Roy Hibbert is an all-star and Kwame is a bust? How?

[JohnBFanatic123]

Roy Hibbert was straight garbage in his game today and the only thing he did well was drink Gatorade. Kwame did everything that Roy Hibbert has done and better in his career so far.

Yet, Kwame is a bust. If anything the Pacers do well despite him. How can people keep overrating him?

[montestewart]

Roy Hibbert was straight garbage in his game today and the only thing he did well was drink Gatorade. Kwame did everything that Roy Hibbert has done and better in his career so far.

Yet, Kwame is a bust. If anything the Pacers do well despite him. How can people keep overrating him?

He puts the tang in intangibles. Could Kwame do that? There is no I in bust.

[JohnBFanatic123]

Kwame brought intangibles (rebounding and scoring). Roy Hibbert looks like he's just sleep-walking out there. He has no post-moves. He's the worst PF I've ever seen. Worse than Jan Veasley.

[FAH1223]

Compare Kwame's 2003-2004 season with Roy's 2013-14 season and they are pretty similar.

[montestewart]

Compare Kwame's 2003-2004 season with Roy's 2013-14 season and they are pretty similar.

But Kwame was clawing his way up after being the #1 pick, whereas Hibbert was a #17 (?), rose to being a godd to very good center, and is now on the downside of a curve. He started lower and has reached higher than Kwame ever did. Maybe he'll never return to that level (and this year, he was riding on fumes to get to the ASG).

PS: Hibbert is only a PF in Land of the Giants.

[GSWBlooded93]

You see Gilbert Arenas Instagram account, he was straight up trashing Hibbert haha.

[verbal8]

Kwame brought intangibles (rebounding and scoring).

Those are pretty tangible.

Kwame was never anything special as a scorer never over 11 ppg or 12 pts/36 min.

Hibbert's lowest scoring since his rookie year was 10.8 ppg(this year) which was the same as Kwame's best year. Hibbert blocks shots which is something Kwame never did at a significant rate. Hibbert also has an acceptable Assist/TO rate for a big, Kwame did not.

[JohnBFanatic123]

Kwame brought intangibles (rebounding and scoring).

Those are pretty tangible.

Kwame was never anything special as a scorer never over 11 ppg or 12 pts/36 min.

Hibbert's lowest scoring since his rookie year was 10.8 ppg(this year) which was the same as Kwame's best year. Hibbert blocks shots which is something Kwame never did at a significant rate. Hibbert also has an acceptable Assist/TO rate for a big, Kwame did not.

Kwame had some great games in his 2003 season where he put up 30-11. Sure, he wasn't consistently as good as everyone made him out to be but I think throughout the 2003-2005 season when he was the leader of the team (I think that was pre Gilbert-Arenas?) I remember there even being discussion of him being the future leader of the team.

[Zonkerbl]

"some great games"?

You mean one?

[verbal8]

Kwame brought intangibles (rebounding and scoring).

Those are pretty tangible.

Kwame was never anything special as a scorer never over 11 ppg or 12 pts/36 min.

Hibbert's lowest scoring since his rookie year was 10.8 ppg(this year) which was the same as Kwame's best year. Hibbert blocks shots which is something Kwame never did at a significant rate. Hibbert also has an acceptable Assist/TO rate for a big, Kwame did not.

Kwame had some great games in his 2003 season where he put up 30-11. Sure, he wasn't consistently as good as everyone made him out to be but I think throughout the 2003-2005 season when he was the leader of the team (I think that was pre Gilbert-Arenas?) I remember there even being discussion of him being the future leader of the team.

There have been a lot of players discussed as future leaders of the Wizards who haven't amounted to much. In 2003-4 he did look somewhat promising. However the next season he didn't play much or play very well.

He was mediocre when he was with the Lakers, but obviously a disappointment for what they gave up to get him. One strange thing about his career is he started out as a decent FT shooter, but has been terrible after his first 3 years.

[Nivek]

"some great games"?

You mean one?

Kwame had seven games of at least 20 & 10. That's, like, WAY more than one. Five of those came in a Wizards uniform, which is four more 20 & 10 games than Martell Webster has had for the Wizards. Heck, it's THREE more than Wall has had, and Wall's supposed to be a franchise player! It's exactly the same number of 20 & 10 games Nenê has had for Washington -- two more than Gortat.

