Countdown to Ernie Grunfeld Firing (Part 2)

TGW · Post #601 » by **TGW** » Wed Apr 9, 2014 9:28 pm

Zards...we can look at your past posts, and see that you are one of those people that would have done better than EG.

You would have taken Wall. Check.

You would have taken Beal. Check.

You would have taken Khari Leonard. Check.

That in itself already qualifies as making better decisions than Grunfeld.

hands11 · Post #602 » by **hands11** » Wed Apr 9, 2014 10:04 pm

verbal8 wrote:
Kanyewest wrote:
montestewart wrote:What's really fascinating is watching the downward trajectory of EG defenses, from "He's good," to "He's above average," to "He's not below average," to "He's not the worst in the league," and finally settling for: "He's better than Joe Schmo off the street," itself a debatable contention.

I think the comment of "Do you think you would do a much better job as a GM than EG" also implies "do you think you would be an above average GM". I think there are a fair share of posters that could have gotten the Wizards to their destination faster (ie in the playoffs) - although I'm not sure that we would be championship quality.

Even with hindsight, it becomes clear that building a championship team is hard. Say a competent GM had drafted Curry in 2009. As a rookie he may not have been enough to make the play-offs, but he probably would have kept the Wizards from the being bad enough to get John Wall. Especially if Blair had been selected in the same draft. Say the Wizards get Monroe out of that draft. With competent moves in Free agency/extensions a good GM probably has the team close to the play-offs. Let's say the team ends up with Faried and a depth player like Lavoy Allen from that draft. The team is probably in the play-offs a couple years earlier and may have the chance to add a solid player like Sullinger, but they aren't getting a prospect like Beal. There wasn't a whole lot of late 2nd rounders in 2012 other than Kyle O'Quinn.

In 2013 the team would probably get a guy like Snell, Dieng or Plumlee - since they would be some immediate value. Let's say the pick is Snell.

So the core of the team would be Curry, Monroe and Faried. Sullinger, Snell and Allen would be some young quality depth. That is a decent team, but it doesn't look in any danger of winning a championship. Of course there are also trades and free agency, so a good GM could add a couple good pieces to that group.

DCZards · Post #603 » by **DCZards** » Wed Apr 9, 2014 11:02 pm

TGW wrote:Zards...we can look at your past posts, and see that you are one of those people that would have done better than EG.

You would have taken Wall. Check.

You would have taken Beal. Check.

You would have taken Khari Leonard. Check.

That in itself already qualifies as making better decisions than Grunfeld.

All true...but I would have made at least one significant mistake that EG made...trading the fifth pick for Foye and Miller. I thought at the time that that was a good trade, given the makeup of the team with the Big Three of Caron, Jamison and Gil, and the Zards desire, especially Abe Pollin, to win now. But things fell apart, mostly due to Gil's injury, so that trade turned out to be a major mistake.

As for Beal, yeah I wanted him, wanted him bad. I thought he and Wall would eventually become a spectacular backcourt, one of the best in the NBA...and I still feel that way. But I also said before that draft that I thought Drummond could turn out to be the best player in it. But, probably like some NBA GMs who passed on him, I was unsure of Drummond's work ethic and his willingness to play hard all the time.

Well, it's clear that A. Davis is going to be the best player from that 2012 draft, but Andre the Giant looks like he's going to be a close second. Drummond sure would look good in a Zards uni. Dumb EG.

Post #604 » by **montestewart** » Wed Apr 9, 2014 11:08 pm

DCZards wrote:
TGW wrote:Zards...we can look at your past posts, and see that you are one of those people that would have done better than EG.

You would have taken Wall. Check.

You would have taken Beal. Check.

You would have taken Khari Leonard. Check.

That in itself already qualifies as making better decisions than Grunfeld.

All true...but I would have made at least one significant mistake that EG made...trading the fifth pick for Foye and Miller. I thought at the time that that was a good trade, given the makeup of the team with the Big Three of Caron, Jamison and Gil, and the Zards desire, especially Abe Pollin, to win now. But things fell apart, mostly due to Gil's injury, so that trade turned out to be a major mistake.

As for Beal, yeah I wanted him, wanted him bad. I thought he and Wall would eventually become a spectacular backcourt, one of the best in the NBA...and I still feel that way. But I also said before that draft that I thought Drummond could turn out to be the best player in it. But, probably like some NBA GMs who passed on him, I was unsure of Drummond's work ethic and his willingness to play hard all the time.

Well, while it's clear that A. Davis is going to be the best player from that 2012 draft, Andre the Giant looks like he's going to be a close second. Drummond sure would look good in a Zards uni. Dumb EG.

So far you're still one up on EG.

Post #605 » by **miller31time** » Thu Apr 10, 2014 1:34 am

A capped out Wizards team in a historically weak Eastern Conference is now 7th and falling.

Extensions for everyone!

dckingsfan · Post #606 » by **dckingsfan** » Thu Apr 10, 2014 1:41 am

miller31time wrote:A capped out Wizards team in a historically weak Eastern Conference is now 7th and falling.

