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Grunfeld a Great GM. Proves Doubters Wrong

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Re: Grunfeld a Great GM. Proves Doubters Wrong 

Post#721 » by pineappleheadindc » Tue Apr 22, 2014 2:26 pm

hands11 wrote:
milellie111 wrote:
hands11 wrote:
right. Like that's difficult around here.

Look.. Let it go people. We have all offseason to bitch and moan. At least wait until this series is over.

Milli isn't doing anything other don't do. It's can't be one side can grind their axe and name call and Millie is called a troll for having an opposing view. That's BS.

How about we pick this up after we enjoy our playoff run.

A truce requires both sides dropping it. Not just one. It requires some olive branch extending.

You'll really want to be dragging this crap around instead of enjoying the playoffs ?



Thanks hands. But it is becoming apparent. A positive fan is either a "troll" or attempting to attract hostile responses. Seems twisted to me.


It is twisted. But I now have a working theory after reading Pines post on how to bait posters on other threads.

I think this board has a troll infestation.

It was a ripe audience to troll since the Wizards had been in such bad shape. I think some trolls showed up and mixed in presenting themselves as Wizards fans just to troll the board playing on the genuine Wizards fans who were emotionally vulnerable to it.

There goal is to stomp down any optimism because they want to control the message of negativity so they can keep Wiz fans wallowing in suffrage. They derail any conversation about anything good that is going on by changing it to how to franchise is doomed for failure.

Trolls are a clever, sick, twisted bunch that get off on others suffering.

But like I said to you earlier. Things will play out however they will play out. If the Wizards win this series, there will be more people chiming in the forum. I expect the trolls to rally back with how that still changes nothing because CHI was weak. Then off to IND or ATL and if we do well there, there will be more of the same. Then maybe we face MIA. But even winning that won't be enough because Wade it run down now. So off to the title series. And then what will be the message?

Yeah great. Still can't win a title and now what? They can't grow from here because TA is gone or if we sign him he will eat up all the cap. And Webster is over paid. Plus Nene will get injured next year and Otto was a bust of a pick. The team has no path forward. #sowizards. :lol:

Just except the board for what it is right now. There are some good posters here. If they win more, more fans will show up and those troll voices will slowly get drowned out and called out.

As for you wanting to have a positive contribution to the board. Post in an existing thread instead of starting a new one which just give them a new platform to troll the board. Tweak your title from EG is a great GM to something a little more timely like EG has been a good GM or just EG proves Doubter wrong because he hasn't been great. All of that might not be his fault, but that harder prove. If in time they do well enough to say he have because good or very good, that will be obvious so no need to push it right now.




Let me put it in simple terms for you, just so you understand.

A troll is someone who wants to disrupt convo and screw up the board. It has NOTHING to do with positivity or negativity. Absolutely nothing.

Someone who says "Yay - Ernie Grunfeld is a genius because he drafted Vesely #6 and bid against himself to sign Eric Maynor to essentially a 2-year contract" is a troll because it's obvious based on statistical, objective data that both moves are failures -- almost historic failures.

I can't believe I got baited into responding to you. Jeebus H. Christmas.

:roll:

Edited to add: "If you don't 100% support the Wizards owner, GM, and head coach then you're not a Wizards fan and you're a troll" is *exactly* the thing a troll would say. (It's akin to George W. Bush saying that if you don't 100% support the Iraq war, you don't support the troops.) And yes, you and your cohort are on record with such tripe.
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Re: Grunfeld a Great GM. Proves Doubters Wrong 

Post#722 » by noworriesinmd » Tue Apr 22, 2014 2:59 pm

Can't believe this thread is still going on <IGNORE>
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Re: Grunfeld a Great GM. Proves Doubters Wrong 

Post#723 » by MikeTheKid » Tue Apr 22, 2014 3:02 pm

milellie111 wrote:
hands11 wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:
You continue to post messages in the hope of attracting hostile responses - which you do quite well.


right. Like that's difficult around here.

