...Food for thought.

And the Mbah a Moute comparison is spot on with respect to the similar impact he and MKG have on the game. Both are high level, physical defenders who are poor shooters and poor offensive contributors. Obviously MKG is much younger and has a higher ceiling as he is still developing but right now, thats the type of contribution he makes and if, for the sake of argument, you replaced MKG with a healthy Mbah a Moute on this years team, there would likely be little if any difference in our record.

Derrick Williams wasn't a starter on a playoff team with a top 10 defense at age 20. Derrick Williams doesn't have a true nba position. Derrick Williams got drafted by a team that had arguably the best player in the league at the position he has to play. Derrick Williams is looking a lot better now that he has had a chance to play. Derrick Williams situation is in no way comparable to MKG's situation.
I'm not even going to argue about Mbah a Moute. All your opinions are pretty much invalidated to me by what you just said.

[JDR720]

MKG should get longer to develop because he is so young he is just 20 and wont turn 21 until late September, most of players in this upcoming draft are older than he is

[dmutombo321]

I would want Hayward over Lance i think he is a better fit

I was real high on Hayward going into the season and expected his efficiency to dip on account of his having to take on an increased scoring load.

I'm concerned that it plummeted as badly as it did however. 41% FG% isnt the greatest and his 3 point shooting % is actually worse than even Hendo's this year believe it or not although hendo takes 2 less 3's per game.

Whether they pursue Lance or Gordon, while both will cost significant $, they need to be careful not to break the bank when bidding.

[JDR720]

I would want Hayward over Lance i think he is a better fit

I was real high on Hayward going into the season and expected his efficiency to dip on account of his having to take on an increased scoring load.

I'm concerned that it plummeted as badly as it did however. 41% FG% isnt the greatest and his 3 point shooting % is actually worse than even Hendo's this year believe it or not although hendo takes 2 less 3's per game.

Whether they pursue Lance or Gordon, while both will cost significant $, they need to be careful not to break the bank when bidding.

his shooting problems are mostly because he has had to be the #1 scoring option, put him on this team where he can be the 2nd or 3rd option he will shoot a lot better

[catch20two]

be careful what you wish for with lance. simmons makes some good points about him today in his mailbag.

I'm not as high on Lance as many others. All of his triple doubles look good on the surface but his advanced stats are blah average. I would definitely prefer him over Hendo but he's not the type of player I would break the bank over. He's slightly above average. His rebounds and assist numbers would be down playing for us.

What did Simmons say about him ?

Nothing too bad. He was just saying that 25% of the Pacers down spiral lately has been because they have become more dependent on Stephenson after all the all-star talk when he's not really equipped to be a player that a contending team lean on and how the Pacers were better when he was more of a secret weapon.

[Liver_Pooty]

Whats wrong with Kemba?

[Liver_Pooty]

Great charge taken by Zeller.

[dmutombo321]

I'm literally facepalming at people wanting to trade MKG for Doug Mcdermont and comparing him to Mbah a Moute... I'm getting the feeling some of you have no grasp whatsoever of the game of basketball and have no understanding of what you are watching. It is a good thing people like you aren't running this organization... We are talking about a second year player who was the youngest player in his draft class. You all act like hes been in the organization for five years and hasn't improved at all. He can't even legally drink and he is a top 10 defender and rebounder at his position with all kinds of athleticism and intangibles.

Its all comes down to by which point you expect a young player to show significant improvement. Year 3? Year 4?

You want to allow adequate time for development but the dilemma is that if you wait too long, the luster has worn off and their trade value is shot because the cat's out of the bag and everyone else in the league sees the same thing.

The aforementioned Derick Williams exemplifies this. There was also a time when the Warriors considered young Anthony Randolph untouchable...Food for thought.

And the Mbah a Moute comparison is spot on with respect to the similar impact he and MKG have on the game. Both are high level, physical defenders who are poor shooters and poor offensive contributors. Obviously MKG is much younger and has a higher ceiling as he is still developing but right now, thats the type of contribution he makes and if, for the sake of argument, you replaced MKG with a healthy Mbah a Moute on this years team, there would likely be little if any difference in our record.

