Zach LaVine

shangrila · Post #241 » by **shangrila** » Sun Apr 20, 2014 7:53 am

jiggy08 wrote:all this lavine bashing....all i gotta say is JRUE HOLIDAY, dude.

So you have one example? Marvelous!

Holiday showed more in college anyway, IIRC. LaVine is nothing but athleticism. Jrue at least had some skills.

ManualRam · Post #242 » by **ManualRam** » Sun Apr 20, 2014 8:25 am

lavine's not devoid of skill. he can shoot the ball and he showed that he can get his shot off in different situations (spot up, off dribble, on the move). he's also comfortable handling the ball, while having some shake to his game too.
it all needs polishing, but i wouldn't describe his game as strictly athleticism.

miltk · Post #243 » by **miltk** » Sun Apr 20, 2014 8:40 am

jiggy08 wrote:all this lavine bashing....all i gotta say is JRUE HOLIDAY, dude.

WHOAH!!!
how coincidental! i'm having a discussion on a bruin board about lavine, and a poster just brought up jrue holiday. i said lavine had shown nothing and someone responded with neither did holiday. LOL jrue had a resume and cachet with the scouts. he was a gpoy, trading #1 spots with tyreke evans. at the combines, jrue only had to prove to the scouts that he was still the guy they scouted in high school...my guess is lavine will have to prove to the scouts,,,everything. lavine was a lightly regarded, under the radar 5* until he exploded on his first 8 games against cupcakes. then somebody said "westbrook with a shot", and that statement define lavine for the rest of his year. lavine is a classic flave of the month.

so i'll ask, would you trade jrue(injury aside) for the rights to lavine??? because here's what you have - lavine might go as high or higher than jrue, he's a better shooter than jrue(or so people think), he skies way better than jrue, people seem to think zach's potential is out of this world which they NEVER said about jrue....

so would you do it. or more to the point, do you think no would do it.

CaliBullsFan · Post #244 » by **CaliBullsFan** » Sun Apr 20, 2014 11:09 am

Dukenukem23 wrote:
CaliBullsFan wrote:This kid has mega bust written all over him IMO. How do you enter the draft when you aren't even good enough to start in college yet?

Dion waiters says HELLO!

Waiters like Marvin Williams didn't start because they had really good upperclassman ahead of them on POWERHOUSE teams. Lavine doesn't start because he's not good enough.

CaliBullsFan · Post #245 » by **CaliBullsFan** » Sun Apr 20, 2014 11:17 am

jmnvcavs wrote:Leaving early for the nba will prepare you more for the nba than 2 years of college. If this kid falls to a good organization. Look out.

You should have some part of your game developed before you even think about the NBA. The NBA is not the place for you to be starting from scratch, A guy like Deandre Jordan is a huge outlier.

Golabki · Post #246 » by **Golabki** » Sun Apr 20, 2014 4:20 pm

miltk wrote:
jiggy08 wrote:all this lavine bashing....all i gotta say is JRUE HOLIDAY, dude.

WHOAH!!!
how coincidental! i'm having a discussion on a bruin board about lavine, and a poster just brought up jrue holiday. i said lavine had shown nothing and someone responded with neither did holiday. LOL jrue had a resume and cachet with the scouts. he was a gpoy, trading #1 spots with tyreke evans. at the combines, jrue only had to prove to the scouts that he was still the guy they scouted in high school...my guess is lavine will have to prove to the scouts,,,everything. lavine was a lightly regarded, under the radar 5* until he exploded on his first 8 games against cupcakes. then somebody said "westbrook with a shot", and that statement define lavine for the rest of his year. lavine is a classic flave of the month.

so i'll ask, would you trade jrue(injury aside) for the rights to lavine??? because here's what you have - lavine might go as high or higher than jrue, he's a better shooter than jrue(or so people think), he skies way better than jrue, people seem to think zach's potential is out of this world which they NEVER said about jrue....

so would you do it. or more to the point, do you think no would do it.

It's fair to say Holiday wasn't a great college player, but he put up better numbers in assists, rebounds, steals and blocks.

Westbrook's freshman year was comparably bad to LaVine, but he came back and was a very improved player in year two.

rumdiary · Post #247 » by **rumdiary** » Sun Apr 20, 2014 9:43 pm

The reason LaVine's getting all this discussion is because his potential ceiling is Russell Westbrook. That's reason alone to draft him in the lottery.

In 2011 there was one guy with a 5-star potential ceiling: Kyrie Irving. In 2012 there was one guy: Anthony Davis.

This year there are five: Andrew Wiggins, Jabari Parker, Joel Embiid, Dante Exum and Zach LaVine.

