2014 NBA Playoffs: Toronto Raptors (3) vs Brooklyn Nets (6)

[therealbig3]

Raps beat themselves, refs definitely helped thwart every surge they made down the stretch though. Not going to say the refs did this intentionally, but their play calling and consistency was piss poor. That tech was the punctuation mark on the worst call made of the series with Livingston giving Lowry all he had with his off arm.

Anyway, enough said there. Game 4 should be a good one.

Seriously, The raps fans, media, coaching and pl;ayers need to pipe down about the refs.... and please are you really gonna sit there and tell us the refs helded thwart every surge you made??? really?

that last few minutes you got touch call and 1's on lowry and derozan(they were fouls, but easily something no one would complaing about being play ons). Then you got 2 free throws on a loose ball foul on kevin garnett on a derozan missed FT. something that also is usually let go. Then you got another foul call off a missed FT, 94 feet from your hooop, where blatche certainly didnt foul anyone, might of got fouled himself, and even then you guys had the rebound and 99 times out fo 100 thats a play on.

im not saying those werent fouls, but they are calls that often arent called, and you got them.

You got 32 fouls called against us and 37 free throws ON THE ROAD with plenty of 50/50 calls and calls usually let go as play ons.

It is pretty embarassing. in the post game all casey did was cry about the refs, then derozan followed suit. really sad, you can tell its a predetrmined excuse no just for the fans but the coaches and players.

Either way, not many teams are going into another teams building in the playoffs and getting the calls the raps got last night.

Guy, look at the call Deron Williams got leading to a subsequent tech AND the Livingston call. I don't care that you're a Nets homer but do you really think those were good calls? Forget the course of the game, I am talking about those two sequences specifically. They had a huge impact on the final stretch of the game. Do you think referencing foul calls on the road mean a damn thing in regards to those two calls? For Vasquez to be t'd up immediately like that he must have told the ref he was going to kill his family. We don't know what was said aside from Vasquez saying he didn't say anything aside from telling the ref that he was entitled to that space, without cursing. Whether true or not, that was a pretty strange time to call a technical foul.

I could care less about the other calls, they were at the refs' discretion. That is fine, but those calls that Williams and Livingston got were brutal. If you can't see that, then there is nothing worth discussing.

I felt that the Raps got the benefit of a lot of brutal calls too down the stretch, which allowed them to make their comeback in the first place.

BTW, Vasquez punched the air and screamed at the ref...that's pretty much a textbook technical foul. Regardless of whether or not it was a bad foul call, there's no excuse for giving the ref a reason to T you up. He should have restrained himself much better. On the very next play, Livingston gets poorly called for the exact same foul, and he didn't react that way.

[ATLTimekeeper]

I felt that the Raps got the benefit of a lot of brutal calls too down the stretch, which allowed them to make their comeback in the first place.

BTW, Vasquez punched the air and screamed at the ref...that's pretty much a textbook technical foul. Regardless of whether or not it was a bad call, there's no excuse for giving the ref a reason to T you up. He should have restrained himself much better. On the very next play, Livingston gets poorly called for the exact same foul, and he didn't react that way.

It's textbook in most circumstances, but not in the final minute of a close playoff game. It was just a bad judgement on the ref's part, but we still had the game in our hands with Patterson at the line, so that's just how it goes sometimes. I'm not really sweating that T that much, it was just an extraordinary call.

[Prokorov]

Guy, look at the call Deron Williams got leading to a subsequent tech AND the Livingston call. I don't care that you're a Nets homer but do you really think those were good calls? Forget the course of the game, I am talking about those two sequences specifically.

The call on deron williams... oh you mean the same one lowry was getting on all night? yea i saw that? and hey yeah, lets just dismiss the other 62 whistled fouls and 47 minutes of play, cause hey, those were the only 50/50 calls of the night

huge homer? me? the guy who picked against the nets in this series and had us finishng under .500 on the year? lol yeah im a HUGE homer

They had a huge impact on the final stretch of the game. Do you think referencing foul calls on the road mean a damn thing in regards to those two calls? For Vasquez to be t'd up immediately like that he must have told the ref he was going to kill his family. We don't know what was said aside from Vasquez saying he didn't say anything aside from telling the ref that he was entitled to that space, without cursing. Whether true or not, that was a pretty strange time to call a technical foul.

