DFerry needs to make a BOLD Move to improve our Talent

[Rip2137]

That's hindsight talking. If Pero had provided HALF his production from the regular season in this series, we win. I don't think you can realistically say it had something to do with Indiana's defense. I don't think Pero had a hand in his face the ENTIRE series.

The guy just had a spectacularly bad series, but that's not a realistic expectation from a guy with his championship pedigree to fold up THAT badly in the playoffs.

[Jamaaliver]

That's hindsight talking. If Pero had provided HALF his production from the regular season in this series, we win.

That seems a little unfair to place the blame for the series loss on Pero.

It also seems unfair to refer to it as hindsight when a few of us expressed reservations regarding Antic before the series started:

Just like Jamaal discrediting the mismatch that we have with Antic vs Hibbert

If our primary offensive plan is to simply park Antic at the 3-pt line in hopes of Pero carrying our offense, we're in for a rude awakening.

I don't believe Antic is that much of a difference maker.

I anticipate this is what we will see a great deal of against Indy. Thus negating the Antic advantage, but potentially working in Millsap's favor.

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1315144&start=40

Antic has performed admirably, indeed. But he is very much a limited player

ATLHAWKSFAN21 repeatedly cited that Pero avg 17 & 10 in the regular season against Hibbert and the Pacers. I repeatedly tried to warn him that Pero wouldn't even approach that type of production in the playoffs since opposing coaches were scheming against him. It's not hindsight if I saw it coming a mile away is it?

[Jamaaliver]

Every one wants a traditional Center but they fail to realize that traditional Centers aren't exactly needed anymore.

Offensive spacing is greater than what ever small increase on defense that a traditional center would bring.

The more I reflect on this statement, the more I believe it is folly.

Just looking in the post-Jordan era....the top teams have pretty consistently either had Lebron James, Shaq or a defensive Center. Particularly in the last decade.

Whether we look at the 'Elite 8' teams in the NBA playoffs this year (Gortat, Hibbert, Splitter, Lopez, Deandre Jordan, Perkins).

Or look at top teams from the recent past (Chandler in Dallas, Ben Wallace in Detroit, Jason Collins in New Jersey, Perkins again in Boston/OKC, Dwight Howard)

or look at the top 4 teams from this year or last season (Perkins, Hibbert, Marc Gasol).

The one constant is a big man in the paint capable of rebounding and post defense. I can't think of a single top team in recent years that depended on a 3-pt shooting Center.

Consistently, teams that go deep in the playoffs, win their Conferences and/or win NBA Titles lean on a defensive Center to defend and rebound.

I think this was a big reason why Pero did so poorly in the playoffs. Playing so far away from the basket, his impact was limited. Add in that his jumper wasn't falling and he was largely useless out there. Because you can't depend on your Center to only hit jumpers. The NBA has largely been built on great Centers impacting both sides of the floor; Russell, Wilt, Mikan, Parish, Kareem, Olajuwon, Robinson, Shaq, Mourning. And while recent Centers have been nowhere near as dominant, their impact can not be denied. particularly on the defensive end of the floor.

So saying that "spacing from a 3-pt shooting Center is more important than the rebounding/defense a traditional Center" seems to directly contradict everything we've seen over the last 60 years. Over the last decade. Over the last few seasons.

[ATLHawksfan21]

That's hindsight talking. If Pero had provided HALF his production from the regular season in this series, we win.

That seems a little unfair to place the blame for the series loss on Pero.

It also seems unfair to refer to it as hindsight when a few of us expressed reservations regarding Antic before the series started:

Just like Jamaal discrediting the mismatch that we have with Antic vs Hibbert

If our primary offensive plan is to simply park Antic at the 3-pt line in hopes of Pero carrying our offense, we're in for a rude awakening.

I don't believe Antic is that much of a difference maker.

I anticipate this is what we will see a great deal of against Indy. Thus negating the Antic advantage, but potentially working in Millsap's favor.

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1315144&start=40

Antic has performed admirably, indeed. But he is very much a limited player

ATLHAWKSFAN21 repeatedly cited that Pero avg 17 & 10 in the regular season against Hibbert and the Pacers. I repeatedly tried to warn him that Pero wouldn't even approach that type of production in the playoffs since opposing coaches were scheming against him. It's not hindsight if I saw it coming a mile away is it?

LOL. Just saw this comment. Are you really trying to say that Pero's no show in the playoffs was because of some scheme that Vogel ran to keep him covered? How can you say that with a straight face? Pero was wide open all day in every game and he just couldn't put it in the hoop. It had nothing to do with anything that the Pacers did. Hell, they were begging him to shoot by the end of the series. It's impossible to predict that a guy who shoots 33% from 3 for the year will shoot 12% for a series when all of his looks are WIDE OPEN.

[ATLHawksfan21]

Every one wants a traditional Center but they fail to realize that traditional Centers aren't exactly needed anymore.

Offensive spacing is greater than what ever small increase on defense that a traditional center would bring.

The more I reflect on this statement, the more I believe it is folly.

Just looking in the post-Jordan era....the top teams have pretty consistently either had Lebron James, Shaq or a defensive Center. Particularly in the last decade.

