Sixers fans big board: Pick #5 (POLL)

[Foshan]

Personally I like Vonleh, but at this spot I think Hinkie takes Smart. I think he is a bad fit, but bpa, and he seems to be a good analytical guy

[PhilasFinest]

There is a certain mindset that is in most of the top players in the NBA...and you don't develop that overnight....you usually have it or you don't.

Just to derail this thread, then does that apply to Wiggins? cause that is one of the chief concern's with him

Its a legit concern imo, and most executives share this issue as a main one for Wiggins.
His physcial/athletic tools still make him a great prospect, and he has occasionally flashed the star mindset, like when he demanded the ball nearly every possession in the 2nd half ad dropped 41.

Def a small bump tho....Not sure Lebron,Kobe,Melo etc would ever have taken 6 shots in a crucial,key game like Wiggins did in the tourney.

[Agnostifarian]

The NBA 2014 draft combine is in Chicago from 5/14 - 5/18 so we'll get new measurements then. In the meanwhile, I saw Vonleh display right and left handed post scoring and a nice jump shot. Randle spins left like the Tasmanian Devil. The Tasmanian Devil has a lightning first step but I'm not sure if he can jump or what his wingspan is but he has huge hands!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c54SvkgQ04A

[Ericb5]

You DID imply that Vonleh was not small though and there is nothing quantifiable that says that he is bigger than Randle.

By quoting height and wingspan as an indicator of size you have fallen into a trap because those metrics are very misleading.

Vonleh is quoted as 6'10 with a 7'4 wingspan, but let's compare that to Elton Brand who is 6'8 or 6'9 with a 7'5.5 wingspan. If we are using just those numbers you would expect them to be about the same size, but Brand has a 9'2 standing reach and Vonleh has an 8'10 reach.

They are 4 inches different.

For all intents and purposes Randle is the same size as Vonleh in the only metric that really measures size for post players. I would say that they both are about average size for NBA power forwards.

From a size only perspective Vonleh isn't close to the player that people compare him to in Bosh who has a 9'1 standing reach.

Vonleh's standing reach at the Hoop Summit was .5" longer than Randle and his height was 1" longer. You are arguing with me over whether to use standing reach or height....they are virtually the same for both players. You can decrease Vonleh's height by .5" and my argument still stands.

I'm not sure why you believe that standing reach is "the only metric that really measures size for post players" but that statement is completely false. Wingspan and standing reach are two different measurements for size and they both project different things. Vonleh having a significantly longer wingspan means he has longer arms and broader shoulders. These are terrific aspects for projecting steals (hands in the passing lane), blocks (longer arms), and rebounds (wider range to grab the ball)

The 5" difference between these two players' wingspans is extremely important, it is what makes Randle undersized for his position while Vonleh is adequately built for it. You jumped to an extreme here. I never said Vonleh was a giant. He is adequately built for his position while Randle is not, neither of them are Manute Bol

I grant you the passing lanes advantage to longer arms, but that is mostly for guarding away from the basket.

The rest of the post player measurables all come down to standing reach. If it didn't, then that wouldn't be the central measurement of post players. Your overall reach for example is what makes some players able to play center and others not.

I would say that neither player is too small or especially long. They are both of average size.

And on the intangibles point I am referring mostly to motor, which I think is an advantage to Randle.

[Ericb5]

There is a certain mindset that is in most of the top players in the NBA...and you don't develop that overnight....you usually have it or you don't.

Just to derail this thread, then does that apply to Wiggins? cause that is one of the chief concern's with him

I agree. It is my biggest concern with Wiggins. Parker and Randle are born stars IMO, and the jury is out still on Wiggins.

[LloydFree]

I love the ridiculous 'intangibles' and alpha-male traits being assigned to players, we don't know. I wonder if the GM that drafted Evan Turner is at home now, mumbling about the alpha-male traits he showed in 'college'.

