Phil Jackson w/ Media

[NYKat]

But i do feel they shouldnt have been this bad, and at best was a .500 club, which ironically was the team last year even with much better IQ'ed older cats.

But if the debate is whether they have talent...of course they do...all teams do.

but they dont have talent to compete consistently and no coaching can change that.

and this is where i vehemently disagree.

As much as some are taking Phil's words of saying there's talent on this team, he also said a few weeks ago that the team is searching for talent.

His exact quote when the Knicks somehow allowed 51 points in a single quarter to the Lakers....“We’re in a talent hunt. We have to bring in talent.”

Here's another Phil quote since we're picking and choosing...

Jackson said he had been told that whatever success the Knicks had in winning 37 games, down from 54 the previous season, it was based “on talent, basically, not with team play.” He added, “Which I thought was an accurate statement.”

^^^^This one i just tend to agree with

[ca1]

Here is the thing, we had the "talent" to cause noise in the playoffs this year. I know ppl dont believe it, but we did. Where the negativity came from was that the Knicks MASSIVELY UNDERPERFORMED THIS YEAR. I do not believe we where as bad as the record states bc lets face it we where 7-17 in games decided by 3 points or less. thats 17 losses that could have easily been switched. Last year we only lost 9 of those. That is a 8 game difference. So its not like we where blown out all season, the Knicks where in a position to win these games and fell apart in the end. I DO AGREE that is attributed to a HUGE LACK OF LEADERSHIP from MELO/CHANDLER/WOODSON. This year the Knicks had no composure when things got rough and it translates to losses. We forget about the games last year that Kidd calmed the KNicks on the floor when the other team was making a run, or the lil plays that kept the KNicks in the game. We had none of that this year. If you watched the games, when things went downhill everyone when solo and reverted to just hoisting bad shots. That is not something teams with strong foundations in leadership do. If you watch the Spurs, they stick to the game-plan and offense. This year's team clearly was devoid of any real direction and our record reflected. When a team comes out flat as many times as we did last year that always translates to lack of motivation which equals lack of leadership.

So with that being said I do agree that our players "talent" level wasnt horrible. It was fully capable of winning 45+ games this year..however when you have ABSOLUTELY NO LEADERSHIP/DIRECTION you get what we saw this season.
Our future is brighter than some want to believe and I am interested to see what and where PJAX takes us.

[NYKat]

Beyond leadership, the roster is very flawed. You need balance. Knicks have too many low IQ, shoot first, one way players on the team. We missed Kidd’s passing and IQ more then leadership

I think its the opposite of the type of team Phil wants. I would expect him to bring in more high IQ, all around players.

Not sure how much change Phil can pull off in the offseason, but I'd expect him to at least bring in some cheap role players that fit his style. And eventually the roster will be rebuilt.

We had most of this same low IQ, shoot first, one way players in 2013. The lack of leadership was the difference so was the roster flawed, very slightly, but not enough to the primary cause of this collapse, it was more mental than technical, and I don't think many people put enough emphasis on the intangibles that go into winning.

Here's what Phil wants: a system.

A blueprint set of principles to fall back on, during the game, so we don't live and die by shots falling.

The team is filled with vets. That they can't lead or need more leaders says a lot about how flawed the roster is. Lack of leadership is mostly an excuse that ignores the bigger problems with the roster.

Phil wants a system, but also wants players that fit that system.

Ironically, I actually feel vice versa from the highlighted-- Blaming the talent on the roster is an excuse that ignores the bigger problem of lack of leadership.

...but the difference between 12-13 and 13-14 is leadership. The talent on the roster didn't change hardly at all. The results did.

