2014 NBA Playoffs: Toronto Raptors (3) vs Brooklyn Nets (6)

[ATLTimekeeper]

The thing killing the Raptors is that they only have 6 guys playing at an acceptable enough level in this series to even be on the court. Brooklyn is just a deeper team.

I don't think it's that pronounced, though. Plumlee hasn't done anything. Thornton has been awful. AK47 hasn't really done much either. Livingston is always in foul trouble. The Nets are theoretically deep. They're up 2-1 because their best two players have been better than the Raptors best two players.

[Lord_Zedd]

To move on to the actual game, I was suprised how much Iso offense the raptors went to. I know derozan had 30 points on 21 shots, which is solid efficency, but he also shot 36% from the field with 14 misses. And I still dont understand why the raptors dont go to the 1-5 pick and roll more. williams struggles with it and all our bigs outside KG struggle with it. and Val gets some easy looks as well as your team getting good offensive rebounding position. i just think its tough to get consistent offense shooting alot of long 2's.

I don't think ISO offense is intended. It was moreso of the Nets perimeter D and denying our typical passing lanes. I've said since the beginning of the series that we should be attacking the Nets inside with our bigs. There was absolutely no way we can continue our perimeter passing, and jump shooting offense in the playoffs against a team that shored up their biggest weakness in the regular season.

That's the experience factor for the Nets. Raptors haven't adapted at all while the Nets have. When the Raptors started to adapt, it already cost them a game

[Trader_Joe]

The thing killing the Raptors is that they only have 6 guys playing at an acceptable enough level in this series to even be on the court. Brooklyn is just a deeper team.

I don't think it's that pronounced, though. Plumlee hasn't done anything. Thornton has been awful. AK47 hasn't really done much either. Livingston is always in foul trouble. The Nets are theoretically deep. They're up 2-1 because their best two players have been better than the Raptors best two players.

I said going in the Raps have a very good bench and one of the few that can match up with BK's bench. BK's bench has been a major disappointment but much of it is that Toronto has been playing very good D. Our bench was a major factor in the RS, but this is the PO. Benches are less important.

BTW.. Livingston isn't a bench player.

This is..
Thornton - complete non factor, not making his shots and not really playing much as a result.

AA - playing fairly well with his D and not forcing shots. He's getting MT's minutes because of his familiarity with TO.

AK - did not play game 1, but IMO was a key last night with his D and energy. We need more AK. His intangibles are off the charts.

Mirza - a terrible series, but he stunk in the RS against TO as well. 33/25/50 are his percentages with 1.7 rpg. Less Mirza please.

Blatche - inconsistent as always but I've liked the way he's played the last two games. Will always be plagued by questionable calls though as refs seem to hate him.

Plumlee - a non factor mostly due to foul trouble and the fact he's a rookie in the playoffs. Still brings energy and a different dimension. He's not strong enough to defend JV in the post but he's too quick for most bigs to defend. I'm expecting a breakout game soon.

[Prokorov]

To move on to the actual game, I was suprised how much Iso offense the raptors went to. I know derozan had 30 points on 21 shots, which is solid efficency, but he also shot 36% from the field with 14 misses. And I still dont understand why the raptors dont go to the 1-5 pick and roll more. williams struggles with it and all our bigs outside KG struggle with it. and Val gets some easy looks as well as your team getting good offensive rebounding position. i just think its tough to get consistent offense shooting alot of long 2's.

I don't think ISO offense is intended. It was moreso of the Nets perimeter D and denying our typical passing lanes. I've said since the beginning of the series that we should be attacking the Nets inside with our bigs. There was absolutely no way we can continue our perimeter passing, and jump shooting offense in the playoffs against a team that shored up their biggest weakness in the regular season.

That's the experience factor for the Nets. Raptors haven't adapted at all while the Nets have. When the Raptors started to adapt, it already cost them a game

i dont know, i dont see your bigs as guys who can give us trouble in the post. thats not patterson or amir's game and val while great at secondary offense has been a turnover/brick machine when given post touches

i really think you guys should milk the pick and roll. it killed us all year, especially when KG isnt on the floor. Vasquez owns us on the pick roll.

[Trader_Joe]

To move on to the actual game, I was suprised how much Iso offense the raptors went to. I know derozan had 30 points on 21 shots, which is solid efficency, but he also shot 36% from the field with 14 misses. And I still dont understand why the raptors dont go to the 1-5 pick and roll more. williams struggles with it and all our bigs outside KG struggle with it. and Val gets some easy looks as well as your team getting good offensive rebounding position. i just think its tough to get consistent offense shooting alot of long 2's.

I don't think ISO offense is intended. It was moreso of the Nets perimeter D and denying our typical passing lanes. I've said since the beginning of the series that we should be attacking the Nets inside with our bigs. There was absolutely no way we can continue our perimeter passing, and jump shooting offense in the playoffs against a team that shored up their biggest weakness in the regular season.