I'm not even going to argue about Mbah a Moute. All your opinions are pretty much invalidated to me by what you just said.

Thats probably a good idea; best not to argue about the Mbah a Moute similarity because the facts arent in your favor. He's universally regarded as a gritty defender and when he logs minutes at SF his impact on the game is remarkably similar to what MKG is currently bringing to the table.

7.7 points / 5.3 rebounds / 51% FG in 23.5mpg : Mbah a Moute in his final season averaging over 23mpg with the bucks

7.3 points / 5.2 reounds / 46% FG in 24.6 minutes : Gilchrist

Is this to say that MKG will never be any better than a Luc Mbah a Moute or that anyone would prefer the older Mbah a Moute over MKG? No, of course not. But it is to say that this is the type of player MKG is now in terms of impact and will continue to be until such time he markedly improves his shot.

[dmutombo321]

I'm not as high on Lance as many others. All of his triple doubles look good on the surface but his advanced stats are blah average. I would definitely prefer him over Hendo but he's not the type of player I would break the bank over. He's slightly above average. His rebounds and assist numbers would be down playing for us.

What did Simmons say about him ?

Nothing too bad. He was just saying that 25% of the Pacers down spiral lately has been because they have become more dependent on Stephenson after all the all-star talk when he's not really equipped to be a player that a contending team lean on and how the Pacers were better when he was more of a secret weapon.

You still have to be concerned about Stephenson's maturity as well. That ejection after gloating in front of Wade could have cost them the Miami game the other week.

[dmutombo321]

I would want Hayward over Lance i think he is a better fit

I was real high on Hayward going into the season and expected his efficiency to dip on account of his having to take on an increased scoring load.

I'm concerned that it plummeted as badly as it did however. 41% FG% isnt the greatest and his 3 point shooting % is actually worse than even Hendo's this year believe it or not although hendo takes 2 less 3's per game.

Whether they pursue Lance or Gordon, while both will cost significant $, they need to be careful not to break the bank when bidding.

his shooting problems are mostly because he has had to be the #1 scoring option, put him on this team where he can be the 2nd or 3rd option he will shoot a lot better

Yeah, a reunion with Jefferson would do wonders for him. I wouldnt be opposed to either Gordo or Lance as an addition, as long as its at the right price.

[Braggins]

Its all comes down to by which point you expect a young player to show significant improvement. Year 3? Year 4?

You want to allow adequate time for development but the dilemma is that if you wait too long, the luster has worn off and their trade value is shot because the cat's out of the bag and everyone else in the league sees the same thing.

The aforementioned Derick Williams exemplifies this. There was also a time when the Warriors considered young Anthony Randolph untouchable...Food for thought.

And the Mbah a Moute comparison is spot on with respect to the similar impact he and MKG have on the game. Both are high level, physical defenders who are poor shooters and poor offensive contributors. Obviously MKG is much younger and has a higher ceiling as he is still developing but right now, thats the type of contribution he makes and if, for the sake of argument, you replaced MKG with a healthy Mbah a Moute on this years team, there would likely be little if any difference in our record.

I'm not even going to argue about Mbah a Moute. All your opinions are pretty much invalidated to me by what you just said.

Thats probably a good idea; best not to argue about the Mbah a Moute similarity because the facts arent in your favor. He's universally regarded as a gritty defender and when he logs minutes at SF his impact on the game is remarkably similar to what MKG is currently bringing to the table.

7.7 points / 5.3 rebounds / 51% FG in 23.5mpg : Mbah a Moute in his final season averaging over 23mpg with the bucks

7.3 points / 5.2 reounds / 46% FG in 24.6 minutes : Gilchrist

Is this to say that MKG will never be any better than a Luc Mbah a Moute or that anyone would prefer the older Mbah a Moute over MKG? No, of course not. But it is to say that this is the type of player MKG is now in terms of impact and will continue to be until such time he markedly improves his shot.

Right... Basketball = Points, rebounds, and FG%. Like I said. I'm not wasting any time arguing about a MKG/Mbah a Moute comparison so don't bother trying.

[catch20two]

What did Simmons say about him ?

