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Grunfeld a Great GM. Proves Doubters Wrong

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Re: Grunfeld a Great GM. Proves Doubters Wrong 

Post#761 » by hands11 » Wed Apr 23, 2014 2:08 pm

Chaos Revenant wrote:Outside Wall turning into Chris Paul, Beal turning into Ray Allen, and Porter turning into Paul George with a mid-range game, what is our path to long-term title contention? For all the Grunfeld supporters.

The delusional in the Wizards fanbase consistently ignores glaring problems with the team in favor of magical optimism fairies that assume things just work out for us if we hope and believe hard enough. It's been like this since I joined the board.


The road from A to Z is not always a straight line and its always involves some luck. But luck rarely happens in total isolation.

One of my major concerns regarding EG was could he assemble a team where the whole was greater then the pieces. Could he find the right blend of not just talent, but personalities so the team had an strong identity and played for each other. Because to be great in the NBA, it takes a TEAM.

Well he seems to have actually done a pretty good job of that.

Wall was kind of piss and vinegar type coming out of collage, but the vets they put around him have helped bring out the best in him and molded him toward the better part of his character. He has grown as a leader and become more level headed as a player. I don't think that happens the same way with NY and McGee on the floor with him over Nene, Okafor, TA and Webster.

Beals personality was a real nice fit next to Walls.

Nene is like the tough dad. Great power post piece and he can pass. He is a match up nightmare most nights.

Gortat fits great with his Polish Pride Hammer/Machine stuff. He is a focused professional with the right message. He takes on challenges.

TA is quiet and level headed about everything. Every game is just one game. Never high. Never low. Title exp, 3 ball and defense. Great fit

And the last two pieces were great moves. The Professor fits great here. Another quiet experienced player. His size is a match up problem for most teams. There is a lot Wall can learn from him.

The team could have better legs in the 2nd unit. A DJ or Taj would be great. But look at what they have and how it blends together not what they don't have or missed on. There is a lot to like about how the team is currently assembled.

Its a defensive team that can also hit the 3 and has a post presence. They can also fast break. And they are united. The personalities fit together. They have younger players like Wall and Beal with seasoned vets.

There is actually a lot of good stuff in how it is assembled if you take a step back. And they are getting better. They are peaking at the right time.
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Re: Grunfeld a Great GM. Proves Doubters Wrong 

Post#762 » by dckingsfan » Wed Apr 23, 2014 2:12 pm

Chaos Revenant wrote:Outside Wall turning into Chris Paul, Beal turning into Ray Allen, and Porter turning into Paul George with a mid-range game, what is our path to long-term title contention? For all the Grunfeld supporters.

The delusional in the Wizards fanbase consistently ignores glaring problems with the team in favor of magical optimism fairies that assume things just work out for us if we hope and believe hard enough. It's been like this since I joined the board.


fan or fanatic (n.) A person marked or motivated by an extreme, unreasoning enthusiasm, as for a cause.
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Re: Grunfeld a Great GM. Proves Doubters Wrong 

Post#763 » by MikeTheKid » Wed Apr 23, 2014 2:15 pm

hands11 wrote:
MikeTheKid wrote:
milellie111 wrote:
I have been posting in the game threads. I am not trolling. I am just as excited as you are. You obviously have a personal issue with Grunfeld if you can't accept the fact he deserves credit. The players won the game yes. But who brought these players in here genius?


Who gives a flying **** about Grunfeld right now, who says he'll even be back. Save it for the offseason and stop bumping this BS thread after every win, thats trolling. You could say what you gotta say in the GT and move on, no your still trying to prove your point in this thread give it a rest and enjoy the win. It was a helluva game leave it at that we know you love your Monumental comrades its cool we've been in this same thread arguing for months please just give it a rest. Were seeing our kids in the backcourt become men right now.


I was for letting this thread go until after they win the series if they do but since that didn't happen.

Question.

Would you be posting in the Count down to EG getting Fired thread if they were 0-2 ?
Would you also be posting in the Ted sucks ?

If things flip and they lose the next two games, will you be coming out with both barrels flaming this thread and posting in those other two as well ?


No Hands because I called truce, I'll wait until the season is over to vent and I'll just leave it in the GT. But it looks like Witt and EG are staying unless Witt is the hot commodity some columnists are saying. EG, I could care less right now, Im loving the play of the players right now and Witt's coaching (Cant believe I said that)
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Re: Grunfeld a Great GM. Proves Doubters Wrong 

Post#764 » by DCZards » Wed Apr 23, 2014 3:09 pm

Chaos Revenant wrote:Outside Wall turning into Chris Paul, Beal turning into Ray Allen, and Porter turning into Paul George with a mid-range game, what is our path to long-term title contention? For all the Grunfeld supporters.

