Official Trade Thread - Part XXVII

[pcbothwel]

Not gonna happen. Haywood has essentially what amounts to a $10M balloon payment if he isn't cut by Summer 2015. Only ridiculously rich owners like the Nets and Knicks are willing to take on a $10M deadweight contract just to have ballast to use in a trade. Ted and most other owners would just cut him in Summer 2015.

There would be month(July 1st to Aug 1st) where he could be traded and then waived. Hmm maybe Milwaukee wants a do-over on the 11 million/year owed to Sanders.

Hmmm. I didn't realize there was that 1-month window. Forget everything I just said. That could indeed be a significant asset. It's basically a $10M trade exemption, only one that can be packaged with other players in a combination deal; and one to which the 125% rule can be applied.

Exactly...The Bobcats board doesn't seem to care that much about it. This opportunity NEVER HAPPENS. NO ONE gets paid 2M and then has the 10M nonguaranteed, but because of the amnesty from Dallas it happened with Haywood. Also, most all guarantees happen July 1 or before so teams can do this, but haywoods is August 1...we have to find a way to get him.

Like I said, worst case scenario, no star becomes available and we trade him for a guaranteed salary and a 2015 1st.

[payitforward]

The team is on the verge of making a playoff run before our eyes and you're still on Eric Maynor? Wow. Besides, I never "wanted" Maynor. I just didn't rush to judgement and was willing to see how it would work out, hopeful that it would. And that's the same approach I'm taking to retaining guys like Gortat and Ariza in the offseason. Let's see how it plays out.

If you want to take a different approach, that's fine but that's on you and it won't impact my enjoyment of the current squad. Go Wiz!

LOL -- you are really funny, LR. Why don't you remind me of one time -- ever! -- when you thought timing was right to be critical of Ernie. Can you point to even one occasion?

As to Maynor, sorry -- you were clear, confident and unwavering about what a terrific upgrade Maynor was at the back up point guard. Those of us who noticed that he'd never been good and there was no chance he'd all of a sudden start being good weren't guilty of any "rush to judgement." We were simply right. And you were simply wrong. Would it be so painful for you to admit that?

Finally, as to "enjoyment of the current squad," I'm not taking any back seat to you, amigo. It's terrific to win, and we are looking at some good fortune in whom we are facing in the East in this run. Lets make the most of it!

You look really petty harping on Maynor PIF. Who cares if LR was wrong about Maynor? Who cares if Ernie was wrong about Maynor? It was a 2 year 2 million dollar contract that he traded almost immediately after he found out it didn't work out. BFD.

You actually seem conflicted about the fact the team is having some success and might make a playoff run because it would mean Grunfeld built a decent team.

I'm not conflicted about success -- couldn't be more excited in fact! But you are right that I could look that way....

So I'll put a hold on FO criticism for the rest of the run. This is great fun; I hope we win the title, and I look like an idiot -- it'd be a small price to pay!

Go Wizards!!

[payitforward]

I'm fine with re-signing Gortat to a 3yr deal, but re-signing Ariza would be a mistake.

I know folks are worried about 2016, but how many stars actually sign somewhere with pure outright cap space? Boston's Big Three came about through trades. The Lakers got Gasol by trade, as did NYK with Melo and LAC with CP3. Even when the Miami trio came together it was technically by S&T (although for picks, not players). Other than Amare a couple years ago and Dwight this past summer, how many true stars change teams by signing for pure cap space?

My point is this: say we fast-forward to 2016, Durant actually wants to come here, and we have guys like Gortat/Ariza who still have a bit left in the tank and a year left on their deals (assuming they sign 3 year deals this summer). Doing a S&T with OKC where they get something back wouldn't be out of the question IMO. So just because a couple of guys may end up with deals that go beyond 2016 doesn't completely kill our flexibility IMO.

This is what I was trying to argue in the Kevin Durant to Washington thread. If Durant wanted to come here to make a big 3 with Beal and Wall, there would be a way to figure it out. That's how it's always worked with big threes and other transactions that you talked about.

I don't really wanna re-sign Ariza for real big money and I think that's what he is going want, because I want Otto to get minutes. People say okay then trade Webster, but I don't know if anyone is going to take him on that contract. I hope someone does if that's the case. I just want Otto to get the opportunity to get more minutes and show what he's got as the #3 overall pick.

How could any responsible GM let speculation about a single guy (no matter how good) signing with us as a FA more than two years from now? That's a really crazy idea. And, what would make anyone think Durant wants to play here in his home town? He's said over and over again and very specifically that he *doesn't* want to do that! *Because* it's his home town!