That's the experience factor for the Nets. Raptors haven't adapted at all while the Nets have. When the Raptors started to adapt, it already cost them a game

i dont know, i dont see your bigs as guys who can give us trouble in the post. thats not patterson or amir's game and val while great at secondary offense has been a turnover/brick machine when given post touches

i really think you guys should milk the pick and roll. it killed us all year, especially when KG isnt on the floor. Vasquez owns us on the pick roll.

They don't got to Jonas nearly enough IMO.
He's
4-4
5-9
7-13
61% shooting so far.

[Prokorov]

I don't think ISO offense is intended. It was moreso of the Nets perimeter D and denying our typical passing lanes. I've said since the beginning of the series that we should be attacking the Nets inside with our bigs. There was absolutely no way we can continue our perimeter passing, and jump shooting offense in the playoffs against a team that shored up their biggest weakness in the regular season.

That's the experience factor for the Nets. Raptors haven't adapted at all while the Nets have. When the Raptors started to adapt, it already cost them a game

i dont know, i dont see your bigs as guys who can give us trouble in the post. thats not patterson or amir's game and val while great at secondary offense has been a turnover/brick machine when given post touches

i really think you guys should milk the pick and roll. it killed us all year, especially when KG isnt on the floor. Vasquez owns us on the pick roll.

They don't got to Jonas nearly enough IMO.
He's
4-4
5-9
7-13
61% shooting so far.

he also has 13 turnovers in 3 games on pretty low usage.

And alot of those points are on offensive rebounds and putbacks, not by going to him and having him score. I'll have to run through the game log but id assume he is under 50% on non-put back FGA.

edit: checked the play by play -- Game 3 he had 1 FGM on an offensive putback, Game 2 he had 2 FGA on offensive putbacks. Game 1 he had 4 putbacks off offenive rebounds, but he also had 2 misses off offensive rebounds so we need to subtract those misses to...

so 7-9 on offensive putbacks. makes him 9-24 on everything else (37.5%)

Obviously those points still count, and he has played well... but i think its relevant to bring up when discussing if they should go to him more or not

[Kobblehead]

The thing killing the Raptors is that they only have 6 guys playing at an acceptable enough level in this series to even be on the court. Brooklyn is just a deeper team.

I don't think it's that pronounced, though. Plumlee hasn't done anything. Thornton has been awful. AK47 hasn't really done much either. Livingston is always in foul trouble. The Nets are theoretically deep. They're up 2-1 because their best two players have been better than the Raptors best two players.

True, but in the Nets case, even the players that aren't playing well overall are providing contributions in certain ways (mainly defensively). The only guy that fits that bill on Toronto has been Fields.

Ross is giving them NOTHING.
Hansborough is giving them NOTHING.
Salmons is giving them NOTHING.

[ATLTimekeeper]

It was 35-35 when the refs tagged Jonas with his 3rd foul. The Nets had that big push right after. I think he's gaining confidence as the series goes on. No one can guard him. No one can keep him off the glass.

[Trader_Joe]

It was 35-35 when the refs tagged Jonas with his 3rd foul. The Nets had that big push right after. I think he's gaining confidence as the series goes on. No one can guard him. No one can keep him off the glass.

I think he looked best in game 1 and has been less aggressive since.
Granted his turnovers were bad in the first two games but that was to be expected.

[SpiderMunn]

[ATLTimekeeper]

It was 35-35 when the refs tagged Jonas with his 3rd foul. The Nets had that big push right after. I think he's gaining confidence as the series goes on. No one can guard him. No one can keep him off the glass.

I think he looked best in game 1 and has been less aggressive since.
Granted his turnovers were bad in the first two games but that was to be expected.

I'm referring to the kinds of shots he's been making, he's hitting some shots he doesn't usually take. In game one he was missing bunnies, too. I haven't seen a drop-off in his aggression, honestly, he's just been marked by the Nets better and yesterday he had foul trouble.

[-TheDocOfDenial]

HOW THE **** DO YOU MISS SOMETHING LIKE THIS WHEN THE SIDELINE JUDGE IS LOOKING STRAIGHT AT THEM

[Trader_Joe]

You guys realize there are plenty of examples of the Nets getting hosed on calls too?

I don't see how anyone can say there has been a pro BK bias.... and especially one that has impacted the series.

-They are even on fouls and FTA

- Derozen is #1 in FTA for the league in the PO

-The Nets would average about 5 fewer FTA per game if not for the end of game intentional fouls and be well behind the Raps by about 20%.

-The Raps and Nets were even in FTA in game 3 despite the Nets doing most their scoring in the paint and at home.

-Plumlee and Livingston have been plagued by fouls this series. KG and PP have had foul trouble that has kept them out of games.

-KG was called for a tech even though Lowry was the one continuing the play in game 1, he's also been called for numerous illegal screens

-Blatche was called for a tech for doing nothing in game 1

-Blatche was called for a foul on the rebound in game 3 when he did nothing to Patterson. Blatche always gets called for bad calls though.


Also... don't some fans claim this has happened all season?

And yet they were still able to win 48 games, get the 3 seed and take 2 of 4 from the Nets.
They also took the 7th most FTA per game in the regular season.

My point is, thinking this bias exists, wouldn't that have been factored into their fans expectations/predictions including all those that said the Raps would win in 4 or 5?

