Countdown to Ernie Grunfeld Firing (Part 2)

[montestewart]

The beauty of your argument is that every GM can say that they are better than their record - total employment argument.

I keep telling my wife that I'm better than my record, but she's such a hater.

[TGW]

Nice article by fatboy Loverro.

Those rows of empty seats posted all over social media at the Verizon Center Thursday night for Game 6 of the Eastern Conference semifinals between the hometown Washington Wizards and Indiana Pacers and the semi-comatose crowd criticized on the ESPN national broadcast were born four years ago — when Ted Leonsis took over the franchise.
Those empty seats and subdued fans were created when Leonsis took over the team after the death of Abe Pollin and, after more than 30 years of mediocrity and failure, did nothing to tell a damaged fan base that it would no longer be business as usual— that this would be a new era.
Instead, he immediately embraced the dysfunction that embarrassed an entire city with statements like these, just a few months after Gilbert Arenas was suspended for bringing guns into the locker room and after the team drafted John Wall number one.

“I think John Wall will add years to Gilbert’s career,” Leonsis told Jim Rome in a radio interview. “The best way to re-bond with the fan base is to come in happy and healthy and be a really, really highly functioning trusted teammate and be very, very coachable. And my bet is Gilbert can be all of that.”
It’s one thing to try to keep up a brave front while you are trying to get rid of a toxic player who destroyed the team. It’s another thing to insult your fans with that kind of nonsense.
Those empty seats were created in 2010, when Leonsis bought the team and did nothing to show fans that the man in charge, whose personnel decisions and coddling atmosphere set the stage for the Arenas debacle, would be leaving.
It was a chance to show fans that there would be a fresh start. Instead, Leonsis embraced general manager Ernie Grunfeld.
Of the general managers who finished in the top three in voting for the NBA Executive of the Year this season, one — Phoenix’s Ryan McDonough — was in the first year of his job after three seasons as an assistant general manager under Danny Ainge in Boston. Another — Neil Olshey of the Portland Trailblazers — was in the second year on the job.
Two options for a fresh start. Two options ignored.
Leonsis either failed to recognize or chose to ignore the damage done to NBA basketball in this town from the finals appearance in 1979 to the point he took over the team, punctuated by the Arenas embarrassment that brought the lowly franchise to an all-time low.
He paid the price for that Thursday night by having the hometown crowd called out on national television.
Now, of course, some people in this town are ready to pin a medal on Grunfeld, who took 11 years — 11 years, I said — to get a team this far, the sixth game of the Eastern Conference semifinals. He is getting credit for building a roster of players that performed well, and they did. It was fun group of players to root for — which again shows the damage done here by a hometown’s unwillingness to get behind this team in its biggest game in 35 years.
He was the same general manager that built a roster of embarrassment, re-signing Arenas, drafting Andray Blatche, Nick Young and Javale McGee, but now gets credit for getting rid of his players — his players, I said.
Was that Grunfeld’s decision?
Remember, after Flip Saunders was fired, he later said he told Leonsis — not Grunfeld — to get rid of the knuckleheads. In fact, in an interview with me on “The Sports Fix” on ESPN 980, Saunders said he wanted them out from the day he arrived in 2009. Yet when he was fired in 2012, all but Arenas still were on the roster.
“I was a proponent from day one of changing that whole atmosphere,” Saunders said. “Having been in situations where we had success in both Detroit and in Minnesota, we didn’t have that. … When I was there, I made my feelings pretty well known. And actually when I left — and had meetings with Ted Leonsis when I left — I pretty much said the same thing.”
So let’s stop with the revisionist history of Grunfeld cleaning house. He didn’t do so until Leonsis heard it himself from Saunders.
Grunfeld doesn’t appear to be in any danger of going anywhere now. Some people want to hold a parade for him down Pennsylvania Avenue after this season’s results. After all, if Leonsis didn’t fire him before based on results — 312-490 before this season — he’s not going to fire him now.
So the general manager who gave Andray Blatche a $35 million contract extension will continue to be in charge of this franchise. It was the sort of personnel decision that dwarfs anything supporters would claim he should get credit for.
Speaking of credit — and blame — a Washington Post columnist once wrote the following about Grunfeld: “More than ever, it’s on Grunfeld now.”
That was in November 2008.
That’s the kind of accountability that leads to empty seats and reluctant crowds when your team gets to sixth game of the Eastern Conference semifinals nearly six years later.


Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... z325xiGdWf
Follow us: @washtimes on Twitter

[Brenice]

Ted should have fired Ernie when he became owner. Where would the Wizards be now, nobody knows. Ted is unlikely to fired Ernie now. I guess Snyder is not the only Washington sports team owner that needs to sell his team.

[fishercob]

The Kevin Love sweepstakes shines a bright light on Ernie's failures. If we had a better asset base, we'd be have a better chance at Love -- obviously. Instead, we "cashed in" the #6 pick in the '11 draft for a backup point guard. We'll get nothing in return for the Singleton investment.

[closg00]

Nice article by fatboy Loverro.


Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... z325xiGdWf
Follow us: @washtimes on Twitter

Ah-man that article was sweet, sweet music in a time of revisionist history and Stockholm syndrome thankfulness for having reached the playoffs. Thanks for posting TGW.

Edit: Per the tap article, Love would prefer to go the Bulls or to GSW. When was the last time a major FA (or soon to be FA) let it be known that Washington was at the top of their destination wish-list? The prospects of Ernie Grunfeld being Wizard GM for-life is a huge disincentive for FA agents and their clients I would wager.