You know how you avoid getting a technical foul? keep your mouth shut and dont cry about everything! what a concept! those 2 calls were fine... they were 50/50 calls no one would complaing about either way call or no call. the raps got TONS of 50/50 calls. you guys are just going to cry about the officials no matter what... which is obvious since you cried about the officials and had biased officiating threads on your board BEFORE the series even started

I could care less about the other calls, they were at the refs' discretion. That is fine, but those calls that Williams and Livingston got were brutal. If you can't see that, then there is nothing worth discussing.

50/50 calls. there were plenty of them the other way as well. how about the "foul" on blatche that sent patterson to the FT line with a chance to tie the game? the one where he made contact with no one and if anything may have had an argument he was fouled? how about the offensive foul on livingston that sent him to the bench in foul trouble? what about the two and 1 calls that sent lowry and derozan to the FT line to cut the lead to 7 and 2 respectively? both very suspect 50/50 calls.

just like your city, media, players, and (many) fellow fans, you had it set in your mind you were going to cry about it before it had even played itself out.

give a rest man... your team has gotten more respect and 50/50 foul calls then any time this postseason not named miami

[Prokorov]

Lowry did reach, Livingston also was allowed to use his off arm to push Lowry away. They permitted contact on both ends of that one. Livingston still got the foul call.

So... you see guys getting T'd up in the last minute of close playoff games all the time? Do you have any specific examples? That's what I'm looking for, not a watery answer.

Enjoy the win.

livingston got the foul call because he was hacked on his drive to the basket, not for pushing off at midcourt. lowry was mugging him. like legit mugging.

as far as the technical, sorry if i dont have the exact date and matchup, eitherway hard to argue with a technical when your players cries and bitches to the ref. STFU and play ball and that doesnt happen.

but i guess in the raptors universe there is no such thing as not crying about fouls

[Nils_the_Clean]

Alright, even I'm getting tired of the referee witch-hunt. Raps lost because they played horrible D and stopped playing to their strengths. There were bad calls down the stretch, some which made me scream and throw things, but as I said, the team NEEDS to put themselves in a SOLID position to win the game long before the closing buzzer. They lost the game on the defensive end. They gave themselves a great chance to win and could have even TIED it had Patterson not missed TWO CRITICAL foul shots.

What else can you look to, really, as the cause of the L? Raps didn't play well and they didn't hit the shots they needed to make. The Nets hit almost every shot they needed to and played great D.

The Raps rallied as hard as they could at the end and blew it in the most disappointing way possible : missed foul shots.

That just sucks.

Sigh... It all comes down to Sunday.

[Prokorov]

It's textbook in most circumstances, but not in the final minute of a close playoff game. It was just a bad judgement on the ref's part, but we still had the game in our hands with Patterson at the line, so that's just how it goes sometimes. I'm not really sweating that T that much, it was just an extraordinary call.

as everyone said on several plays all game "dont give the refs an excuse to blow the whistle"

you throw your first and yell at the refs, at any time and your are in danger of a technical. dont blame the referee because vasquez lost his compsure.

like i said, i blame that technical more on casey anyway. when you put it in your players heads that the refs are screwing them before the game even starts then you are going to see reactions like that. the raptors need to worry less about the officials and more about playing basketball.

im sure you can point out a few 50/50 calls that didnt go your way and a couple bad callsin general. but they have gone both ways, the raps have outshot the nets from the FT line, nets players have been in foul trouble all series, raps where in the bonus 3 of 4 quarters, and the raps have got the better end of the 50/50 calls.

it would be one thing if the nets were outshooting the raps but like 20 FTs to this point, and nets guys were never in foul trouble with raps fouling out left and right, but that has hardly been the case. hell KG fouled out in like 20 minutes of play, got called on 2 illegal screens and one foul on a FT attempt. And thats the guy your team has complained about getting away with everything.

