ST: Blue Jays @ Twins April 15-17

[T-d0t]

I wanted to punch Wilner every time he said "it was still early" last season.

[s e n s i]

we may very well blow a dozen more late-game leads this season, maybe give up a string of hits, a couple errors and a walk-off grand slam to jp arencibia, but i'm having a difficult time envisioning a scenario worse than the baseball calamity we just witnessed

8 walks, 3 wild pitches, 1 hit, 6 runs in ONE **** inning? that cannot be real life

apparently the 8 walks in one half-inning was the most since the orioles did it april 19, 1996. that would mean -- and i'm ballparking it here -- that that was the first time in ~787320 half-innings that a single team managed to walk 8 batters. great job boys great job

[Michael Bradley]

I just hope when this team proves not to be good enough they do a Boston style rebuild AKA - trade guys like Dickey, Buehrle, Rasmus, a couple bullpen arms and keep whatever young players we can get and use the saved cash on free agency.

Agreed. Bautista and Encarnacion are still elite players, and probably will be for the remainder of their current deal (one guaranteed year + one option). It would make sense to do a Boston style retool by trading the expensive/replaceable talent to save money and then re-invest. Unfortunately, as mentioned already, Rogers probably won't re-invest, and Toronto isn't a free agent hot spot so duplicating Boston's signings would be difficult.

If the Jays could erase the 2012 off-season in one swoop (i.e. trade Dickey, Buehrle, and Reyes for prospects), they might be able to pull off a quick turnaround depending on what they get back. I don't think that's the direction they will go, though.

[Mehar]

I wanted to punch Wilner every time he said "it was still early last season".

The guy is saying the same thing again now (LOL). Was listening to the post-game show as i did my nightly workout, and i wanted to vomit listening to him saying it is April, so at that point i turned the radio off. It was the second time i listened to the Jays talk after opening day, and it made me realize why i stopped listening to Wilner in the first place. Definiton of a true apologist. Guy will always apologize for the Jays. It is a smart strategy for him, since it keeps him gainfully employed by Rogers.

[SharoneWright]

Walk-a-thon.

[kwamebargnani]

Happ, Sierra, Goins, Diaz and Thole. We have FIVE guys who don't belong in the majors, and only two of them are here because of injuries. That's some great roster management right there.

[uniballer]

I just hope when this team proves not to be good enough they do a Boston style rebuild AKA - trade guys like Dickey, Buehrle, Rasmus, a couple bullpen arms and keep whatever young players we can get and use the saved cash on free agency.

Agreed. Bautista and Encarnacion are still elite players, and probably will be for the remainder of their current deal (one guaranteed year + one option). It would make sense to do a Boston style retool by trading the expensive/replaceable talent to save money and then re-invest. Unfortunately, as mentioned already, Rogers probably won't re-invest, and Toronto isn't a free agent hot spot so duplicating Boston's signings would be difficult.

If the Jays could erase the 2012 off-season in one swoop (i.e. trade Dickey, Buehrle, and Reyes for prospects), they might be able to pull off a quick turnaround depending on what they get back. I don't think that's the direction they will go, though.

The thing is to do that you have to be fully committed to a rebuild. I really don't think rogers can do that. They have been all over the map with where they wanted this team to go for decades now.

[RapsFanInVA]

Didn't watch lol, so glad to get the hell out of Minnesota.

[stealthmode]

rough outing yesterday

[Back2back2back]

Who's making the next game thread?

I'll take it, if nobody else is.

[dagger]

I wanted to punch Wilner every time he said "it was still early last season".

The guy is saying the same thing again now (LOL). Was listening to the post-game show as i did my nightly workout, and i wanted to vomit listening to him saying it is April, so at that point i turned the radio off. It was the second time i listened to the Jays talk after opening day, and it made me realize why i stopped listening to Wilner in the first place. Definiton of a true apologist. Guy will always apologize for the Jays. It is a smart strategy for him, since it keeps him gainfully employed by Rogers.

I've noticed that others with ties to the team and Sportsnet are more ready to criticize the team or Gibbons' decisions, albeit gently. Wilner, however, is relentless in his shilling, and in the long run, I don't think he's helping the team. What if AA or his successor makes a radical course change that essentially aligns with the view that the team is going nowhere this season? I'm waiting for the inevitable 180 from Wilner.

[youreachiteach]

The problem is he is taking a rational argument (sample size) and twisting it to meet his bias. It is early, but there are also many things to be concerned about. The callers who are on his show aren't smart enough to elucidate their points very clearly, where he is able to dissemble and attack the minor inconsistency rather than address the main point.

It works--because that earns him the respect of the people who listen for him to slam callers. It doesn't help that often his callers are mouth breathers who don't argue the point well. He has people screening callers for a reason.

He will of course mimic what management does as the correct standpoint, with some minor quibbles. In defense of Wilner, he almost got fired for questioning a manager's decision. Seems pretty obvious what his role is. He is a happy mouthpiece, step outside this and his job is in peril. It's not just Wilner they have threatened, the Jays have consistently fired/let go/made people leave prematurely, Morris, Hayhurst being some recent examples.