The delusional in the Wizards fanbase consistently ignores glaring problems with the team in favor of magical optimism fairies that assume things just work out for us if we hope and believe hard enough. It's been like this since I joined the board.


Two questions:

First, if one liked the trades for Ariza/Okafor, Nene and Gortat, the move up to draft Booker, and the pick up of Miller but hated how Ves turned out as the sixth pick or the fact that Singleton and Seraphin have not panned out, does that make you a EG supporter or hater?

Second, what exactly are the "glaring problems" and why do you assume things can't work out? Isn't that just as bad as assuming that things will work out?
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Re: Grunfeld a Great GM. Proves Doubters Wrong 

Post#765 » by ZaelleDC » Wed Apr 23, 2014 3:23 pm

My 2 cents:

Swapping McGee for Nene and ridding ourselves of Nick Young.

Trading Arenas for Rashard Lewis then swapping Lewis for Okafor and Ariza. Trading Okafor for Gortat.

Trading Vesely for Andre Miller.

Everyone one that was traded for are currently all impact players which have led to impending playoff success.

Pretty good resume if you ask me.
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Re: Grunfeld a Great GM. Proves Doubters Wrong 

Post#766 » by mohammed10 » Wed Apr 23, 2014 3:26 pm

I can see Ernie in his office now...

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With sixty seconds’ worth of distance run,
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And—which is more—you’ll be a Man, my son!

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Re: Grunfeld a Great GM. Proves Doubters Wrong 

Post#767 » by Nivek » Wed Apr 23, 2014 3:30 pm

ZaelleDC wrote:My 2 cents:

Swapping McGee for Nene and ridding ourselves of Nick Young.

Trading Arenas for Rashard Lewis then swapping Lewis for Okafor and Ariza. Trading Okafor for Gortat.

Trading Vesely for Andre Miller.

Everyone one that was traded for are currently all impact players which have led to impending playoff success.

Pretty good resume if you ask me.


Kinda interesting what you left out.

Like, the 1st round pick that went for Gortat.

Like the debaculous signing of Eric Maynor.

Like the 2nd round pick included in the deal to get Maynor.

Like not addressing frontcourt depth in the offseason, even though it was a glaring need.

So basically, this "good resume" includes using near-max cap space, a failed 1st round pick, a failed free agent signing, a future 1st round pick, and a future 2nd round pick to come away with Ariza, Gortat and Miller. Ariza and Gortat being guys who must be re-acquired in the offseason using max cap space, and Miller being 37 years old.
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Re: Grunfeld a Great GM. Proves Doubters Wrong 

Post#768 » by nate33 » Wed Apr 23, 2014 3:35 pm

ZaelleDC wrote:My 2 cents:

Swapping McGee for Nene who costs $13M a year and misses an average of 25 games a year, and ridding ourselves of Nick Young.

Trading Arenas for Rashard Lewis then swapping Lewis and the $14M in pure cap room generated by his buyout for Okafor and Ariza. Trading Okafor plus our 2014 1st round pick for Gortat and $6.4M in ghost salary contracts, one of whom was Kendall Marshall who we cut and he went on to start for the Lakers.

Trading Vesely, the guy EG drafted with the #6 overall pick, for Andre Miller.

Everyone one that was traded for are currently all impact players which have led to impending playoff success.

Pretty good resume if you ask me.


Fixed.
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Re: Grunfeld a Great GM. Proves Doubters Wrong 

Post#769 » by ZaelleDC » Wed Apr 23, 2014 3:37 pm

Nivek wrote:
ZaelleDC wrote:My 2 cents:

Swapping McGee for Nene and ridding ourselves of Nick Young.

Trading Arenas for Rashard Lewis then swapping Lewis for Okafor and Ariza. Trading Okafor for Gortat.

Trading Vesely for Andre Miller.

Everyone one that was traded for are currently all impact players which have led to impending playoff success.

Pretty good resume if you ask me.


Kinda interesting what you left out.

Like, the 1st round pick that went for Gortat.

Like the debaculous signing of Eric Maynor.

Like the 2nd round pick included in the deal to get Maynor.

Like not addressing frontcourt depth in the offseason, even though it was a glaring need.

