Bradley Beal - Part II

[tontoz]

One positive we have seen from Beal over the last two seasons is that he has no fear taking important shots late in games. He actually seems to make them at a higher rate than he does the rest of the game.

[dobrojim]

seems to but he probably doesn't

it's like everyone believed MJ never missed at the end of games

you are much more inclined to remember the amazing ones that
the routine failures.

not to slam BB or anything. Gotta like his 1st 2 games of the series.

[Illmatic21]

Beal was a finalist for the NBA Sportsmanship Award (nominated and voted on by the players). Mike Conley won it:

http://www.nba.com/2014/news/04/24/mike ... hip-award/

[Severn Hoos]

Just because it's fun to ask the question:

What does the board think about Beal vs. Harden right now? Just on gut feel, do you wish Harden was on this team, rather than Beal?

Through four playoff games, here are the stats:

Harden: 27.5 PPG, .350 FG%, .268 3p%, .871 FT%, 5.3 RPG, 5.5 APG, 1.3 SPG, 4.0 PF, 3.8 TO

Beal: 20.5 PPG, .435 FG%, .500 3p%, .905 FT%, 4.5 RPG, 4.3 APG, 0.8 SPG, 3.3 PF, 0.8 TO


Should we mention Beal's defense? Harden's contract? Their comparative age?

I know it's a ridiculously small sample size, but then Harden has been below .400 FG% in 3 of the 5 seasons he has been in the playoffs.

And if you prefer the Advanced stats, they get even uglier for Harden. He loses on PER (20.5 / 15.1), ORtg (128 / 103), DRtg (111 / 119), and WS/48 (.203 / .023). Oh, and despite being so inefficient (the usual knock on Beal), Harden's Usage rate is 30.5 compared to 21.7 for Beal.

Harden's a great player, but I'm not convinced I would trade Beal straight up for him right now. And 2nd year Beal is light years ahead of 2nd year Harden, IMO. I hope we get to see Beal in a Wiz uniform for a long time to come.

[montestewart]

Just because it's fun to ask the question:

What does the board think about Beal vs. Harden right now? Just on gut feel, do you wish Harden was on this team, rather than Beal?

Through four playoff games, here are the stats:

Harden: 27.5 PPG, .350 FG%, .268 3p%, .871 FT%, 5.3 RPG, 5.5 APG, 1.3 SPG, 4.0 PF, 3.8 TO

Beal: 20.5 PPG, .435 FG%, .500 3p%, .905 FT%, 4.5 RPG, 4.3 APG, 0.8 SPG, 3.3 PF, 0.8 TO


Should we mention Beal's defense? Harden's contract? Their comparative age?

I know it's a ridiculously small sample size, but then Harden has been below .400 FG% in 3 of the 5 seasons he has been in the playoffs.

And if you prefer the Advanced stats, they get even uglier for Harden. He loses on PER (20.5 / 15.1), ORtg (128 / 103), DRtg (111 / 119), and WS/48 (.203 / .023). Oh, and despite being so inefficient (the usual knock on Beal), Harden's Usage rate is 30.5 compared to 21.7 for Beal.

Harden's a great player, but I'm not convinced I would trade Beal straight up for him right now. And 2nd year Beal is light years ahead of 2nd year Harden, IMO. I hope we get to see Beal in a Wiz uniform for a long time to come.

I've been thinking about that. I looked at Harden as a lost opportunity. I still wonder exactly what went into that decision, not very trusting of Terd's public statements and not very impressed with Ernie's talent assessments. But man, if the Wizards had this Harden, this team would probably be a real mess. I say "this Harden" because he sure seems a much different player than he did on Oklahoma.

Harden still fills out a stat sheet, but when he became the man, he stopped being the pretty fantastic complementary player, his lame foul baiting exploded, and his bad D has turned up to 11 (kind of reminds me of Arenas who seemed to become a progressively worse defender as his scoring increased). Since he became a "star," his playoffs have been amazingly nothing. Plus, Harden seems to have a little of that Arenas/Metta/Rodman flakiness. Not sure how that would go over with Wall and some of the others.