Doesn't mean he won't wind up here of course. But it's a long-shot to say the least. Surely LA or NY are his most likely destinations.

It's hard enough to build a good team without torqueing the project w/ something like this.

[bealwithit]

I know folks are worried about 2016, but how many stars actually sign somewhere with pure outright cap space? Boston's Big Three came about through trades. The Lakers got Gasol by trade, as did NYK with Melo and LAC with CP3. Even when the Miami trio came together it was technically by S&T (although for picks, not players). Other than Amare a couple years ago and Dwight this past summer, how many true stars change teams by signing for pure cap space?

My point is this: say we fast-forward to 2016, Durant actually wants to come here, and we have guys like Gortat/Ariza who still have a bit left in the tank and a year left on their deals (assuming they sign 3 year deals this summer). Doing a S&T with OKC where they get something back wouldn't be out of the question IMO. So just because a couple of guys may end up with deals that go beyond 2016 doesn't completely kill our flexibility IMO.

This is what I was trying to argue in the Kevin Durant to Washington thread. If Durant wanted to come here to make a big 3 with Beal and Wall, there would be a way to figure it out. That's how it's always worked with big threes and other transactions that you talked about.

I don't really wanna re-sign Ariza for real big money and I think that's what he is going want, because I want Otto to get minutes. People say okay then trade Webster, but I don't know if anyone is going to take him on that contract. I hope someone does if that's the case. I just want Otto to get the opportunity to get more minutes and show what he's got as the #3 overall pick.

How could any responsible GM let speculation about a single guy (no matter how good) signing with us as a FA more than two years from now? That's a really crazy idea. And, what would make anyone think Durant wants to play here in his home town? He's said over and over again and very specifically that he *doesn't* want to do that! *Because* it's his home town!

Doesn't mean he won't wind up here of course. But it's a long-shot to say the least. Surely LA or NY are his most likely destinations.

It's hard enough to build a good team without torqueing the project w/ something like this.

I agree and I've said this multiple times in this thread and another I think.

[LyricalRico]

^ Agree, I think we're all saying the same thing - decisions made this summer can't be predicated on what may or may not happen several years down the road. The thought I was trying to add is that just because contracts are signed for a certain length doesn't mean that all flexibility is sacrificed.

Another example would be GSW being able to both re-sign Bogut and sign Iguodala last summer. They had other contracts on their books, but were still able to maneuver to make the moves they needed to make. So I'm not going to panic if Gortat and Ariza are signed to 3+ year deals. Opportunities will still be there down the road.

[hands11]

I'm fine with re-signing Gortat to a 3yr deal, but re-signing Ariza would be a mistake.

Agree on Gortat, even if there's a 4th year (hopefully only partially guaranteed).

I've gone back and forth on Ariza. First, I wanted him traded last summer for bench help (my favorite idea was Ariza to Minny for DWill and either Ridnour or Barea). Then he blew up this season and I wanted to keep him. And then I looked at the cap numbers again and felt it might still be prudent to let him walk.

But he's a bonafide 3&D guy that can guard any team's best scorer (see how he shut down Augustin after the first couple of games) and he doesn't shrink in big spots (see his playoff shooting). If we can get him to do an oversized 2 year deal, that would be ideal. But I wouldn't be opposed to a 3 year deal for him.

I know folks are worried about 2016, but how many stars actually sign somewhere with pure outright cap space? Boston's Big Three came about through trades. The Lakers got Gasol by trade, as did NYK with Melo and LAC with CP3. Even when the Miami trio came together it was technically by S&T (although for picks, not players). Other than Amare a couple years ago and Dwight this past summer, how many true stars change teams by signing for pure cap space?

My point is this: say we fast-forward to 2016, Durant actually wants to come here, and we have guys like Gortat/Ariza who still have a bit left in the tank and a year left on their deals (assuming they sign 3 year deals this summer). Doing a S&T with OKC where they get something back wouldn't be out of the question IMO. So just because a couple of guys may end up with deals that go beyond 2016 doesn't completely kill our flexibility IMO.

Yes

I don't know why people are missing this. Signing them past 2016 is fine. They can be traded.

I expect they sign them both... ( if TA wants to stay instead of going to Dallas )

Then the entire board will explode.
Specially after Randy and EG are resigned.

Oh, its going to be fun times around here for sure.

[nate33]

Here's a couple of ideas I've seen recently, all combined together into a coherent plan.