So basically, this "good resume" includes using near-max cap space, a failed 1st round pick, a failed free agent signing, a future 1st round pick, and a future 2nd round pick to come away with Ariza, Gortat and Miller. Ariza and Gortat being guys who must be re-acquired in the offseason using max cap space, and Miller being 37 years old.


Your point??

Results are what matters most.

In case you've been living in the past:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/playoffs/2014/04/23/john-wall-bradley-beal-washington-wizards-vs-chicago-bulls-game-2/8041061/

http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=400553098
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Re: Grunfeld a Great GM. Proves Doubters Wrong 

Post#770 » by Nivek » Wed Apr 23, 2014 3:41 pm

ZaelleDC wrote:
Nivek wrote:
ZaelleDC wrote:My 2 cents:

Swapping McGee for Nene and ridding ourselves of Nick Young.

Trading Arenas for Rashard Lewis then swapping Lewis for Okafor and Ariza. Trading Okafor for Gortat.

Trading Vesely for Andre Miller.

Everyone one that was traded for are currently all impact players which have led to impending playoff success.

Pretty good resume if you ask me.


Kinda interesting what you left out.

Like, the 1st round pick that went for Gortat.

Like the debaculous signing of Eric Maynor.

Like the 2nd round pick included in the deal to get Maynor.

Like not addressing frontcourt depth in the offseason, even though it was a glaring need.

So basically, this "good resume" includes using near-max cap space, a failed 1st round pick, a failed free agent signing, a future 1st round pick, and a future 2nd round pick to come away with Ariza, Gortat and Miller. Ariza and Gortat being guys who must be re-acquired in the offseason using max cap space, and Miller being 37 years old.


Your point??

Results are what matters most.

In case you've been living in the past:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/playoffs/2014/04/23/john-wall-bradley-beal-washington-wizards-vs-chicago-bulls-game-2/8041061/

http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=400553098


I thought you were Mr. "Let's Look at the Whole Record". Turns out you're Mr. Let's Look Only At The Moves I've Deemed To Be Good (and let's not even look at the full cost of those moves).

Glad we could clear that up.
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Re: Grunfeld a Great GM. Proves Doubters Wrong 

Post#771 » by Dat2U » Wed Apr 23, 2014 3:45 pm

ZaelleDC wrote:
Nivek wrote:
ZaelleDC wrote:My 2 cents:

Swapping McGee for Nene and ridding ourselves of Nick Young.

Trading Arenas for Rashard Lewis then swapping Lewis for Okafor and Ariza. Trading Okafor for Gortat.

Trading Vesely for Andre Miller.

Everyone one that was traded for are currently all impact players which have led to impending playoff success.

Pretty good resume if you ask me.


Kinda interesting what you left out.

Like, the 1st round pick that went for Gortat.

Like the debaculous signing of Eric Maynor.

Like the 2nd round pick included in the deal to get Maynor.

Like not addressing frontcourt depth in the offseason, even though it was a glaring need.

So basically, this "good resume" includes using near-max cap space, a failed 1st round pick, a failed free agent signing, a future 1st round pick, and a future 2nd round pick to come away with Ariza, Gortat and Miller. Ariza and Gortat being guys who must be re-acquired in the offseason using max cap space, and Miller being 37 years old.


Your point??

Results are what matters most.

In case you've been living in the past:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/playoffs/2014/04/23/john-wall-bradley-beal-washington-wizards-vs-chicago-bulls-game-2/8041061/

http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=400553098


Who gives a flying f*ck? Seriously??? Why can't we enjoy the best morning after as Wizards fans since Arenas hit that dagger against the Bulls years ago without this self-flagellation exercise that you & Milllleeee seem so invested in performing every time we win. It's pathetic. It's sad and if you work for Monumental, your doing a terrible job of bringing anyone to see your side of things.
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Re: Grunfeld a Great GM. Proves Doubters Wrong 

Post#772 » by TGW » Wed Apr 23, 2014 3:51 pm

Dat...it's one and the same troll. I suggest you use the ignore function on both those accounts.
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Re: Grunfeld a Great GM. Proves Doubters Wrong 

Post#773 » by DCZards » Wed Apr 23, 2014 3:52 pm



Thanks for posting this. Always nice to see our Zards getting some national love and attention. Especially like the "we're still underdogs" attitude of our players and Randy's focus on playing good "D" first and foremost.
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Re: Grunfeld a Great GM. Proves Doubters Wrong 

Post#774 » by ZaelleDC » Wed Apr 23, 2014 3:54 pm

Dat2U wrote:
ZaelleDC wrote:
Nivek wrote:
Kinda interesting what you left out.

