bad boys: 30 for 30

[transplant]

One thing I think gets oversold on the Bad Boys ending. Detroit may have been tired in 91 but they certainly weren't old yet. Only Laimbeer to some degree. But their best players were still in their primes, they just got overtaken.

Dumars 27
Isiah 29
Aquirre 31
Rodman 29
Sally 26
Laimbeer 33

Considering MJ was winning titles till 34, those guys were all still in prime even ideal veteran winning ages, when we usurped them. They had certainly fallen off that year, but the utter defeat pretty much sealed any hope of them reconstituting, which would have otherwise looked possible.

Yup. It's not always about absolute ages. The Bulls were stronger, faster and better...and younger.

[TheStig]

Simmons thinks the '89 Pistons were better than the '83 Sixers and '01 Lakers? Stop it. Great team though, but not top 5 of all-time.

Eh all those ratings were off. How were the 72 win Bulls #3?

[gstephanopulos]

Wasn't alive back when it happened so I enjoyed this doc. As every 30 for 30.

Everyone that says that physical play should came back is complete moron. If you want to watch fights turn tv to channels that show that.

I mean that play when Pariash started throwing punches at Laimbeer was absoulutly criminal. And other stuff that bad boys did was also terible.

[OldSchoolNoBull]

Just caught a replay of this.

Really well done.

Same basic narrative we all know about those Pistons teams - about how they had to fight and fight and fight first to get past the Celtics and then to get past the Lakers and how they had a huge chip on their shoulders because they felt like nobody respected them or liked them or their style of play and how that 'us against the world' mindset made them an even tighter-knit team.

I'll say this, as easy as it is to dislike those Pistons teams, there is something effecting, almost touching, about how close those guys were; you don't really see that kind of closeness very often in sports. And also, obviously, no matter what you think of Isiah as a person, it can't be denied that he's one of the game's greatest players.

On the other hand, if people didn't like them, they kind of did it to themselves. The thuggish play, the lack of remorse, etc. And Isiah not making the Dream Team? He did it to himself by alienating so many of the other Dream Teamers to the point where they didn't want to play with him(yes, MJ was the main guy on that front, but most of the others weren't exactly lining up to vouch for Isiah).

That said, as much as you might dislike those guys, you could've taken any of them - except for maybe Laimbeer - on our team and learned to feel the other way about them. Case in point - I was a little kid during those Bulls/Pistons series, but I know the fanbase hated Dennis back then, but yet, he was embraced when he came here, he helped us win three titles, and now he's a Bull for life as far as we're concerned, I think.

About the walkout - there was an interesting contrast when they were talking about it, where even Isiah seemed to have some modicum of shame about it, in that he kind of said it didn't matter whose idea it was(as opposed to accepting responsibility), and, looking back should we have been bigger than that in defeat, yeah, while Laimbeer was just as defiant and stubborn about it as ever, and proudly accepted responsibility, wore it like a badge, for being the instigator.

I think Laimbeer really disliked that Bulls team, maybe more than any other Piston. Feeling was probably mutual.

[Michael Jackson]

Laimbeer was exactly what he was. He was Ty Cobb. He won them games the only way he could. Intimidation. I wish they showed the pistons talking about the three peat. I remember that after the bulls beat the lakers the three peat chant started which was absurd but awesome because it came true. They were such an awesome nemesis for the bulls. It was such great sports drama to be invested in.

The one thing I didn't know likely because of my age at the time, was that the Dantley for Acguire trade wasn't a positive thing. Maybe it just was because I thought Mark was a DePaul stud and that was actually a big pickup for them. It also worked out well for them.

The 72 win Bulls team not the GOAT? Maybe I am being a homer which I rarely am but seriously? That team was all prime sans Harper, who would have been if he had knees. Still even Ron was the perfect fit. Everyone was still gunning for them and they ate everyone up. Granted Seattle was likely the second worst team they won a title against, only because of experience (lakers the first because Father Time got them) they were own hell of a team that year. A lot better than the Knicks team that Houston beat.

Anyway, great 30 for 30. The pistons were just like the broad street bullies. Everyone hated them. As hated as they were they weren't denied two rings. More than can be said about the equally thuggish Knicks.

[dautjazz]

Watched it today, great documentary, but wow, never knew they were so damn dirty, and so proud of it. SO glad that Thomas didn't get selected on the Dream Team!