Raps are never gonna earned respect from the media, the league, or the players by just crying about everything

[Prokorov]

That foul call on vasquez then the tech was a joke. Killed the momentum

that and 1 from derozan wasn't a foul either

.

1 free throw for derozan not deserved. 3 free throws for the Nets not deserved.

At the end of the day, we got outplayed for the majority of the game. Tonight's refs were terrible, both ways. Just feels like we got the short end of the stick

how about the 2 FTs for patterson not deserved, when blatche was called for a foul on the FT line?

you guys got the majority of the 50/50 calls, if anything you should be thanking the officials

[ATLTimekeeper]

as far as the technical, sorry if i dont have the exact date and matchup, eitherway hard to argue with a technical when your players cries and bitches to the ref. STFU and play ball and that doesnt happen.

but i guess in the raptors universe there is no such thing as not crying about fouls

Yeah, you don't have an answer. Exactly. No need to apologize.

[Prokorov]

as far as the technical, sorry if i dont have the exact date and matchup, eitherway hard to argue with a technical when your players cries and bitches to the ref. STFU and play ball and that doesnt happen.

but i guess in the raptors universe there is no such thing as not crying about fouls

Yeah, you don't have an answer. Exactly. No need to apologize.

only guy who needs to apologize is Vasquez. maybe if he doesnt punch the air in the refs direction and yell at him the Ref doesnt have to make a decision to give him a technical or not.

it's tough to find a play like that, you know... because most players arent idiot cry babies in a close situation late like that. id assume the rasheed wallaces of the world have had it happen to them or other boneheads

[ATLTimekeeper]

hell KG fouled out in like 20 minutes of play, got called on 2 illegal screens and one foul on a FT attempt. And thats the guy your team has complained about getting away with everything.

Raps are never gonna earned respect from the media, the league, or the players by just crying about everything

Seems like a good reason to keep complaining.

[Prokorov]

hell KG fouled out in like 20 minutes of play, got called on 2 illegal screens and one foul on a FT attempt. And thats the guy your team has complained about getting away with everything.

Raps are never gonna earned respect from the media, the league, or the players by just crying about everything

Seems like a good reason to keep complaining.

if you want to continue to be irrelevant and laughed at by the rest of the sports world, sure.

[Prokorov]

To move on to the actual game, I was suprised how much Iso offense the raptors went to. I know derozan had 30 points on 21 shots, which is solid efficency, but he also shot 36% from the field with 14 misses. And I still dont understand why the raptors dont go to the 1-5 pick and roll more. williams struggles with it and all our bigs outside KG struggle with it. and Val gets some easy looks as well as your team getting good offensive rebounding position. i just think its tough to get consistent offense shooting alot of long 2's.

On the nets side, we still arent running through joe enough. its either a paint look or a double team where we can get open 3s, and now that we are home, we should be glad to take those shots. Also, being at home we get mroe from blatche, im hoping he takes plumlee's minutes, as he can give us scoring in the paint and get to the FT line. when he isnt taking step back 20 footers he is actually an excellent offensive player. i also think he is uneffected by the spotlight

for plumlee, i think he is shook being a rookie in the playoffs. this is as bad as he has looked all year. and he is super hesitant to go up with the ball when he is usually super aggressive looking to put guys on posters.

Really hoping pierce, thornton, and mirza start getting hot from 3. thats been a big part of our success but hard to rely on in a 7 game series as they run hot and cold. hopefull at home sunday those start falling. our offense is so much better when we are hitting 3s, cause teams cant double

[ATLTimekeeper]

hell KG fouled out in like 20 minutes of play, got called on 2 illegal screens and one foul on a FT attempt. And thats the guy your team has complained about getting away with everything.