Extensions for everyone!

Yep, the thought that EG and Wittman are coming back... unbelievable...

Youheardme90 · Post #607 » by **Youheardme90** » Thu Apr 10, 2014 2:26 am

montestewart wrote:
hands11 wrote:
Youheardme90 wrote:No BS, No games, No Shortcuts, do you think you could do or could`ve done a better job than Ernie Grunfeld has done up to this point in his tenure ?

Softball lobbed over center plate.

But isn't this what gets discussed on a regular basis here.

Youheardme90 just arrived here after a long trip. All this EG business is brand new.

Well, technically I`ve been reading these boards for 8 years. I had another account but I never posted as much with it, and eventually I forgot the name :lol:

So, I just made a new one.

Post #608 » by **pineappleheadindc** » Thu Apr 10, 2014 2:27 am

dckingsfan wrote:
miller31time wrote:A capped out Wizards team in a historically weak Eastern Conference is now 7th and falling.

Extensions for everyone!

Yep, the thought that EG and Wittman are coming back... unbelievable...

Yay us!

When this board figures out that EG and Witt are not going anywhere, I'm gonna buy stock in liquor companies. There will be massive drinking ahead.

Post #609 » by **montestewart** » Thu Apr 10, 2014 2:32 am

miller31time wrote:A capped out Wizards team in a historically weak Eastern Conference is now 7th and falling.

Extensions for everyone!

Look, I've explained this before in another thread a long time ago for a very long time over and over, it's exactly as Ded explained over in Ted Steak numerous times all a long since the beginning. THIS WILL NOT HAPPEN AT NIGHT! Last year, the team too a big step forward, faghting for 9th seed for the first time in a long. This year, 7th, maybe 8th seed, probably swept in the first round. They will talk their lumbs this year, but then:
2015: maybe 6th or 7th weed, take the series to six or maybe seven gems
2016: 5th or 6th weed, make it tooth second round, maybe take one game before exiting
2017: 4th or 5th weed, advance to second round, take series to sex games before exiting
2018: 3rd or 4th weed, advance to second round, take series to a seven games before exiting
2019: 2nd or 3rd weed, advance to second round, take series to a seven games before exiting
2020: 2nd weed, advice through first to arounds, sweat in ECF
2021: 1st or 2nd weed, advance through first and second round, win one in ECF
2022: 1st weed, advance to ECF, take the series to seven games before existing
2023: 1st weed, win ECF, swept in filials
2024: 1st weed, win ECF, win one in finials
2025: 1st weed, win ECF, take finals to six games
2026: 1st weed, win ECF, take finals to severin games
2027: 2nd weed (starting toofad, but not to late), win NBA championhips. Man, will EG be happy!

You see, it's pretty much just like I explained, by Ted's calculations, according to plan, each year the team will get incremationally better, and learn a little something a long the way. I'd start planning for that big 2027 celebration right now. It's going to be quite a puberty.

Post #610 » by **montestewart** » Thu Apr 10, 2014 2:34 am

Youheardme90 wrote:
montestewart wrote:Youheardme90 just arrived here after a long trip. All this EG business is brand new.

Well, technically I`ve been reading these boards for 8 years. I had another account but I never posted as much with it, and eventually I forgot the name

So, I just made a new one.

There was this guy, Youheardme80. Any relation?

Post #611 » by **pineappleheadindc** » Thu Apr 10, 2014 2:40 am

montestewart wrote:
miller31time wrote:A capped out Wizards team in a historically weak Eastern Conference is now 7th and falling.

Extensions for everyone!

Look, I've explained this before in another thread a long time ago for a very long time over and over, it's exactly as Ded explained over in Ted Steak numerous times all a long since the beginning. THIS WILL NOT HAPPEN AT NIGHT! Last year, the team too a big step forward, faghting for 9th seed for the first time in a long. This year, 7th, maybe 8th seed, probably swept in the first round. They will talk their lumbs this year, but then:
2015: maybe 6th or 7th weed, take the series to six or maybe seven gems
2016: 5th or 6th weed, make it tooth second round, maybe take one game before exiting
2017: 4th or 5th weed, advance to second round, take series to sex games before exiting
2018: 3rd or 4th weed, advance to second round, take series to a seven games before exiting
2019: 2nd or 3rd weed, advance to second round, take series to a seven games before exiting
2020: 2nd weed, advice through first to arounds, sweat in ECF
2021: 1st or 2nd weed, advance through first and second round, win one in ECF
2022: 1st weed, advance to ECF, take the series to seven games before existing
2023: 1st weed, win ECF, swept in filials
2024: 1st weed, win ECF, win one in finials
2025: 1st weed, win ECF, take finals to six games
2026: 1st weed, win ECF, take finals to severin games
2027: 2nd weed (starting toofad, but not to late), win NBA championhips. Man, will EG be happy!

You see, it's pretty much just like I explained, by Ted's calculations, according to plan, each year the team will get incremationally better, and learn a little something a long the way. I'd start planning for that big 2027 celebration right now. It's going to be quite a puberty.