I've always liked Beal, even during his rough rookie start and his bad patches this year. And, the Wizards get him for two more years at the rookie scale, and maybe he does become some sort of Ray Allen knockoff, which to me is definitely better than what I'm seeing from Harden. Still too early to be sure, but it's starting to look like not giving up Beal and other assets for Harden was the right way to go.

[hands11]

I worried some about Beal going into the playoffs.

He hadn't exactly been on a roll. I wondered how much he would press.

He has been a real bright spot and pleasant surprise. He seems to have really adapted and stepped up.

Nice steady production. And like you said, rebounds and defense as well. Short of his first ever NBA game at 20 years old, he have played really well. With him and Wall on the team, the future is bright.

Would I want Harden ?

No. Not a fan of that dude. I had a lot of fun watching him lose last night. Him and Howard.

Houston down 3-1 is pretty awesome. I'm actually becoming a fan of that POR team more. They are a very Wizards like team in some of ways. I like the roster.

I hope OKC loses as well.

[Illmatic21]

Harden is obviously a much better player than Beal currently. But having him on a max contract right now would have set us back.

Harden is basically Gilbert. He's a great individual player but forces you to build your offense around him dominating the ball, and won't make the guys around him better. On top of that he bleeds points on the defensive end.

Wall/Beal is a much more traditional backcourt than Wall/Harden, even if Beal is never on JH's level as an offensive force the team would work better due to the natural synergy. And Beal actually makes an attempt to defend his opposing matchup, unlike Harden.

If Beal makes 'the leap' Washington would look extremely attractive to FAs.. it's a traditional balanced lineup, everyone is unselfish and moves the ball, everyone plays defense, everyone does the little things. We just need an efficient #1 scoring option to round things out. I think if someone like Melo came here, we'd see him look a lot more like Team USA Melo than Knicks Melo. The spacing and balance of the roster is great, he would fit right in and give us exactly what we need. Whereas with a team like Chicago, he'd be forced to carry the offensive load all over again and the ball would stick to his hands. Even if Melo isn't the guy, I think Washington is gradually going to build a reputation of being an unselfish team that plays the right way, which is the best rep to attract FAs.

[ptptpt]

Just because it's fun to ask the question:

What does the board think about Beal vs. Harden right now? Just on gut feel, do you wish Harden was on this team, rather than Beal?

Through four playoff games, here are the stats:

Harden: 27.5 PPG, .350 FG%, .268 3p%, .871 FT%, 5.3 RPG, 5.5 APG, 1.3 SPG, 4.0 PF, 3.8 TO

Beal: 20.5 PPG, .435 FG%, .500 3p%, .905 FT%, 4.5 RPG, 4.3 APG, 0.8 SPG, 3.3 PF, 0.8 TO


Should we mention Beal's defense? Harden's contract? Their comparative age?

I know it's a ridiculously small sample size, but then Harden has been below .400 FG% in 3 of the 5 seasons he has been in the playoffs.

And if you prefer the Advanced stats, they get even uglier for Harden. He loses on PER (20.5 / 15.1), ORtg (128 / 103), DRtg (111 / 119), and WS/48 (.203 / .023). Oh, and despite being so inefficient (the usual knock on Beal), Harden's Usage rate is 30.5 compared to 21.7 for Beal.

Harden's a great player, but I'm not convinced I would trade Beal straight up for him right now. And 2nd year Beal is light years ahead of 2nd year Harden, IMO. I hope we get to see Beal in a Wiz uniform for a long time to come.

I'll take a developing Beal any day over a defense-less Harden. Can't allow the person you are guarding to score more points than you. And Harden does that dagone near every game. I don't trust anyone who lets Corey Brewer go off for 51 points. Part of this though I blame on McHale. A good coach would not let Harden get away with half of the antics he does during games. Pure carelessness. You will never win championships off of that.

[go'stags]

I'm not sure if I would trade Beal for Harden right now. But that may just be the optimistic homer in me.

But lets not give EG and Ted a ton of credit for foresight. recall the reports that they turned down the trade because they did not want to exceed the luxury tax after the Okariza trade. I know you all will suggest we don't really know exactly what happened, and that's true, but I don't see any reason to believe it isn't the case.