LaVine is very, very, very unlikely to reach his potential ceiling, but the fact that it's there, that it exists, is what made me scour every single UCLA game this year for the few minutes he had!

No-Man · Post #248 » by **No-Man** » Sun Apr 20, 2014 9:52 pm

LaVine potential ceiling is more Jamal Crawford/Ron Harper/Klay Thompson/Ray Allen/Manu Ginobili type of guard than Westbrook, he is a clear SG right now.

Dr Positivity · Post #249 » by **Dr Positivity** » Sun Apr 20, 2014 11:07 pm

Yeah even if one disregarded the difference in athleticism, Lavine being a toothpick is a big difference v RWB, not to mention Westbrook is one of the very best ballhandlers in the NBA, while Lavine struggles to drive to the rim off the dribble. The comparison is like Ben McLemore/Terrence Ross to Dwyane Wade.

Lavine is athletic but he's not superhuman athletic. He's not the Wiggins of SGs. He has more in common with Chase Budinger than most of these comparisons (Budinger being a dunk contest athlete who's style of play was nonetheless all jumpshots). And frankly having Bud's career would be a nice result for Lavine

ManualRam · Post #250 » by **ManualRam** » Sun Apr 20, 2014 11:51 pm

Dr Positivity wrote:Yeah even if one disregarded the difference in athleticism, Lavine being a toothpick is a big difference v RWB, not to mention Westbrook is one of the very best ballhandlers in the NBA, while Lavine struggles to drive to the rim off the dribble. The comparison is like Ben McLemore/Terrence Ross to Dwyane Wade.

Lavine is athletic but he's not superhuman athletic. He's not the Wiggins of SGs. He has more in common with Chase Budinger than most of these comparisons (Budinger being a dunk contest athlete who's style of play was nonetheless all jumpshots). And frankly having Bud's career would be a nice result for Lavine

lavine's struggles driving have nothing to do with his handle. his issue driving is finishing and playing through contact, not handling. he's more comfortable handling the ball than either mclemore or ross at the same stage.

i also disagree with your take on his athleticism. he's plenty quick laterally and in straight lines. he's very fast changing ends and he's explosive off of 1 or 2 feet unlike budinger. he does not have to gather to explode. unless you count wiggins as a 2, lavine is the most athletic 2 guard in this draft.

No-Man · Post #251 » by **No-Man** » Mon Apr 21, 2014 12:25 am

LaVine has a sick dribble, his problems are not there, he is just a very poor finisher, both in strength and technique, he needs to train with Tony Parker one summer.

He is way quicker than Budinger come on.

I think Markel Brown and Nick Johnson could be close to LaVine in explosion, but Zach is quicker than both.

EMG518 · Post #252 » by **EMG518** » Mon Apr 21, 2014 3:01 am

Im not touching him anywhere near the top half of the draft. Towards the end of the 1st I might take a flyer on him. I think he is going to wind up being a bust.

miltk · Post #253 » by **miltk** » Sat Apr 26, 2014 9:39 pm

rumdiary wrote:The reason LaVine's getting all this discussion is because his potential ceiling is Russell Westbrook. That's reason alone to draft him in the lottery.

In 2011 there was one guy with a 5-star potential ceiling: Kyrie Irving. In 2012 there was one guy: Anthony Davis.

This year there are five: Andrew Wiggins, Jabari Parker, Joel Embiid, Dante Exum and Zach LaVine.

LaVine is very, very, very unlikely to reach his potential ceiling, but the fact that it's there, that it exists, is what made me scour every single UCLA game this year for the few minutes he had!

there's a flaw here. what if no one ever said "westbrook with a shot". that is basically why he's being drafted.because he has done nothing westbrookian nor done anything jj.redickian

Sixercise · Post #254 » by **Sixercise** » Wed Apr 30, 2014 6:23 pm

shangrila wrote:So you have one example? Marvelous!

Holiday showed more in college anyway, IIRC. LaVine is nothing but athleticism. Jrue at least had some skills.

Just to clarify, Jrue isn't being mentioned to compare players' profiles. This has more to do with how poorly UCLA has developed their guards in years past (that school is more focused on big men offense). As a sixer fan, i wasn't especially thrilled when we got jrue 5 years ago, but i could understand that they drafted him based on his defensive potential and his high school cred (which zach doesnt even compare, btw). Turns out that jrue exceeded everyone's expectations and developed a reliable jumper.