I recall Tyler Hansbrough had these 'intangibles'. Shelden Williams was an Alpha. Sean May was an Alpha. Wayman Tisdale was an Alpha. J R Reid was an Alpha. Michael Beasley was an Alpha.

It's hilarious how every Physically mature Freshman that comes into college and scores double figures gets assigned the monicker of Alpha Male. Nobody ever LEARNS that these guys' peers will have the same strength in 3 years, and everybody in the NBA is stronger than them right now. All these "strong" "alphas" in college seem find their way to the bench when they get into the NBA.

LeBron and Melo have been Alphas pretty much there entire lives....worked out fine for them.

There is a certain mindset that is in most of the top players in the NBA...and you don't develop that overnight....you usually have it or you don't.

Pretty sure Vonleh isn't grabbing boards or scoring in the post by jumping over people either....hes pretty big boy too who uses it too his advantage.

[b]Most of the guys you mentioned are upperclassmen[b] .... Randle is a freshman.

and Beasley could have been a hell of a player....he just chose to smoke his way out of that potential and take 0 direction from anyone.

Naw, homie. All of those guys (except maybe Shelden Williams)were so-called 'beast' Freshman that excelled early because they were strong enough to dominate other young players and compete with upper classmen. Somehow people never seem to get, that the other players will physically mature, and suddenly these players don't have the advantage at that point. Once everybody Physically matures, they're all 'Beasts', and then it comes down to skill.

[76thBearCub]

Gut says Randle. I'm right sometimes

[sixers hoops]

I voted Randle. Tough call.

[ProcessDoctor]

Went with Vonleh. Something about Randle's game makes me hesitate to think he will be successful at the next level

[phillychuck]

Trade back 2 or 3 spots, get more pix.

[Kova]

You guys haven't seen Saric play. Obviously because he is in Europe. Trust me, he will be a top NBA player. His bb IQ is Gasols-like, he is 20, but he is somewhat ready to contribute W column immediately (unlike Wiggins, Randle, Exum, Ebiid....)

I just wish we could draft him at 10, and get him here for 14'/15' season,

Having an IQ doesn't help when your a tweener who can't shoot, and has a **** attitude.

ill pass on Saric...He doesn't have the size to play the 4 or the athleticism/speed to play the 3.

**** attitude??!? Ok, now I'm 100% sure you have no idea what you're talking about.. This guy is everything you want in your lockerroom. Comes in first, leaves last, works on every detail of his game, especially his flaws. He is a leader at 20 years of age, has winning mentality, never gives up, just a pure 'fighter' on the floor.

Tell me, was Toni Kukoc a tweener? Yes he was. Dario can improve his shooting, and his a lot more athletic than Toni ever was. Trust me on this one.

[Agnostifarian]

You guys haven't seen Saric play. Obviously because he is in Europe. Trust me, he will be a top NBA player. His bb IQ is Gasols-like, he is 20, but he is somewhat ready to contribute W column immediately (unlike Wiggins, Randle, Exum, Ebiid....)

I just wish we could draft him at 10, and get him here for 14'/15' season,

Having an IQ doesn't help when your a tweener who can't shoot, and has a **** attitude.

ill pass on Saric...He doesn't have the size to play the 4 or the athleticism/speed to play the 3.

**** attitude??!? Ok, now I'm 100% sure you have no idea what you're talking about.. This guy is everything you want in your lockerroom. Comes in first, leaves last, works on every detail of his game, especially his flaws. He is a leader at 20 years of age, has winning mentality, never gives up, just a pure 'fighter' on the floor.

Tell me, was Toni Kukoc a tweener? Yes he was. Dario can improve his shooting, and his a lot more athletic than Toni ever was. Trust me on this one.

Cool man! You're our EuroScout... So Saric, is he Larry Bird w/o the jump shot? What do you think about Nurkic?

[F-Stop]

1000% Randle ...

6ers have not had an interior scorer in years.