[Kanyewest]

I'm not sure if I would trade Beal for Harden right now. But that may just be the optimistic homer in me.

But lets not give EG and Ted a ton of credit for foresight. recall the reports that they turned down the trade because they did not want to exceed the luxury tax after the Okariza trade. I know you all will suggest we don't really know exactly what happened, and that's true, but I don't see any reason to believe it isn't the case.

Some of the reports indicated that Leonsis is a firm believer in the draft.

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/ ... es-harden/

This reports seems to indicate that OKC had preferred the package they got from the Rockets over a deal including Beal and Singleton.

[GhostsOfGil]

Harden is obviously a much better player than Beal currently. But having him on a max contract right now would have set us back.

Harden is basically Gilbert. He's a great individual player but forces you to build your offense around him dominating the ball, and won't make the guys around him better. On top of that he bleeds points on the defensive end.

A very poor mans version maybe. Gilbert's second year in the playoffs, he averaged 34 ppg, 25 PER, an oRTG of 119, and a TS% of 60%. Gilbert made players around him better (on the offensive end).

[Kanyewest]

Harden is obviously a much better player than Beal currently. But having him on a max contract right now would have set us back.

Harden is basically Gilbert. He's a great individual player but forces you to build your offense around him dominating the ball, and won't make the guys around him better. On top of that he bleeds points on the defensive end.

A very poor mans version maybe. Gilbert's second year in the playoffs, he averaged 34 ppg, 25 PER, an oRTG of 119, and a TS% of 60%. Gilbert made players around him better (on the offensive end).

Harden also makes Arenas look like an all NBA defender.

[FAH1223]

Harden is WAY worse than Gilbert Arenas on defense. WAY worse.

Harden doesn't even move his feet and gives no effort for the majority of the game. It's sad when he does give effort but he's always giving up backdoor cuts, Wes Matthews is posting him up at will too.

[dobrojim]

I'm not sure if I would trade Beal for Harden right now. But that may just be the optimistic homer in me.

But lets not give EG and Ted a ton of credit for foresight. recall the reports that they turned down the trade because they did not want to exceed the luxury tax after the Okariza trade. I know you all will suggest we don't really know exactly what happened, and that's true, but I don't see any reason to believe it isn't the case.

Some of the reports indicated that Leonsis is a firm believer in the draft.

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/ ... es-harden/

This reports seems to indicate that OKC had preferred the package they got from the Rockets over a deal including Beal and Singleton.

I'm not sure I ever believed the reports on us turning down the deal. It seems to me
likely that the reports were incomplete about all the details.

[crackhed]

lol i see harden doesn't have many fans here
i wouldnt trade bradley today for him either (especially considering his contract). how does someone who plays only one end of the floor make so much money?

[hands11]

Harden is obviously a much better player than Beal currently. But having him on a max contract right now would have set us back.

Harden is basically Gilbert. He's a great individual player but forces you to build your offense around him dominating the ball, and won't make the guys around him better. On top of that he bleeds points on the defensive end.

Wall/Beal is a much more traditional backcourt than Wall/Harden, even if Beal is never on JH's level as an offensive force the team would work better due to the natural synergy. And Beal actually makes an attempt to defend his opposing matchup, unlike Harden.

If Beal makes 'the leap' Washington would look extremely attractive to FAs.. it's a traditional balanced lineup, everyone is unselfish and moves the ball, everyone plays defense, everyone does the little things. We just need an efficient #1 scoring option to round things out. I think if someone like Melo came here, we'd see him look a lot more like Team USA Melo than Knicks Melo. The spacing and balance of the roster is great, he would fit right in and give us exactly what we need. Whereas with a team like Chicago, he'd be forced to carry the offensive load all over again and the ball would stick to his hands. Even if Melo isn't the guy, I think Washington is gradually going to build a reputation of being an unselfish team that plays the right way, which is the best rep to attract FAs.

Couldn't agree more.

And timing is everything when it comes to bringing in a player like Melo. Wall and Beal need to be big enough that Melo comes in knowing its not going to be the Melo show. He would be the one that needs to fit in and know that coming here. And no way I would pay him 18M to come. If that's what he wants, go elsewhere.

