What does demar derozan have to do to become the best raptor

raptorstime · Post #41 » by **raptorstime** » Sat Apr 26, 2014 7:00 am

Pound the rock and get better everyday.

UnderdogRaptors · Post #42 » by **UnderdogRaptors** » Sat Apr 26, 2014 7:01 am

DemarEvolution wrote:
UnderdogRaptors wrote:
DemarEvolution wrote:
that's a bit of a stretch isn't it? Vince was a superstar.

Lead the team to a franchise record + division crown I think he's the goat raptor

clearly you don't watch much basketball...the eastern conference was ridiculously weak.

Don't matter he did it, no need to nitpick it's not his fault the other teams are ass

BlackIce · Post #43 » by **BlackIce** » Sat Apr 26, 2014 7:02 am

Phil A Xiao wrote:
If DD can have a season where he is the undisputed best player on the team (like Vince was in his day...and I agree that DD doesn't have undisputed claim to that title today) and can lead the team to 55+ wins and a berth in the ECF, then I'd be willing to consider that DD may have passed Vince as best Raptor of all time.

How likely do you think this is though? I mean if Ross does the same thing then he'll pass Vince as well. Same with Jonas. This boils down to the likelihood rather then the possibility for me. I'm not being confrontational, I'm genuinely curious as I could be overrating Vince or underrating DeMar.

Sherlock · Post #44 » by **Sherlock** » Sat Apr 26, 2014 7:07 am

Death Knight wrote:
Phil A Xiao wrote:
Death Knight wrote:
Listen son. When Vince Carter was still a Raptor, he was in the conversation for best player in the league. He may not be, but he got as far as being in the conversation. DeMar?

Yes, you're correct. I remember that at his peak, people were discussions at the time on how getting Kobe back in return for Vince in a trade would be unfair to the Raptors.

That said, the Raptors as a team with Vince never made it past the second round. If Demar is able to lead the raps to 55+ wins and a trip to the ECF, then that would make him the leader of the most successful teams the Raps have ever had. That's worth more than individual success alone.

The Eastern Conference back then wasn't as pathetic as it is now. At the very least, it didn't have 37 win teams making the playoffs back to back seasons in a row. Quality teams top to bottom back then.

The east was terribly weak back then too. For all the hating you do on Demar, the team that represented the Eastern Conference in the finals that year was led by a 6-foot tall, inefficient, iso-loving, hero-baller. That Philly team outside of Iverson was awful (washed up Mutumbo and guys like Aaron McKie?). The other EC finalist was Milwaukee with their version of the "big-3", which consisted of Glen Big Dog Robinson, Sam Cassell and Ray Allen. I can't even remember the rosters of the rest of the EC teams that year, but none were particularly notable.

Meanwhile in the West, you had the Shaq/Kobe Lakers, the Webber-era Kings, the stacked Blazers team, etc.

If anything the East is harder now with Miami in it than it was back then. Back then there were just a lot of mediocre teams and no elite teams. Right now you have one elite team in the East (and if Indiana can ever get their collective heads out of their asses, maybe two).

DemarEvolution · Post #45 » by **DemarEvolution** » Sat Apr 26, 2014 7:08 am

UnderdogRaptors wrote:
DemarEvolution wrote:
UnderdogRaptors wrote:Lead the team to a franchise record + division crown I think he's the goat raptor

clearly you don't watch much basketball...the eastern conference was ridiculously weak.

Don't matter he did it, no need to nitpick it's not his fault the other teams are ass

You're right, he did do it. But, let me ask you this. Suppose you have player A who got the same achievements, but was able to do it against very strong competition. Also, suppose you have player B who got the same achievements, but was able to do it against much weaker competition. Who would you prefer?

UnderdogRaptors · Post #46 » by **UnderdogRaptors** » Sat Apr 26, 2014 7:10 am

DemarEvolution wrote:
UnderdogRaptors wrote:
DemarEvolution wrote:
clearly you don't watch much basketball...the eastern conference was ridiculously weak.