I can;t go with Vonleh due to how Favors has been. 6ers cannot risk this pick on a passive player.

[PhilasFinest]

You guys haven't seen Saric play. Obviously because he is in Europe. Trust me, he will be a top NBA player. His bb IQ is Gasols-like, he is 20, but he is somewhat ready to contribute W column immediately (unlike Wiggins, Randle, Exum, Ebiid....)

I just wish we could draft him at 10, and get him here for 14'/15' season,

Having an IQ doesn't help when your a tweener who can't shoot, and has a **** attitude.

ill pass on Saric...He doesn't have the size to play the 4 or the athleticism/speed to play the 3.

**** attitude??!? Ok, now I'm 100% sure you have no idea what you're talking about.. This guy is everything you want in your lockerroom. Comes in first, leaves last, works on every detail of his game, especially his flaws. He is a leader at 20 years of age, has winning mentality, never gives up, just a pure 'fighter' on the floor.

Tell me, was Toni Kukoc a tweener? Yes he was. Dario can improve his shooting, and his a lot more athletic than Toni ever was. Trust me on this one.

Hey you likely know more than me on Saric if your watching him in europe....Multiple reports out there state that Saric has a sense of entitlement and a diva/ET like attitude. I wasn't speaking on his work ethic, more his overall attitude.

So tell me,can Saric defend SF's? Most scouting reports I've seen state he's somewhat stuck in the 4/3 "tweener area.

Also, Is he even considering coming over soon? I believe DX was saying he was declaring but still not 100%, and also wants to "dominate" euro league before he comes to the NBA.

[eliasrapp98]

Randle. Not even a question to me.

[Agnostifarian]

You DID imply that Vonleh was not small though and there is nothing quantifiable that says that he is bigger than Randle.

By quoting height and wingspan as an indicator of size you have fallen into a trap because those metrics are very misleading.

Vonleh is quoted as 6'10 with a 7'4 wingspan, but let's compare that to Elton Brand who is 6'8 or 6'9 with a 7'5.5 wingspan. If we are using just those numbers you would expect them to be about the same size, but Brand has a 9'2 standing reach and Vonleh has an 8'10 reach.

They are 4 inches different.

For all intents and purposes Randle is the same size as Vonleh in the only metric that really measures size for post players. I would say that they both are about average size for NBA power forwards.

From a size only perspective Vonleh isn't close to the player that people compare him to in Bosh who has a 9'1 standing reach.

Vonleh's standing reach at the Hoop Summit was .5" longer than Randle and his height was 1" longer. You are arguing with me over whether to use standing reach or height....they are virtually the same for both players. You can decrease Vonleh's height by .5" and my argument still stands.

I'm not sure why you believe that standing reach is "the only metric that really measures size for post players" but that statement is completely false. Wingspan and standing reach are two different measurements for size and they both project different things. Vonleh having a significantly longer wingspan means he has longer arms and broader shoulders. These are terrific aspects for projecting steals (hands in the passing lane), blocks (longer arms), and rebounds (wider range to grab the ball)

The 5" difference between these two players' wingspans is extremely important, it is what makes Randle undersized for his position while Vonleh is adequately built for it. You jumped to an extreme here. I never said Vonleh was a giant. He is adequately built for his position while Randle is not, neither of them are Manute Bol

I grant you the passing lanes advantage to longer arms, but that is mostly for guarding away from the basket.

The rest of the post player measurables all come down to standing reach. If it didn't, then that wouldn't be the central measurement of post players. Your overall reach for example is what makes some players able to play center and others not.

I would say that neither player is too small or especially long. They are both of average size.

And on the intangibles point I am referring mostly to motor, which I think is an advantage to Randle.

Great conversation about height, wingspan, standing reach and what they mean for C/PF positions. I';d just like to point out that Kyle Anderson's last measurements at the Hoops Summit in 2012 were: height w/ shoes 6" 7.5", wingspan of 7' 2.5", STANDING REACH OF 9' 0" and he weighed 233 lbs.

