2014 NBA Playoffs: Toronto Raptors (3) vs Brooklyn Nets (6)

[Prokorov]

An inexperienced raptors team is not going to win on the road in the playoffs against one of the best home teams in the nba

Sent from my LG-VS980 using Tapatalk

Do you have a crystal ball to make these predictions? The Raptors won in Brooklyn earlier this year, they can do it again. Especially considering the age of the Nets.

how exactly is age relevant?

[Prokorov]

Hello Brooklyn,

Trolling aside I wanted to share something with you because I think it would go a long way in understanding the dynamics of the Raptors organization's current goals and the fan base mindset. I know you'll understand because at least some of you on the Brooklyn board share some similar feelings because you've been in similar positions yourselves.

Example From Nets Board:

You know, ESPN NY is as biased as they come. The Nets win a big game 1, IN THE PLAYOFFS, and the first two headlines are recaps of the Yankees and Mets REGULAR SEASON GAMES. If it was the Knicks that won game 1, they would be the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd stories.

Ridiculous.

You would think they would pay a little more attention to the NBA playoffs, specifically to the one NY team that's actually in the NBA playoffs.

Even yesterday on ESPN radio they were always sneaking in Knicks discussion.

The Nets have a long way to go in this area, sadly.

Good luck with your fights, and maybe you can support or at least understand ours... (after the series of course )

Have a look at this article, it's not from the tabloid-style-headline-grabbing Sun newspaper that you have now become familiar with.

http://www.thestar.com/sports/raptors/2 ... tment.html

Quick Preview - Do read the rest at the link though!

There is so much more to these NBA playoffs for the Raptors than just the post-season.

There are messages to be delivered and notices to be served.

If general manager Masai Ujiri might have been a bit intemperate with his “Eff Brooklyn” statement before Game 1 of the series with the Nets, he was simply standing up for an organization that needs to command respect from a league that hasn’t shown much of it in the past half decade.

There is more public fight to this group, more feistiness, more standing up for itself than it’s shown, more “We’re fed up and we’re not going to take it any more.” From front office personnel to players, coaches and support staff, it’s as if they’ve finally had enough of being slighted. The first post-season appearance since 2008 is a perfect avenue to get that out.

That said.. Go Raps. Boo Brooklyn. AND F*** ESPN.
*Hope you share this with your other Brooklyn brethren.

to me that article in that paper comes off as the raptors kind of being cry babies. respect is earned and the raps writers/fans seem quick to make excuses. you arent going to get respect by blaming the refs or throwing out expletives... all that is going to do is make you look lke a complete joke if you lose the series.

The situation with us is similar in that the nets are like 8th fiddle in NY behind both baseball teams, both football teams, a hockey team and a another nba team. But the nets know they wont get respect by coming out and demanding it... they know they only way to get it is to win and win consistently and to win big.

The “We’re fed up and we’re not going to take it any more.” is really irrelevant. you have no choice but to keep taking it until the raptors become consistent proven winners. and that doesnt happen by blaming the refs before game 1 starts and that taking passive aggresive shots at them afterwards.

Even if the officiating is terrible, that ALWAYS comes off as sour grapes... and if you are going to criticize the refs you need to take a page out of the popvich/brian billick/parcells playbook and do it after a win.

[Prokorov]

Of course us Raptor fans are going to be hyper-vigilant. We've been subjected to years of awful basketball and have finally been given something to be excited about. That coupled with the media embargo, the uneducated assumptions Americans bandy around about Canada,( I know this. I'm a dual citizen. Mother born and raised in Yonkers, Ny. Lived in Ironbound NJ for awhile, too.), and the widespread sentiment that the Nets will cake walk through the Raptors, and you have a very volatile, reactive Raptor fan base. Also, we're funny. Half of what is said is said with a tongue-in-cheek humour that can't be detected through online discourse. People take these things way, way too seriously. We're all having fun here. This is a great series. Look at the passion that it stirred up? This is the continuation of a rivalry with its roots in the Vince Carter betrayal of the Raptors.