I think that definitely proves that Kwame Brown was more of a franchise player than Wall, Nenê, Gortat or Webster.

[montestewart]

Kwame was never the leader of the Wizards. He was never a leader of the Wizards. I don't recall anyone ever seriously believing he ever would be a leader of the Wizards, other than in bored or frustrated reveries. Stick to reality. He had a few tantilizingly blockbuster games. Blatchemo had many more of those.

PS: the 2003 - 2005 season was way too long.

[Zonkerbl]

"some great games"?

You mean one?

Kwame had seven games of at least 20 & 10. That's, like, WAY more than one. Five of those came in a Wizards uniform, which is four more 20 & 10 games than Martell Webster has had for the Wizards. Heck, it's THREE more than Wall has had, and Wall's supposed to be a franchise player! It's exactly the same number of 20 & 10 games Nenê has had for Washington -- two more than Gortat.

I think that definitely proves that Kwame Brown was more of a franchise player than Wall, Nenê, Gortat or Webster.

Kwame had some great games in his 2003 season where he put up 30-11.

But he said 30 and 11. IIRC there was just the one game.

[Nivek]

Well, apparently 30 points and 11 rebounds in the same game was too lofty a peak for even Kwame to scale. He scored 30 once, but he had 19 boards in that game.

He had exactly 11 rebounds 14 times -- scoring 27, 23, 15, 13, 11, 10 (2x), 9, 7 (2x), 6, 5, 2 and 0 respectively.

He had 50 double-doubles in his career.

[Dat2U]

Kwame had back-to-back games of 30 & 19 and 27 & 11 during the 2nd half of that year and then shortly thereafter twisted his ankle badly and was basically done for the year.

Then he broke the same ankle playing pickup ball over the summer, got heavy, lost all of his face-up skill & ability (probably from not working on his game) and never was the same player again.

He went from a lightening quick face up big with a shaky but passable jumper to a back-to-basket type that struggled to establish position against smaller players and took forever to make a low post move.

[Zonkerbl]

And couldn't catch passes for crap.

It's not that he was a bad player, rather that he could have been SO MUCH BETTER. His mental weakness betrayed him in the end. Sad. Kind of a similar story playing out for Hibbert.

[Nivek]

With Hibbert, I think the theory I read about recently makes some sense: that he may be suffering from post-concussion syndrome. That shot he took to the chin from Lebron was nasty -- not intentional, but HARD. Hibbert tried to get up, but fell back down. And then went to the FT line and made one of the two FTs.

Here's what he did before getting hit, in the regular season after getting hit, and then in the playoffs.

Code: Select all

HIBBERT     efg     reb%    blk%    ortg    drtg
pre-Lbow    .461    13.0    5.8     102     97
After       .272    8.0     4.4     71      111
P-offs      .356    8.5     6.2     73      107


Not great before, but very good defense and kinda his usual on offense. The Pacers were already struggling by March 26, which is when Lebron nailed him, but... Hibbert's dropoff is HUGE from that point. Individual defensive rating isn't a great stat, but it's fine for comparing a guy to himself -- his role hasn't changed, but his performance definitely has.

According to various web sources I looked at, post-concussion symptoms can last three months to a year (or more). I don't know what the NBA's concussion protocol is, but I hope Hibbert has been checked out by a good neurologist.

[Zonkerbl]

My son got two concussions in gym and it basically screwed him up an entire semester. Interestingly enough, the suggested treatment was physical therapy and AVOIDING PHYSICAL ACTIVITY. And avoiding loud, brightly lit environments. So... playing lots of sports in loud arenas, bad idea.

I also read that Hibbert was engaged to be married and it was broken off (by him? by her? because she was cheating with a teammate? nobody knows) after the all star break.

Maybe he's just depressed.

[Nivek]

If he was depressed because of the breakup, post-concussion syndrome would likely exacerbate things. Symptoms include psychological stuff such as depressed mood, irritability and anxiety.

[Moooose]

Something is definitely wrong with Hibbert but Kwame Brown is just an unfair comparison for him. And I do not think it is a smart argument at all.

I think I have heard on the latest CBS podcast that Hibbert looks hurt, could be the previous reports of nerve damage in one of his arms wherein one of his arms loses strength.