OT: Is Dirk top 12 of all time??

MaseInYourFace · Post #41 » by **MaseInYourFace** » Fri Apr 11, 2014 4:14 pm

I feel like Isiah always gets underrated now because of what he's done post playing career. People need to look over his career again.

Fury · Post #42 » by **Fury** » Fri Apr 11, 2014 4:14 pm

kane2021 wrote:Amazing how much winning one ring changes peoples perception of a player.

It's true but he was in rap god mode so he deserves it.

MaseInYourFace · Post #43 » by **MaseInYourFace** » Fri Apr 11, 2014 4:17 pm

Fury wrote:Dirk is better than Karl Malone IMO. He's only behind duncan and Barkley and kg at pf.

Karl Malone is arguably the greatest PF of all time. If he had won a title no one would dispute it. He was definitely better than Barkley.

gavran · Post #44 » by **gavran** » Fri Apr 11, 2014 4:33 pm

MaseInYourFace wrote:
Fury wrote:Dirk is better than Karl Malone IMO. He's only behind duncan and Barkley and kg at pf.

Karl Malone is arguably the greatest PF of all time. If he had won a title no one would dispute it. He was definitely better than Barkley.

Even if Malone had won 2, he'd still be far behind Duncan on that list.

Post #45 » by **moocow007** » Fri Apr 11, 2014 4:37 pm

Knickstape1214 wrote:
RHODEY wrote:
Meloholic wrote:

When you say scorer look who he is going up against...

Jordan, Wilt, Kareem, Durant (4 time champion), Kobe, etc.

His Career was curtailed due to injury but no one listed above out side of Jordan (and Wilt under different rules) averaged 33pts for a season @ %53 shooting clip. Durant comes close in this era , when you cant even sneeze on a player. I put Bernard over Pippen who was indeed a great two way player.

The 53% year was only 55 games. I'm more impressed by what he did the year before, to be honest. 26 PPG on 57% shooting? WTF? But damn, he only scored. Rebounding? Assist numbers were nothing great. Steals / blocks were meh. He also turned the ball over a bunch.

I never saw BK play besides on NBATV Hardwood Classics games, but I think LeBron (present day version) and KD are more well rounded in terms of scoring.

King was a SF that the Knicks had no real choice but to ask to carry a Carmelo Anthony like load offensively so his rebounding and assist numbers are understandable. He got injured during that 32ppg season so not sure that that can be discounted. He wasn't slowing down at all and would likely have ended the season right around that average. He was pretty much unstoppable when he had the ball in his hands. Baseline drives, turn around jumpers, bullying his way into the basket. A very physical player that was fearless despite opposing teams hitting him and banging him to try to throw his game off. Is King top 15? I don't know about that. Definitely top 10 in terms of offensives ability.

MaseInYourFace · Post #46 » by **MaseInYourFace** » Fri Apr 11, 2014 4:39 pm

gavran wrote:
MaseInYourFace wrote:
Fury wrote:Dirk is better than Karl Malone IMO. He's only behind duncan and Barkley and kg at pf.

Karl Malone is arguably the greatest PF of all time. If he had won a title no one would dispute it. He was definitely better than Barkley.

Even if Malone had won 2, he'd still be far behind Duncan on that list.

Behind? Arguable

Far behind? Your selling him way short. You need to look over his career again.

Post #47 » by **moocow007** » Fri Apr 11, 2014 4:40 pm

MaseInYourFace wrote:I feel like Isiah always gets underrated now because of what he's done post playing career. People need to look over his career again.

Pretty much.

Fury · Post #48 » by **Fury** » Fri Apr 11, 2014 4:51 pm

MaseInYourFace wrote:
Fury wrote:Dirk is better than Karl Malone IMO. He's only behind duncan and Barkley and kg at pf.

Karl Malone is arguably the greatest PF of all time. If he had won a title no one would dispute it. He was definitely better than Barkley.