Like, the 1st round pick that went for Gortat.

Like the debaculous signing of Eric Maynor.

Like the 2nd round pick included in the deal to get Maynor.

Like not addressing frontcourt depth in the offseason, even though it was a glaring need.

So basically, this "good resume" includes using near-max cap space, a failed 1st round pick, a failed free agent signing, a future 1st round pick, and a future 2nd round pick to come away with Ariza, Gortat and Miller. Ariza and Gortat being guys who must be re-acquired in the offseason using max cap space, and Miller being 37 years old.


Your point??

Results are what matters most.

In case you've been living in the past:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/playoffs/2014/04/23/john-wall-bradley-beal-washington-wizards-vs-chicago-bulls-game-2/8041061/

http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=400553098


Who gives a flying f*ck? Seriously??? Why can't we enjoy the best morning after as Wizards fans since Arenas hit that dagger against the Bulls years ago without this self-flagellation exercise that you & Milllleeee seem so invested in performing every time we win. It's pathetic. It's sad and if you work for Monumental, your doing a terrible job of bringing anyone to see your side of things.


First: What's your deal?

Second: I am enjoying the win. Can I do that and still post in a thread as well?

Third: I have no affiliation with Monumental Sports nor am I associated with Ted Leonsis.
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Re: Grunfeld a Great GM. Proves Doubters Wrong 

Post#775 » by Silvie Lysandra » Wed Apr 23, 2014 4:02 pm

hands11 wrote:
Chaos Revenant wrote:Outside Wall turning into Chris Paul, Beal turning into Ray Allen, and Porter turning into Paul George with a mid-range game, what is our path to long-term title contention? For all the Grunfeld supporters.

The delusional in the Wizards fanbase consistently ignores glaring problems with the team in favor of magical optimism fairies that assume things just work out for us if we hope and believe hard enough. It's been like this since I joined the board.


The road from A to Z is not always a straight line and its always involves some luck. But luck rarely happens in total isolation.

cue typical hands11 psychobabble




As always, your posts are pure Faulkner. Sound and fury, signifying nothing. There's no substance here. No hard evidence. Just wishy washy hopeful thinking about personalty. You didn't say a word about talent or prodution or wins, just how much you like their personalities.

I like Wall and Beal and they have the talent to be star level players if not super star level players. I think Porter has talent. But I'm realistic about the situation - they could all be studs, or they could all never make a big leap from where they are now. But that doesn't say anything about our team compsotion, or future prospects, the talent on our roster, etc.

We need to deal in hard facts and not hopey changey feelings. Regardless of whether we beat Chicago, the long-term prognosis of this team is a team that is either going to take a step back in order to keep cap flexibility, or tie up or financial flexibility to keep together a team that won 44 games in a historically weak East and which has a lot of teams that will be making huge improvements, like Philly and Milwaukee, with the entire frontcourt either near or at the wrong side of 30. All the hope, optimism, denial and pop psych in the world isn't going to change hard facts.

Second, what exactly are the "glaring problems" and why do you assume things can't work out? Isn't that just as bad as assuming that things will work out?



We have a badly constructed team with no young talent outside Beal, Wall and maybe Porter, we have ZERO potential in terms of bigs and all our talent is concentrated at the perimeter, and really our only hope for championship level improvement is for Wall to go from his current level to CP3, and Beal to become Ray Allen, and then on top of that lure Durant, which imo is a 10% chance atm. Nene and Gortat are old and not going to be big contributors in the long term. We have no first round pick and Grunfield hasn't gotten anything out of a 2nd since Blatche.

Basically we COULD be a title contending team but we need a bunch of dice to come up 6s, which is a result of enormous resource wastage by Ernie/
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Re: Grunfeld a Great GM. Proves Doubters Wrong 

Post#776 » by MikeTheKid » Wed Apr 23, 2014 4:03 pm



I think the point your missing is the results are happening only after Ernie failed twice on rebuilding then finally fixed his messes by sacrificing more capspace and draft picks!!!
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Re: Grunfeld a Great GM. Proves Doubters Wrong 

Post#777 » by DCZards » Wed Apr 23, 2014 4:27 pm

Chaos Revenant wrote:
We have a badly constructed team with no young talent outside Beal, Wall and maybe Porter, we have ZERO potential in terms of bigs and all our talent is concentrated at the perimeter, and really our only hope for championship level improvement is for Wall to go from his current level to CP3, and Beal to become Ray Allen, and then on top of that lure Durant, which imo is a 10% chance atm. Nene and Gortat are old and not going to be big contributors in the long term. We have no first round pick and Grunfield hasn't gotten anything out of a 2nd since Blatche.