Don't matter he did it, no need to nitpick it's not his fault the other teams are ass

You're right, he did do it. But, let me ask you this. Suppose you have player A who got the same achievements, but was able to do it against very strong competition. Also, suppose you have player B who got the same achievements, but was able to do it against much weaker competition. Who would you prefer?

Competition in the early 2000s were garbage

DemarEvolution · Post #47 » by **DemarEvolution** » Sat Apr 26, 2014 7:15 am

UnderdogRaptors wrote:
DemarEvolution wrote:
UnderdogRaptors wrote:Don't matter he did it, no need to nitpick it's not his fault the other teams are ass

You're right, he did do it. But, let me ask you this. Suppose you have player A who got the same achievements, but was able to do it against very strong competition. Also, suppose you have player B who got the same achievements, but was able to do it against much weaker competition. Who would you prefer?

Competition in the early 2000s were garbage

Relative to now? I don't think so. But, answer the question.

UnderdogRaptors · Post #48 » by **UnderdogRaptors** » Sat Apr 26, 2014 7:17 am

DemarEvolution wrote:
UnderdogRaptors wrote:
DemarEvolution wrote:
You're right, he did do it. But, let me ask you this. Suppose you have player A who got the same achievements, but was able to do it against very strong competition. Also, suppose you have player B who got the same achievements, but was able to do it against much weaker competition. Who would you prefer?

Competition in the early 2000s were garbage

Relative to now? I don't think so. But, answer the question.

Yea it is as bad as it is now Imo, a crappy sixers team with Iverson made the finals with no other stars on the team

DemarEvolution · Post #49 » by **DemarEvolution** » Sat Apr 26, 2014 7:20 am

UnderdogRaptors wrote:
DemarEvolution wrote:
UnderdogRaptors wrote:Competition in the early 2000s were garbage

Relative to now? I don't think so. But, answer the question.

Yea it is as bad as it is now Imo, a crappy sixers team with Iverson made the finals with no other stars on the team

That was just a testament to how great A.I. was.

http://slumz.boxden.com/f16/1999-2000-n ... rs-691695/

You cannot be serious if you think those teams are not better on average than the teams this season

UnderdogRaptors · Post #50 » by **UnderdogRaptors** » Sat Apr 26, 2014 7:27 am

DemarEvolution wrote:
UnderdogRaptors wrote:
DemarEvolution wrote:
Relative to now? I don't think so. But, answer the question.

Yea it is as bad as it is now Imo, a crappy sixers team with Iverson made the finals with no other stars on the team

That was just a testament to how great A.I. was.

http://slumz.boxden.com/f16/1999-2000-n ... rs-691695/

You cannot be serious if you think those teams are not better on average than the teams this season

The east was only bad this year cuz of injuries to star players and knicks underachieving

Sherlock · Post #51 » by **Sherlock** » Sat Apr 26, 2014 7:31 am

BlackIce wrote:
Phil A Xiao wrote:
If DD can have a season where he is the undisputed best player on the team (like Vince was in his day...and I agree that DD doesn't have undisputed claim to that title today) and can lead the team to 55+ wins and a berth in the ECF, then I'd be willing to consider that DD may have passed Vince as best Raptor of all time.

How likely do you think this is though? I mean if Ross does the same thing then he'll pass Vince as well. Same with Jonas. This boils down to the likelihood rather then the possibility for me. I'm not being confrontational, I'm genuinely curious as I could be overrating Vince or underrating DeMar.

I honestly don't know. Probably unlikely.

That said, I'll say that DeRozan has become a better player this season than I previously thought he was capable of being, and he's done more to try to carry this team in the playoffs than I thought he was capable of doing on his own as little as one week ago. The kid has an undeniably strong work ethic -- he's definitely a much harder worker than Vince ever was, so even though he may not be as inherently talented, he may end up becoming a better player.

BlackIce · Post #52 » by **BlackIce** » Sat Apr 26, 2014 7:38 am

Phil A Xiao wrote:I honestly don't know. Probably unlikely.