He's overrated. Big time choker, lived off pick and roll dishes from Stockton.

Post #49 » by **moocow007** » Fri Apr 11, 2014 5:03 pm

I'll probably go with these guys as my top 15 all-time is

1. Michael Jordan
2. Wilt Chamberlain
3. Bill Russell
4. Kareem Abdul Jabbar
5. Oscar Roberston
6. Elgin Baylor
7. Bob Pettit
8. Larry Bird
9. Magic Johnson
10. Jerry West
11. Shaquile Oneal
12. Hakeem Olajuwon
13. Lebron James
14. Julius Erving
15. Charles Barkley

Yes, yes, boo on Lebron James but if you put James numbers and wins against any of these guys on the list, he belongs. His 840 games and over 33,000 minutes played would put him in the pack of the current list of guys who are in the last official "top 50" poll so I don't buy the "he hasn't played enough" argument that some will have. With a 25.1ppg, 6.6rpg, 6.3apg, 1.6spg at near 50% from the field...and career winning percentage in the .640 range. If we are talking Duncan and Nowitzki, we should be talking James.

Duncan and Nowitzki IMO would be in the 16-25 range along with guys like George Gervin, Bob Cousy, David Robinson, Rick Barry, Isiah Thomas, etc.

Guys like Bill Walton, George Mikan and even Bernard King were game changing type players during their prime but just did not have long enough careers to really make the type of impact in terms of the all time greats that they probably could have been.

A guy like Durant will also likely cement himself as one of the all time greats by the end assuming he can remain healthy.

kNiCk_PriDe · Post #50 » by **kNiCk_PriDe** » Fri Apr 11, 2014 5:12 pm

All I'm gonna say is that Shaq would eat Wilt for breakfast.

Post #51 » by **moocow007** » Fri Apr 11, 2014 5:13 pm

kNiCk_PriDe wrote:All I'm gonna say is that Shaq would eat Wilt for breakfast.

You can also say that Shaq would eat Russell (who was only 6'9" and about 225lbs) for lunch as well. So why didn't you? If we were basing things purely on physicality and athleticism then Lebron James would be right near the top of the list cause players in the modern era have clear clear advantages over the old time players and James is the embodiment of physical prowess in a basketball player. Should he be?

gavran · Post #52 » by **gavran** » Fri Apr 11, 2014 5:13 pm

Duncan in the 16-25 range? On what planet isn't Duncan in the top 10 of all time? What is happening in this thread? Barkley? Seriously? Charles Barkley? The guy with less defense than rings?

thebuzzardman · Post #53 » by **thebuzzardman** » Fri Apr 11, 2014 5:14 pm

If we are thinking about what defense means, the McHales is YEARS better than Dirk. He may have been the best PF defender ever. Could guard 4/5 positions, no lie.

Post #54 » by **moocow007** » Fri Apr 11, 2014 5:17 pm

gavran wrote:Duncan in the 16-25 range? On what planet isn't Duncan in the top 10 of all time? What is happening in this thread? Barkley? Seriously? Charles Barkley? The guy with less defense than rings?

Barkley wasn't in my top 10 so why not try to argue why he would deserve being in the top 10 of the list you are pointing at.

Post #55 » by **moocow007** » Fri Apr 11, 2014 5:21 pm

thebuzzardman wrote:If we are thinking about what defense means, the McHales is YEARS better than Dirk. He may have been the best PF defender ever. Could guard 4/5 positions, no lie.

Definitely since Nowitzki is an average defender at best. But as an overall player Nowitzki would need to be compared to the top offensive players in history. Definitely not top 15...not just for his defense but just overall.

gavran · Post #56 » by **gavran** » Fri Apr 11, 2014 5:27 pm

moocow007 wrote:
gavran wrote:Duncan in the 16-25 range? On what planet isn't Duncan in the top 10 of all time? What is happening in this thread? Barkley? Seriously? Charles Barkley? The guy with less defense than rings?