Raps are never gonna earned respect from the media, the league, or the players by just crying about everything

Seems like a good reason to keep complaining.

if you want to continue to be irrelevant and laughed at by the rest of the sports world, sure.

Who cares as long as we get the respect from the officials. We keep showing up to games, hundreds of people watched in the rain last night... the mockery doesn't mean anything. We do a better job mocking ourselves, frankly. That's part of the fun.

[Trader_Joe]

That 4th quarter made me wish I had a Xanax prescription.
Nets just don't like doing things the easy way.

Overall, I'm not going to add much here on the refs. I think the refs are doing an ok job this series overall. Several questionable calls on both sides but overall the fouls and FTs have been pretty even over the series. Either way, even with this "bias" against the Raps, they still won 48 games were the 3 seed and are "used" to it, so I'm not sure why anything changes now. Wouldn't this have been factored into their expectations going in by both the team and the fans? IMO, it's very easy.. if the Raps dominate the boards and put the ball in the basket, they will win, regardless. Also..Derozen has 37 FTA in 3 games. the most in the playoffs by 4 FTA. The Raptors as a team are taking 30.3 FTA per game.. the Nets 30.7.. inflated by the intentional fouls at the end of games 1 (6 in the final minute) and game 3 (10 in the final minute). If not for those, Toronto has had a sizable advantage at the line.

Speaking of Derozen, just wanted to say anyone that thought Derozen was overpaid is clearly off on that one. He has been great after a terrible game 1. He hasn't had the best shooting percentages but the defense has been cranked up and he's still getting to the line at will. Lowry, is the one I most scared about going in, but D.Will has matched up with him well.

Patterson and Vaquez are doing themselves major favors with free agency approaching. Both have potentially doubled their pay checks with the way they are playing.

For the Nets.. they still aren't hitting their 3s, but I'm glad they went away from that shot some in game 3. (24/24/20 attempts) They are 26% for the playoffs which is the second worst in the PO. They were 37% and #11 in the RS. Some of that is Toronto's D, which has been good, but overall they simply aren't hitting their 3s as many of their looks have been good.

I'm still waiting for their bench to wake up. They've played better the last 2 games, but overall Mirza has been terrible, Plumlee has been a non factor with foul trouble, Thornton has been pretty bad and Blatche his inconsistent self. They need to play more AK and less Mirza IMO.

The Brooklyn back court is finally playing well together. JJ's been an absolute stud and Deron is controlling the games very well.

[Prokorov]

Seems like a good reason to keep complaining.

if you want to continue to be irrelevant and laughed at by the rest of the sports world, sure.

Who cares as long as we get the respect from the officials. We keep showing up to games, hundreds of people watched in the rain last night... the mockery doesn't mean anything. We do a better job mocking ourselves, frankly. That's part of the fun.

you are getting respect from the officials.

1) "veteran calls". your fans were complaining before the series started our old vets get away with everything. meanwhile pierce has been in foul trouble twice and KG fouled out in 20 minutes last night, has been called for 5 illegal screens in the series, called for a foul on a FT attempt, and got a technical foul called on him

2) "FT disparity" you guys shot 1 less FT then us for the series (92 to 91) and really you shot more since a large number of those FT for the nets were the raptors intentionally fouling (14 of those attempts). You were -2 in game 1, +1 in game 2, and even last night in our building. Derozan has shot 37 free throws in this series. More then any other player in the playoffs to this point, including lebron james and kevin durant.

3) "50/50 calls" you have gotten just as many if not more then the nets have. You are quick to point out the ones that didnt go the raptors way, but ignore the ones that have. Phantom call on blatche at the FT line that sent patterson to the line with a chance to tie it. offesnive foul on livingston on the lowry flop with hardly any contact. the "and 1's" on lowry and derozan late, where there was little contact. the 5th foul on KG late and the deron's 3rd foul in the 2nd that sent him to the bench just when he got going. yea, you'v been on the wrong side of alot of 50/50 calls, you have also been on alot of them on the right side. there 50/50 calls, they even out, you dont get them all... thats why they are 50/50 calls.