Look.. Let it go people. We have all offseason to bitch and moan. At least wait until this series is over.

Milli isn't doing anything other don't do. It's can't be one side can grind their axe and name call and Millie is called a troll for having an opposing view. That's BS.

How about we pick this up after we enjoy our playoff run.

A truce requires both sides dropping it. Not just one. It requires some olive branch extending.

You'll really want to be dragging this crap around instead of enjoying the playoffs ?



Thanks hands. But it is becoming apparent. A postive fan is either a "troll" or attempting to attract hostile responses. Seems twisted to me.


I think I know who you are now, are you that old couple thats always on the kiss cam who've had season tickets like the past 35 years??? They sit in Section 118 I believe all the time

Or maybe your Rodney the announcer who really really sucks and needs to be canned

Anyway Im all for the truce as long as I dont see this thread until the playoffs are over. I think you re-up this thread after every win so Ted and Ernie can see it
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Re: Grunfeld a Great GM. Proves Doubters Wrong 

Post#724 » by ZaelleDC » Tue Apr 22, 2014 3:47 pm

I see no issues with Ernie Grunfeld. He has performed his job to a high level this year. The future looks very promising for the team. Wall, Beal and Porter will be cornerstone building blocks for the future.
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Re: Grunfeld a Great GM. Proves Doubters Wrong 

Post#725 » by Nivek » Tue Apr 22, 2014 3:59 pm

ZaelleDC wrote:I see no issues with Ernie Grunfeld. He has performed his job to a high level this year. The future looks very promising for the team. Wall, Beal and Porter will be cornerstone building blocks for the future.


First, Welcome to the board.

Now:

Really? No issues at all? Just looking at the moves he made since last season, his record has been meh at best.

The future could be promising, if Wall, Beal and Porter improve (a lot), and/or if Gortat, Nenê and Ariza are brought back AND don't decline/get hurt (again)/regress. Or if they're able to find replacements for those guys.
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Re: Grunfeld a Great GM. Proves Doubters Wrong 

Post#726 » by cwb3 » Tue Apr 22, 2014 4:00 pm

I am happy the Wizards made the playoffs. Was proud to see them end the regular season on a strong note, getting the 5th seed. Realizing the Nets tanked for a better first round matchup. Still was nice to see the Wizards win 4 in a row to end. Loved watching the 1st game against the Bulls. Was impressed by Wittman's coaching and the recent acquisitions paid dividends. I am rooting for a nice long playoff run for the Wizards.

I still want EG and Wittman gone at seasons end.

These two feelings are not mutually exclusive. I will enjoy the ride and hope for GM and Coach to be gone when the ride is over.
montestewart wrote:Players really should wait until they're rookie coaches to become GMs.
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Re: Grunfeld a Great GM. Proves Doubters Wrong 

Post#727 » by Dat2U » Tue Apr 22, 2014 4:01 pm

ZaelleDC wrote:I see no issues with Ernie Grunfeld. He has performed his job to a high level this year. The future looks very promising for the team. Wall, Beal and Porter will be cornerstone building blocks for the future.


Oh lord, it looks like Milleeeeee or whatever his name is has some company now. Maybe there should be one thread where these two & hands11 can have one big circle jerk.
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Re: Grunfeld a Great GM. Proves Doubters Wrong 

Post#728 » by Dat2U » Tue Apr 22, 2014 4:03 pm

cwb3 wrote:I am happy the Wizards made the playoffs. Was proud to see them end the regular season on a strong note, getting the 5th seed. Realizing the Nets tanked for a better first round matchup. Still was nice to see the Wizards win 4 in a row to end. Loved watching the 1st game against the Bulls. Was impressed by Wittman's coaching and the recent acquisitions paid dividends. I am rooting for a nice long playoff run for the Wizards.

I still want EG and Wittman gone at seasons end.

These two feelings are not mutually exclusive. I will enjoy the ride and hope for GM and Coach to be gone when the ride is over.