With that being said.

Raps in 6.

YES! Fans with the best humour award also goes to the Raps! Press conference tomorrow before tip-off.

By the way our history is actually older and deeper than the Vince Carter situation.

The Raptors played their very first game as a new franchise in 1995 against the Nets in the SkyDome.
I believe the Raptors were the first team to play at the new Brooklyn arena as well.

i really dont think nets fans hate the raps they way you guys think we do. we werent pissed about the VC trade, it worked for us 2007 didnt spark anything for us, it wasnt a bloodshed series by any means like last years bulls one. maybe this year starts something if it goes 7, but really, i dont dislike the raps. in fact, if we werent playing you id be rooting for whoever you guys were going up against

[Prokorov]

Agree to disagree. I find it more telling that the Nets averaged close to 1000 more fans on the road over the span of 30 arenas baked into the average than having a lower crowd capacity at home which is fixed at max. Considering the franchise has only been in Brooklyn for two years and was abysmal in attendance in new Jersey, I find it remarkable how quickly the brand has turned around and solidified itself in a very competitive metropolitan area.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

It's a unique situation. i think the nets might have as many/more fans nationally then they do locally. We have mass market appeal, but are like 8th fiddle in the NY market.

[Prokorov]

On the Nets side:
I hope Kidd stresses we don't need to take 25 3 pointers per game. IMO it's a sign of being lazy and not working for a better shot. There should be more post ups (JJ, PP and D.Will) and more ball movement in general. Our defense was great on Saturday, but I wasn't impressed by the offense. Toronto played OK D, but for the most part I did not like the ball movement or the settling for 3s.

Also, we will see more Plumlee I'm sure, and I think he will open up the game a little bit more and allow the Nets to attack inside some. His energy will be welcome, but I love the fact that he offers us an above the rim target in transition and half court.

A lot of the 3's were decent/open shots imo. Raptors were lucky most of them missed. Raptors had a lot of lapses in defense (sign of an inexperienced team) that the Nets took advantage of. They also had trouble containing JJ, DWill, Livingston (despite the low amount of shot attempts) and Pierce (4th Q). Even though it wasn't a high scoring game, I thought Toronto's perimeter defense was weaker than it should have been and the Nets repetitively attacked the short mid-range area.

I agree the Net's offense wasn't that good and a lot of the time it felt like they scored through poor D rather than through great O.

As a Raps fan, Net's big men are x-factors and scare me a bit. Raps have enough to worry about against the vets.

i dont think there was much luck about it... long jumpers/3s dont fall with high frequency on the road. And role players dont play well historically on the road in the playoffs. and when you throw up 10-12 3 point attempts with teletovic and thornton those percentages wont look good on the road.

We were able to get away with it because we got 40 points in the paint and you had 19 turnovers. We arent going to win by shooting 25 threes. if we win it will be because we again found away to score in the paint and played good defense. Trader Joe was right, we need to cut down on the threes. id prefer to see 15 or less.

nets need to post up their gaurds and find a way to get KG to play closer to the rim

[Prokorov]

I absolutely HATE how many days there are in between the games. Game 1 was on Saturday so why wouldn't game 2 be yesterday? It doesn't make sense. Game 3 and 4 in Brooklyn are on Friday and Sunday, respectively. So why were games 1 and 2 separated by two days? This scheduling is so weird! Either way, I'm really excited for game 2 tonight. It should be another good one!

because the NBA doesnt want to compete with itself. on weekend they can go with a full slate of games. but during the week there are just 2 primetime slots. 7-8 PM EST and 7-8 PM PST

so they need to stagger the games to get the most out of their product

[Froob]

To encourage people to buy that NBAtv package

BTW Portland is where I'm living at this summer

Nice, Portland isn't a bad city. Are you from the states originally?

Originally Jamaica

Nice enjoy it dude. Maine's a beautiful state.