4) "Foul Trouble" Nets have had just as much if not more of it then the raptors.

Game 3: Livingston and Dwill had to sit cause of 3 and 4 early fouls in the 2nd and 3rd quarters. KG was in foul trouble had to sit and fouled out. For the raptors, Val was in early foul trouble. Lowry fouled out, but had just 3 fouls heading into the final 6 minutes.

Game 2: Pierce and Livingston were in foul trouble early and didnt play much as a result. Derozan picked up his 4th toward the end of the third... a bit of foul trouble but not much.

Game 1: Early foul trouble for livingston, he had to sit in the first quarter. plumlee barely played due to foul trouble. Ross like livingston had to sit in the first quarter with early foul trouble. no players for either team outside of that had to sit due to foul trouble.

5) "Flops" Hard to really come to any conclusion other then lowry has gotten the benefit of the whistles on flops/embelsihments more then any other player in this series.


Honestly, this series has been called as even as it gets, and moreso then probably any other series ive watched. The raptors have no business blaming the officials to the extent that they have. and not just the fans, the coaches and media as well. If you take an unbiased look at this series, it is difficult to say the raps havent gotten a fair shake, and even an advantage at times.

You can harp on a few calls, like the Grevis Technical and say thats rarely called. but how often do you see a refree call a phantom foul on a FT rebound, where the raps already had possesion, 94 feet from the hoop, sending the team to the FT line with 19 second left and a chance to tie... that foul call on blatche was much more egregious in my opinion, because it simply wasnt a foul...

with vasquez, you can say "well you cant make that call there" but in the end it was still deserving of a technical as he punched his fist and screamed at the offical. with blatche, there was simply no foul

[Rich Rane]

That 4th quarter made me wish I had a Xanax prescription.
Nets just don't like doing things the easy way.

Overall, I'm not going to add much here on the refs. I think the refs are doing an ok job this series overall. Several questionable calls on both sides but overall the fouls and FTs have been pretty even over the series. Either way, even with this "bias" against the Raps, they still won 48 games were the 3 seed and are "used" to it, so I'm not sure why anything changes now. Wouldn't this have been factored into their expectations going in by both the team and the fans? IMO, it's very easy.. if the Raps dominate the boards and put the ball in the basket, they will win, regardless. Also..Derozen has 37 FTA in 3 games. the most in the playoffs by 4 FTA. The Raptors as a team are taking 30.3 FTA per game.. the Nets 30.7.. inflated by the intentional fouls at the end of games 1 (6 in the final minute) and game 3 (10 in the final minute). If not for those, Toronto has had a sizable advantage at the line.

Speaking of Derozen, just wanted to say anyone that thought Derozen was overpaid is clearly off on that one. He has been great after a terrible game 1. He hasn't had the best shooting percentages but the defense has been cranked up and he's still getting to the line at will. Lowry, is the one I most scared about going in, but D.Will has matched up with him well.

Patterson and Vaquez are doing themselves major favors with free agency approaching. Both have potentially doubled their pay checks with the way they are playing.

For the Nets.. they still aren't hitting their 3s, but I'm glad they went away from that shot some in game 3. (24/24/20 attempts) They are 26% for the playoffs which is the second worst in the PO. They were 37% and #11 in the RS. Some of that is Toronto's D, which has been good, but overall they simply aren't hitting their 3s as many of their looks have been good.

I'm still waiting for their bench to wake up. They've played better the last 2 games, but overall Mirza has been terrible, Plumlee has been a non factor with foul trouble, Thornton has been pretty bad and Blatche his inconsistent self. They need to play more AK and less Mirza IMO.

The Brooklyn back court is finally playing well together. JJ's been an absolute stud and Deron is controlling the games very well.

Nets are also still giving them huge fits and winning the turnover battle, last night 19-12. You're right that they didn't go too crazy with their 3s (although there were still facepalm attempts from Pierce, Thornton, and Teletovic) and the Nets didn't get destroyed on the boards this time.

