Bad Boys vs '04

[Redeemed]

The Palace Guards (Zeke, Joe, and Microwave) would give the 04 backcourt the blues. If you can't hand check guards who played during the handchecking era and excelled, you can't stop them under the 04 rules. Joe and Rip would not be even. Joe guarded Jordan, Drexler, Reggie Lewis, Reggie Miller, Mitch Richmond, Latrell Sprewell and a whole host of other cats in their prime. I've got him handling Rip.

Laimbeer was physical and smart. He dominated the whole Blazers team with mindgames. He would be a problem for the 04 frontline. Rodman guarded all five positions. Budda was buckets. The fadeway was set to auto.

Looking at those two teams wow! The Bad Boys were a bogus call and a busted ankle away from three peating. They should have won that first title against LA. The Goin to Work team was a failed rotation (and poor draft decision) from winning back to back.

[hoophabit]

Honestly, I get a kick out of people talking about how the BB would all be promptly fouled out. Look, these guys weren't stupid, and played according to the league as it was when they played. Thanks to Phil and Michael's constant lobbying for competitive advantage they were smeared with this "thug" label. Yes, they were physical, which you had to be to compete in those days. Few mention Isaiah getting cut by Karl Malone, or again by Bill Cartwright (of the Bulls) who was known for his "sharp elbows." They really weren't much different than other teams of the day, other than they were in the way of the anointed one's ascendance.

Sheed and Aguirre would not have been a matchup. Aguirre was the starting SF and except in a switch wouldn't have been on one another.

Ben Wallace overpowering Laimbeer? You're kidding, right? The point made above about how Bill could score from anywhere on the floor is well taken.

Also well taken is the question of what Isaiah would have done under the no hand check/holding rules. "Pocket Magic" would have been just that much more incredible.

Both these teams played a more physical brand of basketball than is played today. A conspiracy theorist might wonder that the rules were changed right after both Detroit championship teams, but I'm sure it's just coincidence.

[Uncle Mxy]

Do we count Adrian Dantley as a Bad Boy? If so, there's really no contest.

And of course -- the real game changer is Fennis Dembo vs. Darko Milicic. Fennis wins this one simply by not getting his hand broken in garbage minutes,.

And I'd take John Long or Micheal Williams over starvin Darvin Ham any day!

[hoophabit]

Do we count Adrian Dantley as a Bad Boy? If so, there's really no contest.

And of course -- the real game changer is Fennis Dembo vs. Darko Milicic. Fennis wins this one simply by not getting his hand broken in garbage minutes,.

And I'd take John Long or Micheal Williams over starvin Darvin Ham any day!

I had to and1 this, laughed out loud!

Good question though about Dantley. I'm not sure they really improved with the trade, and it might have been IT looking out for a buddy. Aguirre was a good player as well, and the results were fine so maybe it was a question of team chemistry? Tough break for Dantley, who was one of those smaller guys who can score close to the basket really well.

[Lionlifer]

Zeke would give the 04 boys nightmares. He was just that good, and without hand checking, lookout.

Rodman and Laimbeer can bang and rebound with the best of them. They were both smart players that could adjust to the rules as needed.

Factor in Joe too, and how good he was, Bad Boys in 5 or 6.

I actually think the game would be closer if the early 89-90 rules were used as the 04 team would have some size advantages they might be able to use. The 04 team was always a bit of a throwback team to me.

[paQo the BAWSER]

I think there is no chance the Bad Boys would win this because the 3pt.

[ThirdMan]

Billups did struggle with quicker guards like Zeke too. Then again Billups would be able to back down and post up Zeke.

[tmorgan]

If the 04 team tried to post Chauncey on Zeke, the Bad Boys would just switch up and put Joe D or Vinny on Billups. Isiah would probably be better off guarding Rip anyway, although he'd need more rest at the end of quarters. 04 has no one to guard Isiah, no one to contain Rodman's rebounds, and less offensive ability without any real defensive advantage outside of Sheed and Ben, both of whom end up in bad matchups.

I can't see 04 beating 89/90. The only real advantage the 04 team would have is athleticism up front, and that's only from the starters, as Salley and Rodman would run right by Memo and Corliss. Big Ben would dominate the glass, but he wouldn't take Laimbeer out of his game unless he vacated the paint, which wouldn't happen. A motivated Sheed might also dominate Mahorn, but you KNOW Sheed wouldn't post in that situation, as he'd be afraid of getting his ribs broken. Heck, he might get some broken bones just trying to play post DEFENSE.

Bad Boys in 5 or 6.

[paQo the BAWSER]

Everybody's talking of match-ups position by position, but I think Wallace would defends Laimbeer and Big Ben Rodman. I think Big Ben could go down the rebounds impact of Rodman.

With the current rules, like I said it, Zeke would be the main differential factor in these imaginary series, but the 3pt is probably a most important factor.

I think the 04 defense was better, imagine if they had been able to hit as hard as the Bad Boys with the 80/90 rules. Probably nobody in the NBA history had been able to finish at the rim with Ben Wallace there, because they didn't use the 3pt and the game was tighter. (I know there was 3pt line, but they almost didn't take it)

Bad Boys were one of the greatest team ever, but like always, the nostalgia is stronger than the common sense.

[hoophabit]

Everybody's talking of match-ups position by position, but I think Wallace would defends Laimbeer and Big Ben Rodman. I think Big Ben could go down the rebounds impact of Rodman.

With the current rules, like I said it, Zeke would be the main differential factor in these imaginary series, but the 3pt is probably a most important factor.

I think the 04 defense was better, imagine if they had been able to hit as hard as the Bad Boys with the 80/90 rules. Probably nobody in the NBA history had been able to finish at the rim with Ben Wallace there, because they didn't use the 3pt and the game was tighter. (I know there was 3pt line, but they almost didn't take it)

Bad Boys were one of the greatest team ever, but like always, the nostalgia is stronger than the common sense.

Reasonable minds might disagree on this matter without having their minds clouded by nostalgia and/or lacking common sense.

Teams of the BB's era weren't engaged in a contest of who could hit harder. This is a malicious fallacy. The back to back BB were surely at their strongest in the 88-89 year before expansion caused the loss of Mahorn. Wallace on Laimbeer is the most sensible matchup in that Sheed wouldn't mind going to the perimeter to guard. Sheed banging under the boards with Billy is an interesting notion. I guess you aren't planning on having Ben get much rest, as that year Mahorn started at PF and Rodman backed up Aguirre at SF? Honestly, I can't see Prince containing Aguirre much better than he did other very strong SFs.

I'm not sure why you're so certain that 3 point shooting is going to play such a big role in a matchup between great defensive teams, neither of which made open shots overly available to an opponent. Only four percentage points separated these teams in three point shooting, although certainly the shot was used much less in the BB's period. Dumars and Billups both shoot the 3 at 38% for their careers. So huge a difference?

In any case, this is all an exercise in nostalgia, and there is no right answer as nothing can be proven.