Trade 1:
WAS Trades: Nene
OKC Trades: Perkins + Adams + #21

Trade 2:
WAS Trades: Webster
NOP Trades: Pierre Jackson + $4.5M TPE

First day of offseason:
* Waive Andre Miller
* Renounce RFA rights to Booker, Seraphin and Singleton
* Buy out Perkins' $9.6M contract for $7M cash. (He can make up the difference by joining some team for the BAE)

Our payroll would sit at $36M with only Wall, Beal, Porter, Adams, Glen Rice Jr, Pierre Jackson, our #21 pick, and the phantom salaries of Perkins and Andre Miller.

Free agency:
* Resign Ariza 4-years, $30M, structured to minimize his 2015 cap hit. That's $7.5M, $6.9M, $7.5M, $8.1M over the next 4 years respectively.
* Sign Booker: 1-year $4M
* With the remaining $15.3M in cap room, sign Gortat to a Nick Collison style contract heavily frontloaded. The total contract is 4 years $40M, but it would be structured: 15.1M, $7.7M, $8.3M, $8.9M
* Resign Andre Miller and Drew Gooden to 1-year vet minimum contracts.

Our team next year:

PG Wall/Jackson/Miller
SG Beal/Rice/Miller
SF Ariza/Porter
PF Booker/Gooden/#21 pick?
C Gortat/Adams

The team is much younger and only slightly worse than this year. But with Wall and Beal's postseason experience, I expect more regular season wins based on swagger alone.

In 2015, the phantom salaries of Miller's buyout and Perkins come off the books. Booker also comes off. That leaves us with a payroll of $46.8M. Assuming the salary cap inches up to $65M or so, that's $18M in cap room to throw at Kevin Love!

Team the following season:
PG Wall/Jackson
SG Beal/Rice
SF Ariza/Porter
PF Love/2014 draft pick
C Gortat/Adams

That's a contender despite Wall, Beal and Love all aged 26 or younger. The oldest guys would be Gortat and Ariza at 31 and 29, which isn't that old (and both have high-potential young understudies in Adams and Porter).

[bealwithit]

Here's a couple of ideas I've seen recently, all combined together into a coherent plan.

nate4gm

[Sluggerface]

Here's a couple of ideas I've seen recently, all combined together into a coherent plan.

Trade 1:
WAS Trades: Nene
OKC Trades: Perkins + Adams + #21

Trade 2:
WAS Trades: Webster
NOP Trades: Pierre Jackson + $4.5M TPE

First day of offseason:
* Waive Andre Miller
* Renounce RFA rights to Booker, Seraphin and Singleton
* Buy out Perkins' $9.6M contract for $7M cash. (He can make up the difference by joining some team for the BAE)

Our payroll would sit at $36M with only Wall, Beal, Porter, Adams, Glen Rice Jr, Pierre Jackson, our #21 pick, and the phantom salaries of Perkins and Andre Miller.

Free agency:
* Resign Ariza 4-years, $30M, structured to minimize his 2015 cap hit. That's $7.5M, $6.9M, $7.5M, $8.1M over the next 4 years respectively.
* Sign Booker: 1-year $4M
* With the remaining $15.3M in cap room, sign Gortat to a Nick Collison style contract heavily frontloaded. The total contract is 4 years $40M, but it would be structured: 15.1M, $7.7M, $8.3M, $8.9M
* Resign Andre Miller and Drew Gooden to 1-year vet minimum contracts.

Our team next year:

PG Wall/Jackson/Miller
SG Beal/Rice/Miller
SF Ariza/Porter
PF Booker/Gooden/#21 pick?
C Gortat/Adams

The team is much younger and only slightly worse than this year. But with Wall and Beal's postseason experience, I expect more regular season wins based on swagger alone.

In 2015, the phantom salaries of Miller's buyout and Perkins come off the books. Booker also comes off. That leaves us with a payroll of $46.8M. Assuming the salary cap inches up to $65M or so, that's $18M in cap room to throw at Kevin Love!

Team the following season:
PG Wall/Jackson
SG Beal/Rice
SF Ariza/Porter
PF Love/2014 draft pick
C Gortat/Adams

That's a contender despite Wall, Beal and Love all aged 26 or younger. The oldest guys would be Gortat and Ariza at 31 and 29, which isn't that old (and both have high-potential young understudies in Adams and Porter).

That kind of resource management makes my dick rock hard. I don't see EG being that savvy though.

[dangermouse]

Here's a couple of ideas I've seen recently, all combined together into a coherent plan.