After last night, hopefully Blatche recognizes not to take many shots at all and just pound the paint and finish well/draw fouls and converting at the line. That's a hell of a lot more than Plumlee has done this series. I'd rather see AK than either backup wing to be honest (Anderson or Thornton, who also needs to learn to drive more).

[Prokorov]

That 4th quarter made me wish I had a Xanax prescription.
Nets just don't like doing things the easy way.

Overall, I'm not going to add much here on the refs. I think the refs are doing an ok job this series overall. Several questionable calls on both sides but overall the fouls and FTs have been pretty even over the series. Either way, even with this "bias" against the Raps, they still won 48 games were the 3 seed and are "used" to it, so I'm not sure why anything changes now. Wouldn't this have been factored into their expectations going in by both the team and the fans? IMO, it's very easy.. if the Raps dominate the boards and put the ball in the basket, they will win, regardless. Also..Derozen has 37 FTA in 3 games. the most in the playoffs by 4 FTA. The Raptors as a team are taking 30.3 FTA per game.. the Nets 30.7.. inflated by the intentional fouls at the end of games 1 (6 in the final minute) and game 3 (10 in the final minute). If not for those, Toronto has had a sizable advantage at the line.

Speaking of Derozen, just wanted to say anyone that thought Derozen was overpaid is clearly off on that one. He has been great after a terrible game 1. He hasn't had the best shooting percentages but the defense has been cranked up and he's still getting to the line at will. Lowry, is the one I most scared about going in, but D.Will has matched up with him well.

Patterson and Vaquez are doing themselves major favors with free agency approaching. Both have potentially doubled their pay checks with the way they are playing.

For the Nets.. they still aren't hitting their 3s, but I'm glad they went away from that shot some in game 3. (24/24/20 attempts) They are 26% for the playoffs which is the second worst in the PO. They were 37% and #11 in the RS. Some of that is Toronto's D, which has been good, but overall they simply aren't hitting their 3s as many of their looks have been good.

I'm still waiting for their bench to wake up. They've played better the last 2 games, but overall Mirza has been terrible, Plumlee has been a non factor with foul trouble, Thornton has been pretty bad and Blatche his inconsistent self. They need to play more AK and less Mirza IMO.

The Brooklyn back court is finally playing well together. JJ's been an absolute stud and Deron is controlling the games very well.

this is well put and i pretty much agree with all of this.... ESPECIALLY the nets not settling for 3's. We had 40+ points in the paint in our wins, and like 25 or so in our loss. we need to get more buckets in the paint and not rely so much on the 3. obviously take the wide open 3s, but dont settle for them early.

Agree with Rich Rane on Pierce/Thornton/Mirza.... eventually one of these guys needs to get hot, right? i see a thornton 6 three 20 point effort at some point

[MacGill]

*Sigh*, look refs aside Raps had opportunities to win all 3 games and if you cannot admit this then you're just looking through Raptor's bias glasses.

The ref'ing has surely made some 'OMG' calls but the margin of victory here is very minimal so let's not act like we haven't had chances to capitalize. Hell, even when we're getting the calls, we're not taking advantage of them at the line, like we should be, and we're turning the ball over uncharacteristically. Not spacing like we can due to our 3 pointer not going down like it does and all of this is because most of our team are playoff virgins.

Thorton hitting 2 airballed 3's, the 50/50 balls we haven't gotten, missing lay-ups....all of this matters as much as some crap calls. We've been in every game, so we need to own our accountability and not try to completely pass the buck when we're missing wide open shots which should be much easier to make then hitting a free throw from the line.

Patience Raptor fans...patience. Let our team learn from this. This series is far from over.

[Xepa777]

Watching this flame match going on...

[Kobblehead]

The thing killing the Raptors is that they only have 6 guys playing at an acceptable enough level in this series to even be on the court. Brooklyn is just a deeper team.