As for the last underline, if that is true, then EG did the one thing I was most concerned about. It was the thing I didn't know if he could do. Build a TEAM. I knew he could work through the early years of a rebuild. But could he put together a team where the personality were the right ones and they fit together?

Hate on the dude for Maynor or other things, but this team does seem to fit well together. I would be careful about what people get removed. I think its safe to say removing Singleton wouldn't change the dynamics. Same can be true of Glen Rice Jr. But pretty much every other pieces I think plays a role. Even Temple. What you replace them with will matter and how quickly will as well.

That's why I think they resign Gortat and TA and tinker with the players on the edge.

If the right big move presents itself, absolutely you look at it, but always consider the person when looking at the talent. For example. I wouldn't take D Howard on my team. I don't care what his numbers look like. I also wouldn't take Westbrook.

[hands11]

lol i see harden doesn't have many fans here
i wouldnt trade bradley today for him either (especially considering his contract). how does someone who plays only one end of the floor make so much money?

I have no idea. No none two way player should make more then 8M

They just give up to many pts. Its the net pts that matter most.

I have long felt that every start should first be a defender. If you can't defend, you shouldn't be starting. Then from there, find the ones with the best offense. Player that can only produce defense or offense are your bench players.

On a good team, every start can defend and the coach insists on that. Its the one man think that I liked about Randy. He was a defensive coach.

[Illmatic21]

I'm not sure if I would trade Beal for Harden right now. But that may just be the optimistic homer in me.

But lets not give EG and Ted a ton of credit for foresight. recall the reports that they turned down the trade because they did not want to exceed the luxury tax after the Okariza trade. I know you all will suggest we don't really know exactly what happened, and that's true, but I don't see any reason to believe it isn't the case.

Some of the reports indicated that Leonsis is a firm believer in the draft.

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/ ... es-harden/

This reports seems to indicate that OKC had preferred the package they got from the Rockets over a deal including Beal and Singleton.

I'm not sure I ever believed the reports on us turning down the deal. It seems to me
likely that the reports were incomplete about all the details.

It's been confirmed multiple times, including by Beal himself (OKC actually brought him in for a workout, despite their own pick being in the late 20s)

http://espn.go.com/nba/draft2012/story/ ... -moving-up

[stevemcqueen1]

I wouldn't have traded Beal for Harden at the time and was glad we didn't. I got killed for that opinion on a different forum. I loved Beal and didn't buy into Harden. I looked dumb when his scoring numbers blew up last season. But Harden is who I thought he was. A flawed player with an incomplete game whose contract would have kept us from finding the final pieces we'd need to become a legit good team.

I certainly wouldn't trade Beal for Harden today. Beal is going to be a complete player IMO. I think he'll be outright better than Harden in two years. That was always Beal's ceiling to me. Best SG in the NBA. Harden was Manu Ginobli with a shaky right hand and no defense--a markedly less valuable player than Ginobli.

Trading for Harden would have bouyed us last season when Wall got hurt. We wouldn't have gone 5-28, that's for sure. But I actually think that was good for us long term because it got us Porter in the end. And I am a believer in Porter's upside.

And because we get Beal on his rookie deal for two more years, it gives us time to fill out a better team than we would have had with Harden.

And still another concern, I wasn't interested in helping OKC maintain a juggernaut. Beal for Harden is now 1:1 value IMO. What they got from the Rockets was nowhere near as valuable an asset as Beal. Beal on that team keeps them loaded and they'd be a hell of a lot better off today. Why directly help build an unbeatable team in the West?

And finally, Harden might not have signed an extension. If he wouldn't guarantee he'd sign an extension before the trade, trading for him would have been lunacy. And this is what I heard happened, probably the deal breaker.

I'm glad we have Beal. I'm glad we have Porter. I hope we keep Gortat. And I hope we get a stretch 4 this summer. I don't have any regrets about not getting Harden at all.

[Higga]

I have always liked Beal but at the time I wanted Harden. I'm glad we didn't though, Beal is going to be a star and Harden is overrated(I've also grown to despise him for his flopping and just general d-baggery on the court).