[Volcano]

On the Nets side:
I hope Kidd stresses we don't need to take 25 3 pointers per game. IMO it's a sign of being lazy and not working for a better shot. There should be more post ups (JJ, PP and D.Will) and more ball movement in general. Our defense was great on Saturday, but I wasn't impressed by the offense. Toronto played OK D, but for the most part I did not like the ball movement or the settling for 3s.

Also, we will see more Plumlee I'm sure, and I think he will open up the game a little bit more and allow the Nets to attack inside some. His energy will be welcome, but I love the fact that he offers us an above the rim target in transition and half court.

A lot of the 3's were decent/open shots imo. Raptors were lucky most of them missed. Raptors had a lot of lapses in defense (sign of an inexperienced team) that the Nets took advantage of. They also had trouble containing JJ, DWill, Livingston (despite the low amount of shot attempts) and Pierce (4th Q). Even though it wasn't a high scoring game, I thought Toronto's perimeter defense was weaker than it should have been and the Nets repetitively attacked the short mid-range area.

I agree the Net's offense wasn't that good and a lot of the time it felt like they scored through poor D rather than through great O.

As a Raps fan, Net's big men are x-factors and scare me a bit. Raps have enough to worry about against the vets.

i dont think there was much luck about it... long jumpers/3s dont fall with high frequency on the road. And role players dont play well historically on the road in the playoffs. and when you throw up 10-12 3 point attempts with teletovic and thornton those percentages wont look good on the road.

We were able to get away with it because we got 40 points in the paint and you had 19 turnovers. We arent going to win by shooting 25 threes. if we win it will be because we again found away to score in the paint and played good defense. Trader Joe was right, we need to cut down on the threes. id prefer to see 15 or less.

nets need to post up their gaurds and find a way to get KG to play closer to the rim

but Thornton, AA and Telovic aren't going to go 0-12 all the time, especially when given space. Thorton is 36% from 3 on the road. AA is 36.2%. Telovic is 38.3%. You're saying it's not lucky for the Raps that all of them combined hit ZERO three pointers?

Role players hit shots all the time on the road in the playoffs. You act like that shot will never fall. This playoffs alone we have role players making 3's on the road:

Mike Miller 4/6, Devin Harris 3/7, Jose 1/2, Gary Neal 2/5, McRoberts 3/5, Martell Webster 1/3, Mo Will 1/4, Harrison Barnes 4/10, Steve Blake 2/5, Demarre Carroll 2/4, Pero Antic 2/5, Kyle Korver 2/7, Shelvin Mack 2/5, James Johnson 1/1

In fact, the Nets are the only team that didn't have a role player make a 3. Please tell me which scenario is more likely again?

I'm not saying Nets should just jack up long shots, but an open 3 is one of the best/most efficient shots in the NBA. Yes, they should go inside and if the defense collapses and the Nets get decent look at the 3, they should take it. Even if they only hit 3/12 shots, that's a 9 point swing and would have made the game a blow out at certain points. It's not like with Derozan where they were facing heavy defensive pressure and getting locked down either.

[Prokorov]

but Thornton, AA and Telovic aren't going to go 0-12 all the time, especially when given space. Thorton is 36% from 3 on the road. AA is 36.2%. Telovic is 38.3%. You're saying it's not lucky for the Raps that all of them combined hit ZERO three pointers?

Maybe not 0, but id bet as a trio they shoot it at 20% or less. Regular season road numbers arent really relevant, history has shown road players jump shooting and 3 point shooting on the road takes a pretty significant dip. im expecting more major struggles from thornton and mirza tonite. thats just the way it goes

Role players hit shots all the time on the road in the playoffs. You act like that shot will never fall. This playoffs alone we have role players making 3's on the road:

"all the time"? yes they arent off 100% of the time. but the large majority of the time they are. just look at last years playoffs and last years final. Green went from a god to a scrub home vs road. battier went from goat to hero from road to home. thats just the way it plays out over the course of the playoffs.