Whether we look at the 'Elite 8' teams in the NBA playoffs this year (Gortat, Hibbert, Splitter, Lopez, Deandre Jordan, Perkins).

Or look at top teams from the recent past (Chandler in Dallas, Ben Wallace in Detroit, Jason Collins in New Jersey, Perkins again in Boston/OKC, Dwight Howard)

or look at the top 4 teams from this year or last season (Perkins, Hibbert, Marc Gasol).

The one constant is a big man in the paint capable of rebounding and post defense. I can't think of a single top team in recent years that depended on a 3-pt shooting Center.

Consistently, teams that go deep in the playoffs, win their Conferences and/or win NBA Titles lean on a defensive Center to defend and rebound.

I think this was a big reason why Pero did so poorly in the playoffs. Playing so far away from the basket, his impact was limited. Add in that his jumper wasn't falling and he was largely useless out there. Because you can't depend on your Center to only hit jumpers. The NBA has largely been built on great Centers impacting both sides of the floor; Russell, Wilt, Mikan, Parish, Kareem, Olajuwon, Robinson, Shaq, Mourning. And while recent Centers have been nowhere near as dominant, their impact can not be denied. particularly on the defensive end of the floor.

So saying that "spacing from a 3-pt shooting Center is more important than the rebounding/defense a traditional Center" seems to directly contradict everything we've seen over the last 60 years. Over the last decade. Over the last few seasons.

Chris Bosh doesn't ring a bell? He plays Center for the Heat for the majority of the game and closes out games at Center and he is constantly camped out at the 3 pt line. He just hit a huge 3 at the end of the game the other night. Hell, OKC used to close games out with Ibaka or Collison but have used Adams this year. Neither one of them are some huge clog in the paint.

And now your using Jason Collins and OKC Kendrick Perkins as examples? I have no problem bringing in a guy equal to their level as it would only cost 2-3 million. I just don't think we should spend the majority of our cap on Center when we have much more glaring needs.

The fact is, the game is changing rapidly and OKC, Miami and analytics have spurned this change. Sure, you can certainly win with a traditional center but you can also be successful without one. We already have two all-stars in the paint so why not improve else where instead of trying to improve at a position that we are already above average at.

What center in the East scares you offensively other than Al Jefferson? There are some centers who can score decently like Gortat, Nene, Lopez (when healthy) but they aren't going to dominate a series on that end if you have smaller players or evenly sized players.

I still can't believe that you either think that Miami is not a top team or Bosh isn't a 3 pt shooting Center. 2 Titles in a row with 3 Finals appearances and they are probably about to 3 peat. Bosh is averaging 4 3 pt attempts per game in the playoffs.

[PandaKidd]

You dont need a traditional Center if you have a really good stretch 4 or big 3. Look at the teams who are left.......

Indiana- Paul George Combo SF or David West (stretch 4, good back to basket guy)
Miami- LBJ, nuff said. Bosh stretch C or 4
Spurs- Duncan
OKC- Durant

But, I think it can go either way. You can have dominant C and you have have role playing Centers. Depends on talent around them. If you 3 SHOOTERS then you can get away with a C who has no outside game. But if you have guys who have a hard time creating their own shot AND a Traditional C , thats not really a good thing. See Detroit last year.

They had 3 big men who cant shoot outside. Then they had Jennings as the resident chucker.

[Jamaaliver]

I still can't believe that you either think that Miami is not a top team or Bosh isn't a 3 pt shooting Center. 2 Titles in a row with 3 Finals appearances and they are probably about to 3 peat. Bosh is averaging 4 3 pt attempts per game in the playoffs.

Dude. Seriously. Come on.

The Heat are clearly an outlier. They don't win titles because of their Center. They win because they have possibly the single greatest player in the history of creation on their team...

But news flash, the teams that have given MIAMI their most struggles in the post-season....are teams with a defensive big in the middle.

San Antonio, Indiana, Dallas (with Tyson Chandler). Having a 'defensive big' is paramount to keeping Bosh, LBJ and Wade away from the hoop.

But history is littered with examples: the greatest teams either have Jordan, Lebron or a defensive BIG in the paint. Almost without exception.

NOTE: Bosh occasionally hitting jumpers from deep is NOT the same as Pero living at the 3-pt line for an entire series to provide 'spacing'.

SIDENOTE: I included Collins because he was the starting Center on two NBA Finals teams in the early 2000s when he was still useful. I included Perkins because he was the starting Center on 3 NBA Finals teams.

[ATLHawksfan21]

Bosh occasionally hitting jumpers? He attempts more than Pero does. Bosh is never in the lane and it's designed that way so Lebron has room to drive. A traditional center on Miami's team would just clog the paint and get in Lebron's way. Bosh had to change his game once he went to Miami to open things up for LeBron and D-Wade.

[Nathan2331]

This conversation makes no sense. We had Pero out there because we were left with no other options. The way he was shooting, if Ayon or Horford are healthy, he didn't see the floor.

[td00]

If Horford was out there, he wouldn't be behind the 3 point line.
No way we can expect Antic to fill a role for game winners. Its not why he was brought here.

We need Al and we need at least 2 more pieces to be serious: a significant FA and a draft pick that grows into the position.

How many roster slots change this year? 3? 4? I'd say no more than that.