[NYKat]

Here is the thing, we had the "talent" to cause noise in the playoffs this year. I know ppl dont believe it, but we did. Where the negativity came from was that the Knicks MASSIVELY UNDERPERFORMED THIS YEAR. I do not believe we where as bad as the record states bc lets face it we where 7-17 in games decided by 3 points or less. thats 17 losses that could have easily been switched. Last year we only lost 9 of those. That is a 8 game difference. So its not like we where blown out all season, the Knicks where in a position to win these games and fell apart in the end. I DO AGREE that is attributed to a HUGE LACK OF LEADERSHIP from MELO/CHANDLER/WOODSON. This year the Knicks had no composure when things got rough and it translates to losses. We forget about the games last year that Kidd calmed the KNicks on the floor when the other team was making a run, or the lil plays that kept the KNicks in the game. We had none of that this year. If you watched the games, when things went downhill everyone when solo and reverted to just hoisting bad shots. That is not something teams with strong foundations in leadership do. If you watch the Spurs, they stick to the game-plan and offense. This year's team clearly was devoid of any real direction and our record reflected. When a team comes out flat as many times as we did last year that always translates to lack of motivation which equals lack of leadership.

So with that being said I do agree that our players "talent" level wasnt horrible. It was fully capable of winning 45+ games this year..however when you have ABSOLUTELY NO LEADERSHIP/DIRECTION you get what we saw this season.
Our future is brighter than some want to believe and I am interested to see what and where PJAX takes us.

Wish i could give you 1000 and1's. This is my point damn near to a T.

[Deeeez Knicks]

We had most of this same low IQ, shoot first, one way players in 2013. The lack of leadership was the difference so was the roster flawed, very slightly, but not enough to the primary cause of this collapse, it was more mental than technical, and I don't think many people put enough emphasis on the intangibles that go into winning.

Here's what Phil wants: a system.

A blueprint set of principles to fall back on, during the game, so we don't live and die by shots falling.

The team is filled with vets. That they can't lead or need more leaders says a lot about how flawed the roster is. Lack of leadership is mostly an excuse that ignores the bigger problems with the roster.

Phil wants a system, but also wants players that fit that system.

Ironically, I actually feel vice versa from the highlighted-- Blaming the talent on the roster is an excuse that ignores the bigger problem of lack of leadership.

...but the difference between 12-13 and 13-14 is leadership. The talent on the roster didn't change hardly at all. The results did.

This team has 2 above average starters: Melo and Chandler. Nobody else on the roster is an above average starter. That is a talent problem.

Just compare our starters to the Raptors. They beat us 4 out 5.

[F N 11]

I Bet everyone is looking at Lamarcus Aldridge now

[ibraheim718]

So with that being said I do agree that our players "talent" level wasnt horrible.

Wish i could give you 1000 and1's. This is my point damn near to a T.

So you're going to back pedal from saying the roster is a roster capable of contending to now agreeing that the "talent level wasn't horrible".

And let me ask you a question.. You don't think leadership falls under the umbrella of talent? Not everyone can lead and those that can (and remember we had an all time great who was purported to be the team leader last year, we had HCA, were the favorite to beat Indiana and still lost) are truly gifted in that respect.

[ORANGEandBLUE]

[

But good leadership is essential to having a good team and a good team is the difference between going from a 9th seeded team to a 2nd seeded team and vice versa for lack of leadership.

Here's the thing, we weren't a good team, cause we didn't play like one. The roster has always been very f*cking good, though. All the pieces are there, the lack of sound leadership prevented us from meshing as a team.

We had great leadership in 12-13 and we were still a mediocre team whenever Kidd/Sheed/K-mart weren't playing out of their minds. The pieces are not there. We lack reliable interior scoring except for once in a blue moon where Stat is healthy. We only have one guy who is even remotely capable of breaking down the defense and getting to the line. Our "shooters" always go cold in the playoffs. Our roster consists mostly of guys who have been mediocre to abysmal defenders for their entire careers, even under good coaching and leadership. Our best line-ups have been woefully undersized with 1's playing 2, 2's playing 3, and 3's playing 4. Aside from Tyson, we have no size or rim protection.