Preach! I don't think some people get this. It's ok to be excited and happy for the team but still want changes to be made going forward.
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Re: Grunfeld a Great GM. Proves Doubters Wrong 

Post#729 » by ZaelleDC » Tue Apr 22, 2014 4:21 pm

Nivek wrote:
ZaelleDC wrote:I see no issues with Ernie Grunfeld. He has performed his job to a high level this year. The future looks very promising for the team. Wall, Beal and Porter will be cornerstone building blocks for the future.


First, Welcome to the board.

Now:

Really? No issues at all? Just looking at the moves he made since last season, his record has been meh at best.

The future could be promising, if Wall, Beal and Porter improve (a lot), and/or if Gortat, Nenê and Ariza are brought back AND don't decline/get hurt (again)/regress. Or if they're able to find replacements for those guys.


Thanks.
Every GM has made some moves they may regret. Just part of the business. It's what you choose to focus on when you take into account the whole body of work and look at where the current direction of the team is headed.
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Re: Grunfeld a Great GM. Proves Doubters Wrong 

Post#730 » by MikeTheKid » Tue Apr 22, 2014 4:21 pm

Dat2U wrote:
cwb3 wrote:I am happy the Wizards made the playoffs. Was proud to see them end the regular season on a strong note, getting the 5th seed. Realizing the Nets tanked for a better first round matchup. Still was nice to see the Wizards win 4 in a row to end. Loved watching the 1st game against the Bulls. Was impressed by Wittman's coaching and the recent acquisitions paid dividends. I am rooting for a nice long playoff run for the Wizards.

I still want EG and Wittman gone at seasons end.

These two feelings are not mutually exclusive. I will enjoy the ride and hope for GM and Coach to be gone when the ride is over.


Preach! I don't think some people get this. It's ok to be excited and happy for the team but still want changes to be made going forward.


I would take a wild stab and say this is how 90% of Wiz posters feel but it only means were not true fans according to the Monumental posters here!!!
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Re: Grunfeld a Great GM. Proves Doubters Wrong 

Post#731 » by tontoz » Tue Apr 22, 2014 4:25 pm

ZaelleDC wrote:Thanks.
Every GM has made some moves they may regret. Just part of the business. It's what you choose to focus on when you take into account the whole body of work and look at where the current direction of the team is headed.



No GM has made as many blunders as EG and kept his job.

The direction of the team? Capped out and average. Let's all celebrate mediocrity since we are so used to suckage under EG.

:clap:
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Re: Grunfeld a Great GM. Proves Doubters Wrong 

Post#732 » by TGW » Tue Apr 22, 2014 4:28 pm

Wow...so the troll decided to open another account. Great...:roll:
Some random troll wrote:Not to sound negative, but this team is owned by an arrogant cheapskate, managed by a moron and coached by an idiot. Recipe for disaster.
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Re: Grunfeld a Great GM. Proves Doubters Wrong 

Post#733 » by Nivek » Tue Apr 22, 2014 4:44 pm

ZaelleDC wrote:
Nivek wrote:
ZaelleDC wrote:I see no issues with Ernie Grunfeld. He has performed his job to a high level this year. The future looks very promising for the team. Wall, Beal and Porter will be cornerstone building blocks for the future.


First, Welcome to the board.

Now:

Really? No issues at all? Just looking at the moves he made since last season, his record has been meh at best.

The future could be promising, if Wall, Beal and Porter improve (a lot), and/or if Gortat, Nenê and Ariza are brought back AND don't decline/get hurt (again)/regress. Or if they're able to find replacements for those guys.


Thanks.
Every GM has made some moves they may regret. Just part of the business. It's what you choose to focus on when you take into account the whole body of work and look at where the current direction of the team is headed.


When looking at the "whole body of work" we shouldn't be choosing what we're going to focus on -- we should be looking at the whole body of work. We should be looking at the fact that the Wizards have the league's third worst winning percentage during Grunfeld's tenure. We should be looking at all his moves -- good, bad and "standard."