I feel like i just read The Iliad or looked at the Mona Lisa.

A true masterpiece of a trade.

[WizardsWorld]

If the Wizards were offered Love and Martin for Beal and Nene, do the Wizards do that?

Not a chance in the world. But then again, I hate Love,.. and love Beal. I know most people on here get wet over Love for some reason I cant figure out.

[Ruzious]

If the Wizards were offered Love and Martin for Beal and Nene, do the Wizards do that?

Not a chance in the world. But then again, I hate Love,.. and love Beal. I know most people on here get wet over Love for some reason I cant figure out.

Mainly because he's the third most productive player in the NBA behind Durant and Lebron, does it efficiently - and is 25 years old.

[Nivek]

If the Wizards were offered Love and Martin for Beal and Nene, do the Wizards do that?

This would be an absolute no-brainer yes.

[Jay81]

If the Wizards were offered Love and Martin for Beal and Nene, do the Wizards do that?

This would be an absolute no-brainer yes.

i would get rid of Nene's contract for almost anyone's non bad contract

[FAH1223]

Here's a couple of ideas I've seen recently, all combined together into a coherent plan.

Trade 1:
WAS Trades: Nene
OKC Trades: Perkins + Adams + #21

Trade 2:
WAS Trades: Webster
NOP Trades: Pierre Jackson + $4.5M TPE

First day of offseason:
* Waive Andre Miller
* Renounce RFA rights to Booker, Seraphin and Singleton
* Buy out Perkins' $9.6M contract for $7M cash. (He can make up the difference by joining some team for the BAE)

Our payroll would sit at $36M with only Wall, Beal, Porter, Adams, Glen Rice Jr, Pierre Jackson, our #21 pick, and the phantom salaries of Perkins and Andre Miller.

Free agency:
* Resign Ariza 4-years, $30M, structured to minimize his 2015 cap hit. That's $7.5M, $6.9M, $7.5M, $8.1M over the next 4 years respectively.
* Sign Booker: 1-year $4M
* With the remaining $15.3M in cap room, sign Gortat to a Nick Collison style contract heavily frontloaded. The total contract is 4 years $40M, but it would be structured: 15.1M, $7.7M, $8.3M, $8.9M
* Resign Andre Miller and Drew Gooden to 1-year vet minimum contracts.

Our team next year:

PG Wall/Jackson/Miller
SG Beal/Rice/Miller
SF Ariza/Porter
PF Booker/Gooden/#21 pick?
C Gortat/Adams

The team is much younger and only slightly worse than this year. But with Wall and Beal's postseason experience, I expect more regular season wins based on swagger alone.

In 2015, the phantom salaries of Miller's buyout and Perkins come off the books. Booker also comes off. That leaves us with a payroll of $46.8M. Assuming the salary cap inches up to $65M or so, that's $18M in cap room to throw at Kevin Love!

Team the following season:
PG Wall/Jackson
SG Beal/Rice
SF Ariza/Porter
PF Love/2014 draft pick
C Gortat/Adams

That's a contender despite Wall, Beal and Love all aged 26 or younger. The oldest guys would be Gortat and Ariza at 31 and 29, which isn't that old (and both have high-potential young understudies in Adams and Porter).

Quick question nate, but we can re-sign Miller after waiving him?

[verbal8]

Quick question nate, but we can re-sign Miller after waiving him?

Yes. The restriction is on players who are traded away can not be resigned by the team that trade them away. Moves like what Cleveland did with Big Z in the Jamison deal are not longer allowed.

[verbal8]

Here's a couple of ideas I've seen recently, all combined together into a coherent plan.

Trade 1:
WAS Trades: Nene
OKC Trades: Perkins + Adams + #21

Trade 2:
WAS Trades: Webster
NOP Trades: Pierre Jackson + $4.5M TPE

First day of offseason:
* Waive Andre Miller
* Renounce RFA rights to Booker, Seraphin and Singleton
* Buy out Perkins' $9.6M contract for $7M cash. (He can make up the difference by joining some team for the BAE)

I had a similar thought, but targeting Monroe with the cap space rather than retaining Ariza. I didn't have a Nene deal in the series of moves I was thinking of, but that might make the options even better, especially if Adams comes back in a Nene deal.

With Gortat my thought was to overpay him for 2 or 3(with partial guarrantee), so the Wizards are set up for the Durant, Horford, etc(might even be Love) FA class. If we have Adams, I would overpay Ariza instead.