LOL....Monte, this post (above) is Hall of Fame material.

(And just in case you were serious, spelling and all, I'll have what you're having).

:-)

Post #612 » by **miller31time** » Thu Apr 10, 2014 2:45 am

pineappleheadindc wrote:
montestewart wrote:
miller31time wrote:A capped out Wizards team in a historically weak Eastern Conference is now 7th and falling.

Extensions for everyone!

Look, I've explained this before in another thread a long time ago for a very long time over and over, it's exactly as Ded explained over in Ted Steak numerous times all a long since the beginning. THIS WILL NOT HAPPEN AT NIGHT! Last year, the team too a big step forward, faghting for 9th seed for the first time in a long. This year, 7th, maybe 8th seed, probably swept in the first round. They will talk their lumbs this year, but then:
2015: maybe 6th or 7th weed, take the series to six or maybe seven gems
2016: 5th or 6th weed, make it tooth second round, maybe take one game before exiting
2017: 4th or 5th weed, advance to second round, take series to sex games before exiting
2018: 3rd or 4th weed, advance to second round, take series to a seven games before exiting
2019: 2nd or 3rd weed, advance to second round, take series to a seven games before exiting
2020: 2nd weed, advice through first to arounds, sweat in ECF
2021: 1st or 2nd weed, advance through first and second round, win one in ECF
2022: 1st weed, advance to ECF, take the series to seven games before existing
2023: 1st weed, win ECF, swept in filials
2024: 1st weed, win ECF, win one in finials
2025: 1st weed, win ECF, take finals to six games
2026: 1st weed, win ECF, take finals to severin games
2027: 2nd weed (starting toofad, but not to late), win NBA championhips. Man, will EG be happy!

You see, it's pretty much just like I explained, by Ted's calculations, according to plan, each year the team will get incremationally better, and learn a little something a long the way. I'd start planning for that big 2027 celebration right now. It's going to be quite a puberty.

LOL....Monte, this post (above) is Hall of Fame material.

(And just in case you were serious, spelling and all, I'll have what you're having).

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. hands would be proud. He even said so last year. Told us all about it.

Post #613 » by **pineappleheadindc** » Thu Apr 10, 2014 2:50 am

I absolutely lost it at "It's going to be quite a puberty."

miller, you need to drop Monte's post into the Hall of Fame.

P.S. I hate when the Wizards "loose".

dckingsfan · Post #614 » by **dckingsfan** » Thu Apr 10, 2014 3:19 am

OMG - that was way too funny - not depressed any longer.

noworriesinmd · Post #615 » by **noworriesinmd** » Thu Apr 10, 2014 6:04 am

too funny!

2017: 4th or 5th weed, advance to second round, take series to sex games before exiting

gtn130 · Post #616 » by **gtn130** » Thu Apr 10, 2014 6:37 am

That was an awesome post

DaRealHibachi · Post #617 » by **DaRealHibachi** » Thu Apr 10, 2014 11:30 am

Stop that sh*t right now Monte!! :lol:

leswizards · Post #618 » by **leswizards** » Thu Apr 10, 2014 12:47 pm

hands11 wrote:No Clogs. Its isn't and I explained why. Now if you want to ignore the facts and use your over simplified single data point, well then go ahead. But it hardly paints an accurate picture because it ignores all the most relevant information.

Considering that Charlotte has had multiple GMs with the most recent GM only taking over in the last year or so, while EG has been GM for around a decade or, you don't paint an entirely accurate picture either.

verbal8 · Post #619 » by **verbal8** » Thu Apr 10, 2014 12:49 pm

leswizards wrote:
hands11 wrote:No Clogs. Its isn't and I explained why. Now if you want to ignore the facts and use your over simplified single data point, well then go ahead. But it hardly paints an accurate picture because it ignores all the most relevant information.

Considering that Charlotte has had multiple GMs with the most recent GM only taking over in the last year or so, while EG has been GM for around a decade or, you don't paint an entirely accurate picture either.

It usually is a "team" effort to "accomplish" what EG has during his tenure.

leswizards · Post #620 » by **leswizards** » Thu Apr 10, 2014 12:52 pm

hands11 wrote:They still think Gortat for a mid first was to much. I disagree. Gortat has been amazingly valuable.

I have said it before, and I will say it again. There were 2 possibilities.

The first possibility is that the Wizards would not have made the playoffs without the Gortat trade. In that case, the Wizards traded what would have been a mid lottery pick in an extremely deep draft for a 1 year rental of a player who has helped them get what is currently the 7th seed in the playoffs. In that scenario, I can understand why some people might think the trade is worth it, as a playoff season is more enjoyable than a non playoff season, but to me, the cost is not worth it. I would rather have the long term asset.

The second possibility is the Wizards would have made the playoffs regardless of whether they traded for Gortat or not. In that case, the trade clearly was not worth it, as the Gortat trade really has added almost no value.

All things considered, I would have rather kept the first.

IS IT TIME TO FIRE ERNIE GRUNFELD?