Zaunie is Don Cherry reincarnated for a pro-hockey audience--a man who speaks loudly but no one takes seriously. Anyone who might be taken seriously stays in their appointed boxes and doesn't stray outside the lines.

Listening to the talking heads locally (outside the press, who have a distinct reason to question) is an exercise in futility. It's too bad.

[torontoaces04]

...at least we got to see history being made last night. That was one of the worst innings in the last 25 years of MLB baseball that I've watched.

[Nolan]

...at least we got to see history being made last night. That was one of the worst innings in the last 25 years of MLB baseball that I've watched.

I've never seen a pitcher just fall apart like that.

[whysoserious]

I wanted to punch Wilner every time he said "it was still early last season".

The guy is saying the same thing again now (LOL). Was listening to the post-game show as i did my nightly workout, and i wanted to vomit listening to him saying it is April, so at that point i turned the radio off. It was the second time i listened to the Jays talk after opening day, and it made me realize why i stopped listening to Wilner in the first place. Definiton of a true apologist. Guy will always apologize for the Jays. It is a smart strategy for him, since it keeps him gainfully employed by Rogers.

The guy ha the nerve yesterday on the radio to justify Dickey as being a 5th starer and it's okay, that Hutch, Buehrle, and Morrow are the keys. And pointed out that Dickey was great in the second half. Great is not a word I would associate with his second half, better than his first? Sure, good even? Yes, but great? Not really.

Dickey honestly sucks, he's a nice guy and seems to want to do well, but I actually hate watching him pitch and the Jays are the ones selling him as their Ace. Wilners a faking tool

[Mehar]

I wanted to punch Wilner every time he said "it was still early last season".

The guy is saying the same thing again now (LOL). Was listening to the post-game show as i did my nightly workout, and i wanted to vomit listening to him saying it is April, so at that point i turned the radio off. It was the second time i listened to the Jays talk after opening day, and it made me realize why i stopped listening to Wilner in the first place. Definiton of a true apologist. Guy will always apologize for the Jays. It is a smart strategy for him, since it keeps him gainfully employed by Rogers.

The guy ha the nerve yesterday on the radio to justify Dickey as being a 5th starer and it's okay, that Hutch, Buehrle, and Morrow are the keys. And pointed out that Dickey was great in the second half. Great is not a word I would associate with his second half, better than his first? Sure, good even? Yes, but great? Not really.

Dickey honestly sucks, he's a nice guy and seems to want to do well, but I actually hate watching him pitch and the Jays are the ones selling him as their Ace. Wilners a faking tool

The Jays did not trade their top two prospects, and another decent prospect for a 5th starter (LOL). Man that is a stupid thing to say even for Wilner standards. Dickey was not brought in to be a 5th starter. Mike Shillner as i call him is the definition of an apologist. He is so scared to lose his job that he will always be a shill for Rogers and the Blue Jays.

[Michael Bradley]

I just hope when this team proves not to be good enough they do a Boston style rebuild AKA - trade guys like Dickey, Buehrle, Rasmus, a couple bullpen arms and keep whatever young players we can get and use the saved cash on free agency.

Agreed. Bautista and Encarnacion are still elite players, and probably will be for the remainder of their current deal (one guaranteed year + one option). It would make sense to do a Boston style retool by trading the expensive/replaceable talent to save money and then re-invest. Unfortunately, as mentioned already, Rogers probably won't re-invest, and Toronto isn't a free agent hot spot so duplicating Boston's signings would be difficult.

If the Jays could erase the 2012 off-season in one swoop (i.e. trade Dickey, Buehrle, and Reyes for prospects), they might be able to pull off a quick turnaround depending on what they get back. I don't think that's the direction they will go, though.

The thing is to do that you have to be fully committed to a rebuild. I really don't think rogers can do that. They have been all over the map with where they wanted this team to go for decades now.

To be fair, Rogers did commit to a rebuild in 2009. The Jays traded Rolen, dumped Rios, and eventually traded Halladay for lottery tickets. Then they signed players like Alex Gonzalez, John Buck, and Dana Eveland to fill holes on the roster. They had no intention of winning in 2010. Then the rotation ended up being young, solid, and healthy all year, while Bautista turned into an MVP candidate out of no where, and here we are. I still say if Bautista had not panned out, the team would look completely different right now from a direction standpoint (for better or worse).

As far as this current team, yeah I agree, I can't see Rogers rebuilding this time around. Rebuilding a year after selling so much hype (in addition to the two decade long playoff drought) would cause a pretty crippling effect on attendance. That's why I think trading Dickey, Buehrle, Reyes, Morrow, Santos, Happ, etc, and freeing up as much payroll room as possible to set up for another run is the only viable solution. If the team gets enough talent back to fill some MLB holes, then they could possibly use the saved money to add in other areas to complete the team. Of course, that brings up the dilemma of Rogers re-investing into the team. After this past off-season, I don't see it happening.