Barkley wasn't in my top 10 so why not try to argue why he would deserve being in the top 10 of the list you are pointing at.

What? I'm arguing that Barkley is ahead of Duncan on your list, which is a joke.

Post #57 » by **moocow007** » Fri Apr 11, 2014 5:35 pm

gavran wrote:
moocow007 wrote:
gavran wrote:Duncan in the 16-25 range? On what planet isn't Duncan in the top 10 of all time? What is happening in this thread? Barkley? Seriously? Charles Barkley? The guy with less defense than rings?

Barkley wasn't in my top 10 so why not try to argue why he would deserve being in the top 10 of the list you are pointing at.

What? I'm arguing that Barkley is ahead of Duncan on your list, which is a joke.

? You pointed to Barkley and then said Duncan should be in the top 10. Barkely barely made my top 15. Duncan is right in the next group.

MaseInYourFace · Post #58 » by **MaseInYourFace** » Fri Apr 11, 2014 5:35 pm

Fury wrote:
MaseInYourFace wrote:
Fury wrote:Dirk is better than Karl Malone IMO. He's only behind duncan and Barkley and kg at pf.

Karl Malone is arguably the greatest PF of all time. If he had won a title no one would dispute it. He was definitely better than Barkley.

He's overrated. Big time choker, lived off pick and roll dishes from Stockton.

I have to disagree. Malone was an underrated defender and passer as well an all time great scorer and rebounder.

Post #59 » by **moocow007** » Fri Apr 11, 2014 5:37 pm

MaseInYourFace wrote:
Fury wrote:
MaseInYourFace wrote:
Karl Malone is arguably the greatest PF of all time. If he had won a title no one would dispute it. He was definitely better than Barkley.

He's overrated. Big time choker, lived off pick and roll dishes from Stockton.

I have to disagree. Malone was an underrated defender and passer as well an all time great scorer and rebounder.

Yeah I think Malone is hurt by association with Stockton and not winning any titles in the eyes of a lot of folks. For me it was a toss up between Malone and Barkley could have gone either way. Agreed, he was a solid defender and worked real well in the system Sloan had in Utah. Have to wonder though how much better Barkley may have done had he had a PG like Stockton and operating in that system during his prime. Yes, he did have KJ but not quite the same.

MaseInYourFace · Post #60 » by **MaseInYourFace** » Fri Apr 11, 2014 5:37 pm

moocow007 wrote:I'll probably go with these guys as my top 15 all-time is

1. Michael Jordan
2. Wilt Chamberlain
3. Bill Russell
4. Kareem Abdul Jabbar
5. Oscar Roberston
6. Elgin Baylor
7. Bob Pettit
8. Larry Bird
9. Magic Johnson
10. Jerry West
11. Shaquile Oneal
12. Hakeem Olajuwon
13. Lebron James
14. Julius Erving
15. Charles Barkley

Yes, yes, boo on Lebron James but if you put James numbers and wins against any of these guys on the list, he belongs. His 840 games and over 33,000 minutes played would put him in the pack of the current list of guys who are in the last official "top 50" poll so I don't buy the "he hasn't played enough" argument that some will have. With a 25.1ppg, 6.6rpg, 6.3apg, 1.6spg at near 50% from the field...and career winning percentage in the .640 range. If we are talking Duncan and Nowitzki, we should be talking James.

Duncan and Nowitzki IMO would be in the 16-25 range along with guys like George Gervin, Bob Cousy, David Robinson, Rick Barry, Isiah Thomas, etc.

Guys like Bill Walton, George Mikan and even Bernard King were game changing type players during their prime but just did not have long enough careers to really make the type of impact in terms of the all time greats that they probably could have been.

A guy like Durant will also likely cement himself as one of the all time greats by the end assuming he can remain healthy.

I like your list but Duncan and Malone are better overall players than Barkley.