Basically we COULD be a title contending team but we need a bunch of dice to come up 6s, which is a result of enormous resource wastage by Ernie/



This "old" team narrative is, quite frankly, getting a little old. Gortat is not really that old at 30, and he's likely just reaching his prime. Marcin stays in great shape (only missed one game all season) and he played limited minutes his first several years in the NBA. Yes, Nene's health--more than his age--is a major concern. But if the Zards can bring in a quality big (a healthy Okafor?) to backup Nene so that he can play limited minutes/games during the regular season and be fresh (and healthy) for the playoffs...that would be a good thing.

Just about every playoff team has one or two 30 or older players (so-called "old" guys) who are significant contributors. You really don't even sniff the playoffs when you're counting solely on players in the 20-25 year old range.

You want a team made up almost solely of youngins? Well, then you want to be the Bucks or the Sixers...who ain't winning nothing in the near future.

This Zards team has fantastic chemistry...and I don't see it taking some kind of minor miracle--especially given what we have in Wall and Beal--for it to continue to improve.
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Re: Grunfeld a Great GM. Proves Doubters Wrong 

Post#778 » by Brenice » Wed Apr 23, 2014 4:47 pm

MikeTheKid wrote:I think the point your missing is the results are happening only after Ernie failed twice on rebuilding then finally fixed his messes by sacrificing more capspace and draft picks!!!


Everybody knows Ernie's failings. But bottom line is this, Ernie will not be fired no matter how much people whine, because the Wizards are likely to exceed expectation this season.

And who would this cap-space you mention have been used on? LeBron? A big? Who? Okafor may be available next year. I get it. They should have waited to this off-season and hope Gortat would choose the Wizards, thus still having the first round pick in this so-called stacked draft.....But with this draft pick....

Who would you want to draft and how do you get that person? They need a young big. They don't need any starting guards or small forwards. Tank? But if you not getting a top 2 pick where you can select Embid, NOBODY ELSE would be much help to the Wizards anytime soon.
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Re: Grunfeld a Great GM. Proves Doubters Wrong 

Post#779 » by leswizards » Wed Apr 23, 2014 5:06 pm

DCZards wrote:Two questions:

First, if one liked the trades for Ariza/Okafor, Nene and Gortat, the move up to draft Booker, and the pick up of Miller but hated how Ves turned out as the sixth pick or the fact that Singleton and Seraphin have not panned out, does that make you a EG supporter or hater?

Second, what exactly are the "glaring problems" and why do you assume things can't work out? Isn't that just as bad as assuming that things will work out?


I want EG fired. I only apply the term hater to myself as a shorthand way to differentiate between the supporters and those who want him gone.

My impression was that Ted didn't want to pay Rashard $13 million dollars to do nothing, and given that, whether I would have done the Ariza/Okafor trade, I have never really held that against EG.

Injuries and all, Nene has been an upgrade over Nick and McGee. The Nene trade is hard to judge. Yes, the Wizards got more out of it, but could they have gotten more by letting Nick and McGee walk. That is a hard question to answer.

I wouldn't have done the Gortat trade, but I can understand why fans appreciate it, especially now that they are doing so well in the playoffs.

Everything else, I am agreement with you more or less. I would say we are pretty close to seeing things the same way.
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Re: Grunfeld a Great GM. Proves Doubters Wrong 

Post#780 » by TGW » Wed Apr 23, 2014 5:08 pm

Zards, I don't disagree with most of what you said...having some vets is okay. I think the issue is that we don't have a contingency plan when Nene and Gortat misses games and starts to decline. We don't have that young, promising frontcourt player that we are developing for the future. Gortat is 30+, and as Kevin said on multiple occasions, chances are hegets worse from here on out. I mean, look at Okafor for example...he kept himself in great shape, but it didn't matter. Age took its toll on the guy.

With no first round pick this year and likely no capspace, we still aren't going to add that player this year.

And for the record, I still wouldn't have done the Gortat deal. I would have ran with what we had, which was enough for the 7th or 8th seed. If we wanted Gort over the summer, we could have signed him then IMHO.
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