And, when we project into the future, we can't look only at best-case scenarios -- assuming that the performance of older players will remain "about the same" for X number of years while simultaneously assuming young players will automatically improve. With some exceptions, athletes past 30 years old tend to get hurt more often, take longer to recover, and play worse than they did when they were younger. (And, we can't look only at worst-case scenarios either -- where the older players decline and get hurt, the youngsters don't improve, and Grunfeld keeps blundering in his personnel moves.)

Many young players improve, but some don't. It's not automatic. And it's not linear either.

But, back to Grunfeld, there really isn't a way for an intellectually honest observer to conclude he's done a good job. The ONLY way to arrive at that destination is to choose your focus. That focus would have to be pretty narrow, and it would have to leave out a bunch of information. It would be sorta like evaluating a player's scoring ability based only on his made shots.

As a fan of the team for more than three decades, I'm hoping Grunfeld can become a good GM because he's going to be the GM for the foreseeable future.
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Re: Grunfeld a Great GM. Proves Doubters Wrong 

Post#734 » by MikeTheKid » Tue Apr 22, 2014 4:55 pm

TGW wrote:Wow...so the troll decided to open another account. Great...:roll:


Works for Monumental, its all but assured now
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Re: Grunfeld a Great GM. Proves Doubters Wrong 

Post#735 » by MDStar » Tue Apr 22, 2014 7:17 pm

This is becoming quite the conundrum for me. On one hand (maybe 1 and a half) we have all of the terrible decisions that EG has made to where he should have been fired a long time ago. Moves which have been discussed and will continue to be discuss ad nauseam until EG is replaced. However on the other half hand, can I really say that the team built today is mediocre IF they go on to make a lot of noise in these playoffs? I'm not so sure.

This year has been pretty "all over the place" in terms of determining how we stack up against the competition, however in terms of talent, especially in our starters, we could possibly be in the top ten in the league. With this team i wouldn't be surprised if they lost the series to Chicago but I also wouldn't be surprised if they went all the way to the conference finals and played Miami to a game 7 for a chance to go to the finals. I just have no idea of how good or bad they truly are.
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Re: Grunfeld a Great GM. Proves Doubters Wrong 

Post#736 » by hands11 » Tue Apr 22, 2014 7:33 pm

MDStar wrote:This is becoming quite the conundrum for me. On one hand (maybe 1 and a half) we have all of the terrible decisions that EG has made to where he should have been fired a long time ago. Moves which have been discussed and will continue to be discuss ad nauseam until EG is replaced. However on the other half hand, can I really say that the team built today is mediocre IF they go on to make a lot of noise in these playoffs? I'm not so sure.

This year has been pretty "all over the place" in terms of determining how we stack up against the competition, however in terms of talent, especially in our starters, we could possibly be in the top ten in the league. With this team i wouldn't be surprised if they lost the series to Chicago but I also wouldn't be surprised if they went all the way to the conference finals and played Miami to a game 7 for a chance to go to the finals. I just have no idea of how good or bad they truly are.


Right. None of us do. That's why they play the games.

And we get to see another one tonight. And if they win it, things are looking better. But there will still be question until we play the next one.

One game at a time baby. More will be revealed.
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Re: Grunfeld a Great GM. Proves Doubters Wrong 

Post#737 » by milellie111 » Tue Apr 22, 2014 7:35 pm

MDStar wrote:This is becoming quite the conundrum for me. On one hand (maybe 1 and a half) we have all of the terrible decisions that EG has made to where he should have been fired a long time ago. Moves which have been discussed and will continue to be discuss ad nauseam until EG is replaced. However on the other half hand, can I really say that the team built today is mediocre IF they go on to make a lot of noise in these playoffs? I'm not so sure.

This year has been pretty "all over the place" in terms of determining how we stack up against the competition, however in terms of talent, especially in our starters, we could possibly be in the top ten in the league. With this team i wouldn't be surprised if they lost the series to Chicago but I also wouldn't be surprised if they went all the way to the conference finals and played Miami to a game 7 for a chance to go to the finals. I just have no idea of how good or bad they truly are.