[/quote]
Mike Miller 4/6, Devin Harris 3/7, Jose 1/2, Gary Neal 2/5, McRoberts 3/5, Martell Webster 1/3, Mo Will 1/4, Harrison Barnes 4/10, Steve Blake 2/5, Demarre Carroll 2/4, Pero Antic 2/5, Kyle Korver 2/7, Shelvin Mack 2/5, James Johnson 1/1[/quote]

Pero antic and kyle korver are starters who play a really big role in an offense that really doesnt have a ton of go to scoreres. i wouldnt really call them role guys. and you left out a ton of players out as well as going by a sample size of like 1 game for each time. i gaurantee once the first round is over role players on the road shoot south of 20% from 3.

In fact, the Nets are the only team that didn't have a role player make a 3. Please tell me which scenario is more likely again?

its more likely they continue to not hit 3s tonite. im not saying they go 0-for, but i think a combined 3-12 or 2-10 is about what will happen. its what happens every year.

I'm not saying Nets should just jack up long shots, but an open 3 is one of the best/most efficient shots in the NBA. Yes, they should go inside and if the defense collapses and the Nets get decent look at the 3, they should take it. Even if they only hit 3/12 shots, that's a 9 point swing and would have made the game a blow out at certain points. It's not like with Derozan where they were facing heavy defensive pressure and getting locked down either.

the nets arent going to win by shooting 3s. if we fail to get 40ish points in the paint again, we are going to lose, maybe even get embrassed the way the warriors did last night

[GooniesNeverDie]

Personally I don't really buy the refereeing excuses, it's become a part of the game however this is kind of interest. Ex-ref interview about league mandates and reffing bias... http://pmd.fan590.com/audio_on_demand-3/Tim-Donaghy-with-Jeff-Blair-jb-20140422-Interview.mp3

[Courtside]

Hard for Raps fans to talk 50 pages of useless **** now that they're losing. I think they realized their team actually has to win a game before they start spouting off.

or the lack of Net's fan in general. They won Game One and yet it's so quiet. The silence is deafening indeed.

Nets fans know not to prematurely talk smack.

I think the comment was referring to the number of Nets fans who post on realgm. There's not much debate which fanbase is represented in larger volume on this site, both in terms of numbers of posters and numbers of posts.

Brooklyn's a fairly new team though, even though they simply moved 15 miles or whatever. The previous fanbase wasn't huge and it will take some good years like this to win over new fans in a very tough market, where fans have longstanding loyalties to other teams. The Leafs are to the Toronto market what the Yankees are in New York - they simply dominate the sports media landscape.

I do think that fans of the team should grow in their online presence though. Part of the reason the Raptors fanbase seems so rabid online is because largely get pushed to a page or two in the back of the sports section as well. The two teams share that much, and going online to get better coverage and more knowledgeable discussion is something Nets fans should be doing more of as that fanbase grows if they aren't getting the attention they deserve from the local media.

I rivalry between these two teams wouldn't be a bad thing to cultivate, and that's probably part of what is behind all the talk from the Raptor fans on here also. It's more fun when there's 2 way banter, cheering, taunting, whatever to heighten the experience and I think they (we?) would have loved to go up against a more numerous realgm fanbase like the Knicks or the Bulls to get pumped up against. Being a fan is more interesting when you have a rival, or arch enemy, or someone who at least comes back at you with as much as you go at them with.

It's not an insult to say the Nets fanbase is smaller, it just is what it is.

[Prokorov]

or the lack of Net's fan in general. They won Game One and yet it's so quiet. The silence is deafening indeed.

Nets fans know not to prematurely talk smack.

I think the comment was referring to the number of Nets fans who post on realgm. There's not much debate which fanbase is represented in larger volume on this site, both in terms of numbers of posters and numbers of posts.

Brooklyn's a fairly new team though, even though they simply moved 15 miles or whatever. The previous fanbase wasn't huge and it will take some good years like this to win over new fans in a very tough market, where fans have longstanding loyalties to other teams. The Leafs are to the Toronto market what the Yankees are in New York - they simply dominate the sports media landscape.