[Prokorov]

It was 35-35 when the refs tagged Jonas with his 3rd foul. The Nets had that big push right after. I think he's gaining confidence as the series goes on. No one can guard him. No one can keep him off the glass.

He is a -23 for the series. he hasnt had a positive +/- in any of the 3 games. i think you are overstating his impact. he has 13 turnovers on low usage, and is shooting under 50% on non-putbacks. his defense has been average.

i dont think JV is really some elite force that makes brooklyn struggle with when on the floor

[mellymel1234]

The thing killing the Raptors is that they only have 6 guys playing at an acceptable enough level in this series to even be on the court. Brooklyn is just a deeper team.

I don't think it's that pronounced, though. Plumlee hasn't done anything. Thornton has been awful. AK47 hasn't really done much either. Livingston is always in foul trouble. The Nets are theoretically deep. They're up 2-1 because their best two players have been better than the Raptors best two players.

True, but in the Nets case, even the players that aren't playing well overall are providing contributions in certain ways (mainly defensively). The only guy that fits that bill on Toronto has been Fields.

Ross is giving them NOTHING.
Hansborough is giving them NOTHING.
Salmons is giving them NOTHING.

Agreed on everything.

Ross has been the biggest disappointment so far for the Raptors no question.

Salmons shouldn't be getting any playing time, I don't see what he provides to this team. It also looks like he has a hard time keeping his eyes open.

Here's my rant on Hansbrough. Whenever he's on the court, he's always trying to help the Raptors guards with a double team, when it's not that necessary, and his real assignments end up getting open passes around the paint. So far he's done absolutely nothing on defence, absolutely nothing on offence, he's brutal from the free throw line, can't make open baskets under the rim, the guy just flat out sucks. Maybe he's pumping too much weight before the game I don't know what it is.

The Raptors must work on getting Demar and Jonas on the court as much as possible.

We still haven't seen Lowry take over a game yet and I'm expecting that, same with Ross.

This series looks primed for a game 7.

Sent from my XT1032 using RealGM Forums mobile app

[ATLTimekeeper]

Alright, enough ref talk. Back to trash talk for game 4. Sounds like the players are a little underwhelmed by the crowd:

"They could do better," Garnett said Saturday.

Added Pierce: "Well, we know gradually they got into it. Hopefully the next game, it will get a lot better from the start.

"I mean, I thought the crowd was pretty good," Joe Johnson said. "We just gotta go out and make them be excited, we gotta make plays on the court. That's it."

Wasn't feeling Omar's introduction pointing out how many seasons everyone's played. Might as well have listed all the anti-inflammatories they're on.

[Prokorov]

Alright, enough ref talk. Back to trash talk for game 4. Sounds like the players are a little underwhelmed by the crowd:

"They could do better," Garnett said Saturday.

Added Pierce: "Well, we know gradually they got into it. Hopefully the next game, it will get a lot better from the start.

"I mean, I thought the crowd was pretty good," Joe Johnson said. "We just gotta go out and make them be excited, we gotta make plays on the court. That's it."

Wasn't feeling Omar's introduction pointing out how many seasons everyone's played. Might as well have listed all the anti-inflammatories they're on.

im actually glad at the turnout, its still subpar for a playoff game, but 10 times better then what we saw when we were in the NBA finals in NJ.

its a process, brooklyn nets fans are gonna be the young kids who start rooting for the team now, not fans who are currently knick fans or somehthing

[ChampionRed]

I was at the game last night and the crowd was great! I will admit that they weren't as non-stop as the Toronto crowd but they were still great, in my opinion. But I agree with Garnett. The crowd can be a lot better and cheer even during the rough patches throughout the game. I'm gong to be there tomorrow as well so I'm going to be trying my best to get the crowd going!

[Prokorov]

I was at the game last night and the crowd was great! I will admit that they weren't as non-stop as the Toronto crowd but they were still great, in my opinion. But I agree with Garnett. The crowd can be a lot better and cheer even during the rough patches throughout the game. I'm gong to be there tomorrow as well so I'm going to be trying my best to get the crowd going!

tough for the nets crowd to be lively and committed when this team has played with the worst effort in the NBA the past 2 seasons and mailed in games especially on back to backs on the regualar/

you want a lively crowd? bring it 41 times a year

[ChampionRed]

I was at the game last night and the crowd was great! I will admit that they weren't as non-stop as the Toronto crowd but they were still great, in my opinion. But I agree with Garnett. The crowd can be a lot better and cheer even during the rough patches throughout the game. I'm gong to be there tomorrow as well so I'm going to be trying my best to get the crowd going!

tough for the nets crowd to be lively and committed when this team has played with the worst effort in the NBA the past 2 seasons and mailed in games especially on back to backs on the regualar/

you want a lively crowd? bring it 41 times a year

I get what you're saying but it doesn't make sense for the crowd not to live in the moment of the game. Why else are they there if they're not going to pull for their team? Plus, this year's team is NOT last year's team AND the Nets have rewarded this crowd with a lot of great home wins this season. So I don't see how what you're saying correlates to the crowd being more lively at the games.