Zach is by no means similar to jrue except that both players weren't impressive in their only year in college (i'm barely giving the nod to jrue in that department). but that doesn't mean that zach can't improve. at least he has the athleticism and the 3-ball to be an effective 2 guard. Dont sleep on this dude

miltk · Post #255 » by **miltk** » Wed Apr 30, 2014 8:25 pm

jiggy08 wrote:
This has more to do with how poorly UCLA has developed their guards in years past

what a strange thing to say

miltk · Post #256 » by **miltk** » Wed Apr 30, 2014 8:31 pm

Golabki wrote:
miltk wrote:
jiggy08 wrote:all this lavine bashing....all i gotta say is JRUE HOLIDAY, dude.

WHOAH!!!
how coincidental! i'm having a discussion on a bruin board about lavine, and a poster just brought up jrue holiday. i said lavine had shown nothing and someone responded with neither did holiday. LOL jrue had a resume and cachet with the scouts. he was a gpoy, trading #1 spots with tyreke evans. at the combines, jrue only had to prove to the scouts that he was still the guy they scouted in high school...my guess is lavine will have to prove to the scouts,,,everything. lavine was a lightly regarded, under the radar 5* until he exploded on his first 8 games against cupcakes. then somebody said "westbrook with a shot", and that statement define lavine for the rest of his year. lavine is a classic flave of the month.

so i'll ask, would you trade jrue(injury aside) for the rights to lavine??? because here's what you have - lavine might go as high or higher than jrue, he's a better shooter than jrue(or so people think), he skies way better than jrue, people seem to think zach's potential is out of this world which they NEVER said about jrue....

so would you do it. or more to the point, do you think no would do it.

It's fair to say Holiday wasn't a great college player, but he put up better numbers in assists, rebounds, steals and blocks.

Westbrook's freshman year was comparably bad to LaVine, but he came back and was a very improved player in year two.

if you only talk about numbers, then comparisons can be made. but in regards to jrue i was talking about his cachet as a gatorade poy and a player who was followed closely throughout his hs career. lavine by compaarison was flying under the radar. players who have cachet only require validation. players with no cachet need proof.

rumdiary · Post #257 » by **rumdiary** » Wed Apr 30, 2014 9:53 pm

miltk wrote:
rumdiary wrote:The reason LaVine's getting all this discussion is because his potential ceiling is Russell Westbrook. That's reason alone to draft him in the lottery.

In 2011 there was one guy with a 5-star potential ceiling: Kyrie Irving. In 2012 there was one guy: Anthony Davis.

This year there are five: Andrew Wiggins, Jabari Parker, Joel Embiid, Dante Exum and Zach LaVine.

LaVine is very, very, very unlikely to reach his potential ceiling, but the fact that it's there, that it exists, is what made me scour every single UCLA game this year for the few minutes he had!

there's a flaw here. what if no one ever said "westbrook with a shot". that is basically why he's being drafted.because he has done nothing westbrookian nor done anything jj.redickian

I think Zach's definitely displayed a Westbrook-level of athleticism in the way he attacks defenses.

Scouring through UCLA's general sports highlights for hours I found lots of examples that really made me excited.

He's a good shooter but not great, but that's true of Westbrook too.

Maybe the main difference is his strength and bulk, or lack of it!

Post #258 » by **Marcus** » Wed Apr 30, 2014 10:03 pm

rumdiary wrote:Maybe the main difference is his strength and bulk, or lack of it!

along with mentality, activity on defense, and finishing ability.

Russ is a pitbull, he IS stronger than LaVine but even if he wasn't he'd still go to the rack stronger than Zach does and wouldn't shy from contact.

For Zach to be arguably the most talented dude on the floor at many different times during the season, playing within the team concept or not there are take over moments, make something happen moments, make the best play possible moments, that "the most talented guy" takes advantage of focal point or not.

He didn't.

He's gotta get past that mentality first to unlock the rest that goes along with it. The talent and potential is there though.

ManualRam · Post #259 » by **ManualRam** » Wed Apr 30, 2014 10:05 pm

westbrook/ lavine was one of the dumber comparisons i've seen this yr.
they're athletic and they're guards. oh, and they went to the same school. that's pretty much it.

Post #260 » by **Marcus** » Wed Apr 30, 2014 10:12 pm

ManualRam wrote:westbrook/ lavine was one of the dumber comparisons i've seen this yr.
they're athletic and they're guards. oh, and they went to the same school. that's pretty much it.

comparisons are based on look, not ability and skillset. It's easier that way.

LaVine/Westbrook
Exum/Penny
Embiid/Hakeem
Jules Randle/Z-Bo
Bari/Melo
Wiggins/Gay,Jordan,LeBron,Pippen etc etc