Nothing too bad. He was just saying that 25% of the Pacers down spiral lately has been because they have become more dependent on Stephenson after all the all-star talk when he's not really equipped to be a player that a contending team lean on and how the Pacers were better when he was more of a secret weapon.

You still have to be concerned about Stephenson's maturity as well. That ejection after gloating in front of Wade could have cost them the Miami game the other week.

I'm very concerned with Stephenson's maturity. I feel like we can do without him unless we either get him on a bargain deal which is less than 8 mil per year and only 3 years. If we could do a sign and trade involving Hendo to relieve some cap space in case Stephenson blows that would be awesome as well.

[Elden Payton]

Sessions and Livingston are our best options imo.

As much as I don't like his hero ball antics, Sessions' value has been shown by having Ridnour replacing him.

I think Cho should maybe think about using our capspace to absorb a (short) contract+pick.

As nice as Stephenson or Hayward would be, there is no use killing our future flexibility for guys who aren't world beaters, when we could use our flexibility to gain assets on the teams entering act 2 of tankapalooza.

If we were still in the basement, I'd say that our FO should swing for the fences but we're not, it's a fine line between being a treadmill team and being on the bubble with upside.

Absorbing a bad contract for a pick is something a tanking team does. I think you've got it backwards. Were on the bubble with upside so we need to look for that final piece like a lance Stephenson. A bad contract and a pick is swinging for the fences more than offering an established talent a contract is.

No, absorbing contrats for picks or prospects is what a smart team does.

Delaying our cap space for a year whilst adding a solid vet and pick(s)/prospect(s) is something that many contending teams have done.

Using our cap space and future flexibility to overpay for a good player is a bad idea imo.

Trading Henderson+Haywood/Taylor+seconds to take on Bargnani's last year at 12m+Hardaway jr./Shumpert+first rounder or a similiar deal is a possibility with the new CBA.

Taking on a one year deal is smart considering how overrated this FA class is.

Use MLE type money to sign Sessions and use the mins to re-sign CDR/Tolliver/Adrien

Derrick Brown is also worthy of a shot again imo.

Kemba/Sessions/Lavine
Neal/Hardaway jr./Lavine
MKG/CDR/Tolliver
McRoberts/Zeller/Bargnani
Jefferson/Biyombo/Haywood

[Liver_Pooty]

Sessions and Livingston are our best options imo.

As much as I don't like his hero ball antics, Sessions' value has been shown by having Ridnour replacing him.

I think Cho should maybe think about using our capspace to absorb a (short) contract+pick.

As nice as Stephenson or Hayward would be, there is no use killing our future flexibility for guys who aren't world beaters, when we could use our flexibility to gain assets on the teams entering act 2 of tankapalooza.

If we were still in the basement, I'd say that our FO should swing for the fences but we're not, it's a fine line between being a treadmill team and being on the bubble with upside.

Absorbing a bad contract for a pick is something a tanking team does. I think you've got it backwards. Were on the bubble with upside so we need to look for that final piece like a lance Stephenson. A bad contract and a pick is swinging for the fences more than offering an established talent a contract is.

No, absorbing contrats for picks or prospects is what a smart team does.

Delaying our cap space for a year whilst adding a solid vet and pick(s)/prospect(s) is something that many contending teams have done.

Using our cap space and future flexibility to overpay for a good player is a bad idea imo.

Trading Henderson+Haywood/Taylor+seconds to take on Bargnani's last year at 12m+Hardaway jr./Shumpert+first rounder or a similiar deal is a possibility with the new CBA.

Taking on a one year deal is smart considering how overrated this FA class is.

Use MLE type money to sign Sessions and use the mins to re-sign CDR/Tolliver/Adrien

Derrick Brown is also worthy of a shot again imo.

Kemba/Sessions/Lavine
Neal/Hardaway jr./Lavine
MKG/CDR/Tolliver
McRoberts/Zeller/Bargnani
Jefferson/Biyombo/Haywood

If we do absorb another bad contract for a pick like we did Gordon I at least hope that it is someone that can contribute in some facet of the game and not just get paid 8 figures to ride the bench. Expiring contracts aren't valuable at all trade wise in the new CBA.