I think this roster could make the play-offs and have a lot of flexibility going forward:

Wall/P. Jackson
Beal/Miller
Ariza/Porter
Booker/Gooden/21st pick?
Monroe/Adams

I would aim to sign Monroe/Ariza to deals that are movable(or expiring for 2015). If Adams and/or Porter break-out this team is set-up perfectly to add Love, Durant or Horford.

[fishercob]

Here's a couple of ideas I've seen recently, all combined together into a coherent plan.

Trade 1:
WAS Trades: Nene
OKC Trades: Perkins + Adams + #21

Trade 2:
WAS Trades: Webster
NOP Trades: Pierre Jackson + $4.5M TPE

First day of offseason:
* Waive Andre Miller
* Renounce RFA rights to Booker, Seraphin and Singleton
* Buy out Perkins' $9.6M contract for $7M cash. (He can make up the difference by joining some team for the BAE)

Our payroll would sit at $36M with only Wall, Beal, Porter, Adams, Glen Rice Jr, Pierre Jackson, our #21 pick, and the phantom salaries of Perkins and Andre Miller.

Free agency:
* Resign Ariza 4-years, $30M, structured to minimize his 2015 cap hit. That's $7.5M, $6.9M, $7.5M, $8.1M over the next 4 years respectively.
* Sign Booker: 1-year $4M
* With the remaining $15.3M in cap room, sign Gortat to a Nick Collison style contract heavily frontloaded. The total contract is 4 years $40M, but it would be structured: 15.1M, $7.7M, $8.3M, $8.9M
* Resign Andre Miller and Drew Gooden to 1-year vet minimum contracts.

Our team next year:

PG Wall/Jackson/Miller
SG Beal/Rice/Miller
SF Ariza/Porter
PF Booker/Gooden/#21 pick?
C Gortat/Adams

The team is much younger and only slightly worse than this year. But with Wall and Beal's postseason experience, I expect more regular season wins based on swagger alone.

In 2015, the phantom salaries of Miller's buyout and Perkins come off the books. Booker also comes off. That leaves us with a payroll of $46.8M. Assuming the salary cap inches up to $65M or so, that's $18M in cap room to throw at Kevin Love!

Team the following season:
PG Wall/Jackson
SG Beal/Rice
SF Ariza/Porter
PF Love/2014 draft pick
C Gortat/Adams

That's a contender despite Wall, Beal and Love all aged 26 or younger. The oldest guys would be Gortat and Ariza at 31 and 29, which isn't that old (and both have high-potential young understudies in Adams and Porter).

That kind of resource management makes my dick rock hard. I don't see EG being that savvy though.

Congratulations on your word choice. That's just fantastic mental imagery.

Oh yeah, nice work nate

[rl25g]

if we were to make a (absolutely great) trade where we could acquire Adams, could we sign Gortat for 3 years rather than 4. That way he is off the books when Adams is due for an extension..

[barelyawake]

This is what I was trying to argue in the Kevin Durant to Washington thread. If Durant wanted to come here to make a big 3 with Beal and Wall, there would be a way to figure it out. That's how it's always worked with big threes and other transactions that you talked about.

I don't really wanna re-sign Ariza for real big money and I think that's what he is going want, because I want Otto to get minutes. People say okay then trade Webster, but I don't know if anyone is going to take him on that contract. I hope someone does if that's the case. I just want Otto to get the opportunity to get more minutes and show what he's got as the #3 overall pick.

How could any responsible GM let speculation about a single guy (no matter how good) signing with us as a FA more than two years from now? That's a really crazy idea. And, what would make anyone think Durant wants to play here in his home town? He's said over and over again and very specifically that he *doesn't* want to do that! *Because* it's his home town!

Doesn't mean he won't wind up here of course. But it's a long-shot to say the least. Surely LA or NY are his most likely destinations.

It's hard enough to build a good team without torqueing the project w/ something like this.

I agree and I've said this multiple times in this thread and another I think.

Keeping a flexible cap (which also means we could chase Durant) does not mean we are putting all of our eggs in one basket. Have you checked the free agents available in the upcoming years? See anyone better than Gortat? The problem is that the free agents aren't great THIS offseason -- but will be the offseason after, and the offseason after that. So, if we clog our cap with Gortat, we have no shot at them (unless you believe that Gortat will prove such a bargain that he is a great trade asset -- I tend to think after this run he will be overpriced instead). So, the question becomes is there a way to remain flexible while still making another run next season. I've offered a few ways. Nate and others have as well. The goal is a possibility to get SOME superstar (not JUST Durant).