Great points.So many are quick to say this team has underachieved and that the East is historically bad this year so it should be in the playoffs. This team is better than many think. Experts and analysts realize it. Unfortunately, the teams own fans are last to jump on board. I stand by my assertion that this is one of the better teams in the East. The Wizards can beat anyone.
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Re: Grunfeld a Great GM. Proves Doubters Wrong 

Post#738 » by Zonkerbl » Tue Apr 22, 2014 7:39 pm

I think this board, for whatever reason, has become unusually negative. All fan boards are bipolar to a certain extent but the level of negativity on this particular board (vs., say, bullets forever) is noticeably high.

I think we need more milellies and handses to cheer the place up a little.
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Re: Grunfeld a Great GM. Proves Doubters Wrong 

Post#739 » by Nivek » Tue Apr 22, 2014 7:41 pm

MDStar wrote:This is becoming quite the conundrum for me. On one hand (maybe 1 and a half) we have all of the terrible decisions that EG has made to where he should have been fired a long time ago. Moves which have been discussed and will continue to be discuss ad nauseam until EG is replaced. However on the other half hand, can I really say that the team built today is mediocre IF they go on to make a lot of noise in these playoffs? I'm not so sure.

This year has been pretty "all over the place" in terms of determining how we stack up against the competition, however in terms of talent, especially in our starters, we could possibly be in the top ten in the league. With this team i wouldn't be surprised if they lost the series to Chicago but I also wouldn't be surprised if they went all the way to the conference finals and played Miami to a game 7 for a chance to go to the finals. I just have no idea of how good or bad they truly are.


A playoff run would be nice, but the regular season still happened. It's in the books and it's not changing. And, against the league's easiest schedule, the Wizards had the 14th best record. A perfectly average team playing against Washington's schedule this season would win about 43-44 games (the Pythagorean formula spits out 43.3, which ain't exactly possible). That's not criticism of the Wizards -- they can only play the teams on their schedule. But, it doesn't change the reality that they were average during the regular season.

Also not changing is that key parts of the team are older and/or expiring. They're going to have to re-acquire Gortat, Ariza, Booker and Gooden (if they want them back). Or, they're going to have find adequate replacements. Then they'll be in the business of hoping the young guys (Wall, Beal, Porter) improve fast enough that they'll become outstanding players before the inevitable declines of Gortat, Nenê and Miller.

Even if they make a deep playoff run this season, the time for them to repeat that kind of run is pretty short.

But, this is a "conundrum" we can revisit at some point down the road. Maybe after game two of this first round series against Chicago.

As an aside, I'm reminded of this thing that I wrote back in 2011.
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Re: Grunfeld a Great GM. Proves Doubters Wrong 

Post#740 » by hands11 » Tue Apr 22, 2014 7:43 pm

ZaelleDC wrote:
Nivek wrote:
ZaelleDC wrote:I see no issues with Ernie Grunfeld. He has performed his job to a high level this year. The future looks very promising for the team. Wall, Beal and Porter will be cornerstone building blocks for the future.


First, Welcome to the board.

Now:

Really? No issues at all? Just looking at the moves he made since last season, his record has been meh at best.

The future could be promising, if Wall, Beal and Porter improve (a lot), and/or if Gortat, Nenê and Ariza are brought back AND don't decline/get hurt (again)/regress. Or if they're able to find replacements for those guys.


Thanks.
Every GM has made some moves they may regret. Just part of the business. It's what you choose to focus on when you take into account the whole body of work and look at where the current direction of the team is headed.


Right. Just heard Chuck and the gang talking about the Chicago 2006 draft.

Blazers trade Viktor Khryapa + #4 to Chicago for #2 and the Chicago 2007 2nd rounder.

Who did the Bull get at #4 ? - Tyrus Thomas
Who did POR get at #2 ? - LaMarcus Aldridge

:clap: :nonono:

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