DON'T SLEEP ON KYLE ANDERSON!!!

[noobcake]

Best talent is Smart, but MCW is already here.

Probably take Vonleh or Randle.

[Ericb5]

Vonleh's standing reach at the Hoop Summit was .5" longer than Randle and his height was 1" longer. You are arguing with me over whether to use standing reach or height....they are virtually the same for both players. You can decrease Vonleh's height by .5" and my argument still stands.

I'm not sure why you believe that standing reach is "the only metric that really measures size for post players" but that statement is completely false. Wingspan and standing reach are two different measurements for size and they both project different things. Vonleh having a significantly longer wingspan means he has longer arms and broader shoulders. These are terrific aspects for projecting steals (hands in the passing lane), blocks (longer arms), and rebounds (wider range to grab the ball)

The 5" difference between these two players' wingspans is extremely important, it is what makes Randle undersized for his position while Vonleh is adequately built for it. You jumped to an extreme here. I never said Vonleh was a giant. He is adequately built for his position while Randle is not, neither of them are Manute Bol

I grant you the passing lanes advantage to longer arms, but that is mostly for guarding away from the basket.

The rest of the post player measurables all come down to standing reach. If it didn't, then that wouldn't be the central measurement of post players. Your overall reach for example is what makes some players able to play center and others not.

I would say that neither player is too small or especially long. They are both of average size.

And on the intangibles point I am referring mostly to motor, which I think is an advantage to Randle.

Great conversation about height, wingspan, standing reach and what they mean for C/PF positions. I';d just like to point out that Kyle Anderson's last measurements at the Hoops Summit in 2012 were: height w/ shoes 6" 7.5", wingspan of 7' 2.5", STANDING REACH OF 9' 0" and he weighed 233 lbs.

DON'T SLEEP ON KYLE ANDERSON!!!

I have been thinking about what I wrote and wanted to amend one thing. I don't doubt that all things being equal that the person with the longer arms is going to have an advantage in some situations including post defense.

I just think that when people refer to someone as undersized that they should be careful of doing that solely on arm length as standing reach is a better measurement of size.

In addition, I think that strength and weight is a factor too so someone like Kyle Anderson who is clearly long would still be at a disadvantage in the post due to his skinniness.

Randle is not undersized to play the power forward in the NBA if you consider his strength and standing reach. I would say that he is average overall. He does have short arms for his size and that is not insignificant, but it doesn't mean that he won't be able to dominate at the position.

I don't expect him to ever be a great defender or block a lot of shots, but I expect him to be an elite rebounder who will force double teams consistently. I also believe that he can do things that he didn't really show at Kentucky such as shoot the ball and drive to the hoop. He can be effective in the pick and roll as well and he rarely ever got the chance to do that.

He is the ideal front court mate for Noel as his weaknesses are Noel's strengths and Noel's weaknesses(post scoring for example) are his strength.

It is also not unimportant that he has an elite motor as competitiveness and desire are two things that many players lack and are hard to instill.

[LloydFree]

Best talent is Smart, but MCW is already here.

Probably take Vonleh or Randle.

I chose Vonleh, but I would be fine with Marcus Smart at #5. And I wouldn't NOT take him due to MCW's presence. I'd play them together and allow Smart to get about 16 minutes per game at PG, until I saw who the better player was, or if they could play together long term.

[noobcake]

Best talent is Smart, but MCW is already here.

Probably take Vonleh or Randle.

I chose Vonleh, but I would be fine with Marcus Smart at #5. And I wouldn't NOT take him due to MCW's presence. I'd play them together and allow Smart to get about 16 minutes per game at PG, until I saw who the better player was, or if they could play together long term.

MCW seem somewhat promising. Smart is not a tier, or even half a tier, above Randle or Vonleh to warrant taking him when MCW is on the team. If Exum is on the board at #5, you can say GTFO MCW.