[ORANGEandBLUE]

Here is the thing, we had the "talent" to cause noise in the playoffs this year. I know ppl dont believe it, but we did. Where the negativity came from was that the Knicks MASSIVELY UNDERPERFORMED THIS YEAR. I do not believe we where as bad as the record states bc lets face it we where 7-17 in games decided by 3 points or less. thats 17 losses that could have easily been switched. Last year we only lost 9 of those. That is a 8 game difference. So its not like we where blown out all season, the Knicks where in a position to win these games and fell apart in the end. I DO AGREE that is attributed to a HUGE LACK OF LEADERSHIP from MELO/CHANDLER/WOODSON. This year the Knicks had no composure when things got rough and it translates to losses. We forget about the games last year that Kidd calmed the KNicks on the floor when the other team was making a run, or the lil plays that kept the KNicks in the game. We had none of that this year. If you watched the games, when things went downhill everyone when solo and reverted to just hoisting bad shots. That is not something teams with strong foundations in leadership do. If you watch the Spurs, they stick to the game-plan and offense. This year's team clearly was devoid of any real direction and our record reflected. When a team comes out flat as many times as we did last year that always translates to lack of motivation which equals lack of leadership.

So with that being said I do agree that our players "talent" level wasnt horrible. It was fully capable of winning 45+ games this year..however when you have ABSOLUTELY NO LEADERSHIP/DIRECTION you get what we saw this season.
Our future is brighter than some want to believe and I am interested to see what and where PJAX takes us.

I blame this on Felton. You can't run plays when your PG can't turn the corner and basically has to turn his back to the basket 30 ft. away just to avoid getting stripped. We don't have any ball-handlers other than Melo who can be trusted to run the offense. How is this going to be any different next year? Are we just going to cross our fingers and hope Felton shows up? Are we going to sign another journey-man PG with the mmle and hope he mutates into a starter?

[ORANGEandBLUE]

And look, even if we can "make some noise" in the playoffs, why on earth should that be a basis for holding back from moves that could enable us to make a lot more noise once we can add more pieces next summer? There have been plenty of teams who were capable of making noise but nonetheless decided to retool.

[ORANGEandBLUE]

2011 Blazers had talent too. Didn't stop them from trading some of that talent for the pick that became Lilliard. And now they have no need to throw out the "but we have talent" excuse.

[ca1]

And look, even if we can "make some noise" in the playoffs, why on earth should that be a basis for holding back from moves that could enable us to make a lot more noise once we can add more pieces next summer? There have been plenty of teams who were capable of making noise but nonetheless decided to retool.

To be honest I dont know what you are asking. I never said we shouldnt make moves lol
Im am not saying it should hold us back. I am just merely commenting on the ppl who think this roster is complete garbage ... which I disagree with. ALso realistically speaking..if Melo resigns we re really in ways limited in what we do with our roster..trust me I am hoping that someone takes chandler + felton off our hands bc as I have stated in the past Felton was horrible this year and the primarily culprit for our perimeter defense and our offense stalling. however, I will believe it when I see it when it comes to a team making a deal wit hthe Knicks that will help us. If we dont make a deal then the sky isnt falling. Lets be honest no team with a supposed "superstar" in melo should ever not make the playoffs. I think if we arent able to swing something this offseason that we will be competitive next year with proper management and leadership.
Just think about it..do you think if we where a 8 seed right now against the struggling Pacers that we wouldnt have a legitimate chance of winning? Honestly they are playing like we did in the beginning of the year and us visa vera..

[ibraheim718]

Don't be surprised if the name Quin Snyder comes up in the coaching search.

[GONYK]

2011 Blazers had talent too. Didn't stop them from trading some of that talent for the pick that became Lilliard. And now they have no need to throw out the "but we have talent" excuse.

If a team offers us a lotto pick for a garbage player with a garbage contract that we are dying to get rid of, I'd do it in a second too

[ca1]

2011 Blazers had talent too. Didn't stop them from trading some of that talent for the pick that became Lilliard. And now they have no need to throw out the "but we have talent" excuse.

If a team offers us a lotto pick for a garbage player with a garbage contract that we are dying to get rid of, I'd do it in a second too

exaclty lol thats why I didnt get that reference lol

[ORANGEandBLUE]

Ok fair enough.. we probably should hold off on trading Tyson until Billy King gets hired by a team that will actually trade with us.