That said, I'll say that DeRozan has become a better player this season than I previously thought he was capable of being, and he's done more to try to carry this team in the playoffs than I thought he was capable of doing on his own as little as one week ago. The kid has an undeniably strong work ethic -- he's definitely a much harder worker than Vince ever was, so even though he may not be as inherently talented, he may end up becoming a better player.

Fair enough, although I think it's unlikely I hope he proves me wrong.

Cheers

Sherlock · Post #53 » by **Sherlock** » Sat Apr 26, 2014 7:41 am

BlackIce wrote:
Phil A Xiao wrote:I honestly don't know. Probably unlikely.

That said, I'll say that DeRozan has become a better player this season than I previously thought he was capable of being, and he's done more to try to carry this team in the playoffs than I thought he was capable of doing on his own as little as one week ago. The kid has an undeniably strong work ethic -- he's definitely a much harder worker than Vince ever was, so even though he may not be as inherently talented, he may end up becoming a better player.

Fair enough, although I think it's unlikely I hope he proves me wrong.

Cheers

Yup...my thoughts exactly.

DemarEvolution · Post #54 » by **DemarEvolution** » Sat Apr 26, 2014 7:50 am

UnderdogRaptors wrote:
DemarEvolution wrote:
UnderdogRaptors wrote:Yea it is as bad as it is now Imo, a crappy sixers team with Iverson made the finals with no other stars on the team

That was just a testament to how great A.I. was.

http://slumz.boxden.com/f16/1999-2000-n ... rs-691695/

You cannot be serious if you think those teams are not better on average than the teams this season

The east was only bad this year cuz of injuries to star players and knicks underachieving

Now you are just coming up with excuses. Point is, the east was bad this year - injuries or not. And the knicks didn't underachieve, they are just bad - that team consists of the worst combination of players.

UnderdogRaptors · Post #55 » by **UnderdogRaptors** » Sat Apr 26, 2014 7:52 am

DemarEvolution wrote:
UnderdogRaptors wrote:
DemarEvolution wrote:
That was just a testament to how great A.I. was.

http://slumz.boxden.com/f16/1999-2000-n ... rs-691695/

You cannot be serious if you think those teams are not better on average than the teams this season

The east was only bad this year cuz of injuries to star players and knicks underachieving

Now you are just coming up with excuses. Point is, the east was bad this year - injuries or not. And the knicks didn't underachieve, they are just bad - that team consists of the worst combination of players.

Rose and Horford out for the most part this year :banghead:

andyo · Post #56 » by **andyo** » Sat Apr 26, 2014 7:55 am

I get behind Derozan when he does well but I'm not too fond of his game sometimes.

Two things that would make him a way more efficient player is if he could add any semblance of a 3 pointer to his game and played better defense. His defense really exposes him and takes away a lot of the positives he does offensively.

As for being the best raptor, I'm not sure he can ever become that. He'd have to elevate his game a few tiers and it'd be unfair to pick at straws about every flaw he might have.

Indeed · Post #57 » by **Indeed** » Sat Apr 26, 2014 9:56 am

He has trouble going against elite defenders.
More than often, he is choosing his opponent to score against. He asked Vasquez to set a screen, so he can go one on one against Deron Williams. Because of that, his scoring chances are very inconsistent, and he will have a hard time at clutch for creating opportunities.

As for shooting, he is not a sharp shooter type, where he cannot pull up with a quick release, thus, he needs to get time to prepare for a shot, particularly for a 3 point shot.

mirrornick · Post #58 » by **mirrornick** » Sat Apr 26, 2014 11:14 am

Never because you people will continue to pick him apart

J-Roc · Post #59 » by **J-Roc** » Sat Apr 26, 2014 11:14 am

As others have said winning this series matches VC.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

Waylanderz · Post #60 » by **Waylanderz** » Sat Apr 26, 2014 11:30 am

Vince put Toronto on the map. Anything short of getting to and being competitive in the the ECF will not do it.