I do think that fans of the team should grow in their online presence though. Part of the reason the Raptors fanbase seems so rabid online is because largely get pushed to a page or two in the back of the sports section as well. The two teams share that much, and going online to get better coverage and more knowledgeable discussion is something Nets fans should be doing more of as that fanbase grows if they aren't getting the attention they deserve from the local media.

I rivalry between these two teams wouldn't be a bad thing to cultivate, and that's probably part of what is behind all the talk from the Raptor fans on here also. It's more fun when there's 2 way banter, cheering, taunting, whatever to heighten the experience and I think they (we?) would have loved to go up against a more numerous realgm fanbase like the Knicks or the Bulls to get pumped up against. Being a fan is more interesting when you have a rival, or arch enemy, or someone who at least comes back at you with as much as you go at them with.

It's not an insult to say the Nets fanbase is smaller, it just is what it is.

the nets arent going to win over fans. for all the reasons you mentioned. Sure we will get a few bandwagon fans and maybe ciphon a few from the knicks who are fed up but for the time being its basically just gonna be us NJ fans and some bandwagoners.

this team is only going to build a fan base 1 way. Win now, be better the the knicks every year, and get the fans who are 6-10 years old now who become net fans from day 1 and continue to be die hards into their 20s and 30s.

growing online isnt going to grow a fanbase... not when people are already fans of another team and have an online presence already.

knicks fans arent going to become nets fans other then maybe like 1% who werent big knicks fans, grew up in BK, or are fed up. and knicks fans make up like 90% of the market.

if ownership is smart(and it looks like they are) they will just keep trying to bring in big names, try and stay in the playoffs while doing so, and try and make sure the knicks are never (much) better. keep doing that and in 10-15 years our fanbase will be fine

[Left Side Drive]

raps will get swept

[Rockice_24]

The fan argument is dumb, who really cares about that. The Nets fill up their arena and finally have a real homecourt advantage unlike NJ where nobody showed up to cheer. That's all that really matters.

TOR has a brand just like BK (especially now more than ever with that chump Drake showing his face everywhere) and it should have more fans since it's backed by an entire country. It's really just more people they are going to let down in the end though

[Courtside]

how exactly is age relevant?

I'm not sure why this is something that needs to be questioned or explained...

Games 1, 2 and 3 each have a 2 day break in between games, which goes a long way to level the playing field in terms of rest and aches/injuries. Both teams will be rested.

Games 3 and 4 will have one day off between games however, the same goes for games 5, 6 and 7 (if it goes that far, of course) and it's not unreasonable to suggest that less time off to rest and recover would be felt more by players in their late 30s than players in their early 20s. A

As any series goes on, the more that fatigue becomes a factor to any team, more so to an older one.

It's in the Nets interest to keep the pace slow and limit the physical exertion needed, while the opposite is true for Toronto. We're have played more of a half court "playoff game" all season, but it's in our interest to get out and run and make the opponent run more and work harder than we did in game 1.

Also, a lot of veteran players in the NBA take anti-inflammatories, which don't mix well with frequent air travel and altitude change. The Raptors have some players who are a little dinged up and may be affected by this also (Amir Johnson), but there's a reason why players are considered "prime" between 26 and 32, give or take.

Pierce was in prime form in the 4th quarter of game 1, no question, but can he, Johnson and Garnett play in prime form with every added playoff-level game played? Can Garnett even get into prime form, considering how slow he looked in game 1? The Raptors are hoping not.

[VanDamme]

Hello Brooklyn,

Trolling aside I wanted to share something with you because I think it would go a long way in understanding the dynamics of the Raptors organization's current goals and the fan base mindset. I know you'll understand because at least some of you on the Brooklyn board share some similar feelings because you've been in similar positions yourselves.

Example From Nets Board:

Even yesterday on ESPN radio they were always sneaking in Knicks discussion.

The Nets have a long way to go in this area, sadly.

Good luck with your fights, and maybe you can support or at least understand ours... (after the series of course )

Have a look at this article, it's not from the tabloid-style-headline-grabbing Sun newspaper that you have now become familiar with.

http://www.thestar.com/sports/raptors/2 ... tment.html

Quick Preview - Do read the rest at the link though!

There is so much more to these NBA playoffs for the Raptors than just the post-season.

There are messages to be delivered and notices to be served.

If general manager Masai Ujiri might have been a bit intemperate with his “Eff Brooklyn” statement before Game 1 of the series with the Nets, he was simply standing up for an organization that needs to command respect from a league that hasn’t shown much of it in the past half decade.

There is more public fight to this group, more feistiness, more standing up for itself than it’s shown, more “We’re fed up and we’re not going to take it any more.” From front office personnel to players, coaches and support staff, it’s as if they’ve finally had enough of being slighted. The first post-season appearance since 2008 is a perfect avenue to get that out.

That said.. Go Raps. Boo Brooklyn. AND F*** ESPN.
*Hope you share this with your other Brooklyn brethren.

to me that article in that paper comes off as the raptors kind of being cry babies. respect is earned and the raps writers/fans seem quick to make excuses. you arent going to get respect by blaming the refs or throwing out expletives... all that is going to do is make you look lke a complete joke if you lose the series.

The situation with us is similar in that the nets are like 8th fiddle in NY behind both baseball teams, both football teams, a hockey team and a another nba team. But the nets know they wont get respect by coming out and demanding it... they know they only way to get it is to win and win consistently and to win big.

The “We’re fed up and we’re not going to take it any more.” is really irrelevant. you have no choice but to keep taking it until the raptors become consistent proven winners. and that doesnt happen by blaming the refs before game 1 starts and that taking passive aggresive shots at them afterwards.

Even if the officiating is terrible, that ALWAYS comes off as sour grapes... and if you are going to criticize the refs you need to take a page out of the popvich/brian billick/parcells playbook and do it after a win.

Your response tells me you missed what was at the heart of what was being said. I guess it's a perspective thing.

[Prokorov]

how exactly is age relevant?

I'm not sure why this is something that needs to be questioned or explained...

Games 1, 2 and 3 each have a 2 day break in between games, which goes a long way to level the playing field in terms of rest and aches/injuries. Both teams will be rested.

Games 3 and 4 will have one day off between games however, the same goes for games 5, 6 and 7 (if it goes that far, of course) and it's not unreasonable to suggest that less time off to rest and recover would be felt more by players in their late 30s than players in their early 20s.

i think you are drasitically overstated how big a factor age players. i mean, the heat were the oldest and spurs the 5th oldest teams in the NBA last year, both went deep in series, and neither wore out. And to think a team would be wore out in round 1 seems kind of silly.

Also, a lot of veteran players in the NBA take anti-inflammatories, which don't mix well with frequent air travel and altitude change. The Raptors have some players who are a little dinged up and may be affected by this also (Amir Johnson), but there's a reason why players are considered "prime" between 26 and 32, give or take.

Right, and almost the entire nets rotation(8 of the 10 guys) are between ages 26 and 32:

Deron Williams
Joe Johnson
Shaun Livingston
Mirza Teletovic
Mason Plumlee
Andray Blatche
Marcus Thornton,
Alan anderson

are all in that 26-32 age range.

Pierce and Garnett are the only 2 who are outside that range. KG is a 20 MPG player who has been rested all year. He should be more then fresh and has a small workload. Pierce was also rested all year, and also isnt a guy who plays 35+ minutes.

I think its really silly to suggest these guys would be worn out or fatigued from a round 1 series with 1-2 games rest in between each game, and such short travel between destinations.

[MrLutareio]

Donaghy: Raps are up against Nets, and referees

http://www.sportsnet.ca/basketball/nba/ ... -referees/

[Prokorov]

man, the raps fans and media are really clinging to this refs thing. pretty sad.

[Scarface844]

man, the raps fans and media are really clinging to this refs thing. pretty sad.

People are dumb. I thought the 19 turnovers killed us. I will say though that all this talk about the refs being unfair puts a lot of pressure on them to start officiating fairly for both sides. A lot of touch fouls called on both sides.