[closg00]

We can't seriously compete in the Love sweepstakes because 11 years of Grunfeld has left us w/o picks and sufficient trade-pieces.

[hands11]

That's awesome.

You'll got thrown a bone.

Gotta be tough watching the team make it to the 2nd round and win two games. That had to be a total nightmare

Anyway, so that article angle was the it was Flip who suggested getting ride of the knuckheads ( including Gil) so he gets credit ? Who hired Flip ?

And after Flip, it was Randy who said he wouldn't coach Blatche.

I would expect a coach to supply input about the players which is why you want your Owner/GM/Coach all on the same page. Unlike how it was when EFJ was the HC.

One things is for sure, things are looking better with Ted as owner vs Abe. That's what is most important.

I still won't be surprised if EG gets moved up a level and they bring in more front office help. They can build this out more. I see no problem in that. Or they keep EG another year and let it roll.

Interesting times waiting to hear what happens.

[closg00]

Now, of course, some people in this town are ready to pin a medal on Grunfeld, who took 11 years — 11 years, I said — to get a team this far, the sixth game of the Eastern Conference semifinals. He is getting credit for building a roster of players that performed well, and they did. It was fun group of players to root for — which again shows the damage done here by a hometown’s unwillingness to get behind this team in its biggest game in 35 years.
He was the same general manager that built a roster of embarrassment, re-signing Arenas, drafting Andray Blatche, Nick Young and Javale McGee, but now gets credit for getting rid of his players — his players, I said.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... z32Ce7oJhW

More on the angle of the article for interested board members. It's a shame this article wasn't in the Post.

[hands11]

Now, of course, some people in this town are ready to pin a medal on Grunfeld, who took 11 years — 11 years, I said — to get a team this far, the sixth game of the Eastern Conference semifinals. He is getting credit for building a roster of players that performed well, and they did. It was fun group of players to root for — which again shows the damage done here by a hometown’s unwillingness to get behind this team in its biggest game in 35 years.
He was the same general manager that built a roster of embarrassment, re-signing Arenas, drafting Andray Blatche, Nick Young and Javale McGee, but now gets credit for getting rid of his players — his players, I said.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... z32Ce7oJhW

More on the angle of the article for interested board members. It's a shame this article wasn't in the Post.

Right, except the Ted/EG record is looking much better than that.

Wall was drafted in 2010 and they did a total reboot. They had a PR nightmare/suspension of Gil's after Gungate and Abe's boat anchor Gil max contract.

4 years later. 2 Wins in the 2nd Round of the playoffs against the Easts #1 seed.

If 4 years ago you would have set that as your timeline for 2nd round playoff victors, most would be happy if they could reached those marks.

2 years of tear down and top lottery picks.
1 year of first playoffs and getting booted in the first round (injuries got then another lottery pick)
1 year of 2nd round playoffs and some wins. Hopefully not just 1 or a sweep.

They should have been in the playoffs last year except for injury (some here tried to point out they were much better then their record). Others way underestimated them.

This year mostly healthy, they made up that ground they didn't reach last year.

And now they are in the running for big name players like Love and Bosh because they have something where player would want to come to.

[FAH1223]

Right, expect the Ted/EG record is looking much better then that.

Wall drafted in 2010 and a total reboot and PR nightmare/suspension of Gil in Gungate and Abe's boat anchor Gil max contract.

4 years later. 2 Wins in the 2nd Round of the playoffs against the Easts #1 seed.

If 4 years ago you would have set that as your timeline for 2nd round playoff victors, most would be happy if they reached those marks.

2 years of tear down and top lottery picks.
1 year of first playoffs and getting booted in the first round (injuries got then another lottery pick)
1 year of 2nd round playoffs and some wins. Hopefully not just 1 or a sweep.

They should have been in the playoffs last year except for injury (some here tried to point out they were much better then their record).

This year mostly healthy, they made up that ground those didn't reach last year.

And now they are in the running for big name players like Love and Bosh because they have something they would want to come to.

Hands,

The Memphis front office is being torn down. Wouldn't having a Wallace/Joerger combo be an upgrade?

[TGW]

I didn't know they were giving out trophies and rings for second round bounces.

Some of you have the most pathetic expectations of this team...but it's expected with Ernie Grunfeld as the GM.

[closg00]

Watching Kawhi Leonard starting for the Spurs, nice!

[queridiculo]

To be fair, I'm sure the empty seats had more to do with Ted Leonsis greed than Grunfeld's miserable job as a GM.

It's nice to see somebody shine the light of Grunfeld's awful tenure with the Wizards, but it would have been nice to acknowledge all those fans that supported this team with their hard earned cash through Ernie's disaster of a rebuild, only to watch them be raked over the coals after the first sign of life by this moribund franchise.

Instead of getting this arena rocking and rewarding the loyal fans and season ticket holders with pricing that wasn't tantamount to being held up in a china town alley, Teddie's advanced money sucking algorithm made its appearance the second line shone out of the orifice from whence Grunfeld pulled this season.

The level of greed and contempt Leonsis has shown for his fan base during this playoff run is sickening to me.

[hands11]

Right, expect the Ted/EG record is looking much better then that.

Wall drafted in 2010 and a total reboot and PR nightmare/suspension of Gil in Gungate and Abe's boat anchor Gil max contract.

4 years later. 2 Wins in the 2nd Round of the playoffs against the Easts #1 seed.

If 4 years ago you would have set that as your timeline for 2nd round playoff victors, most would be happy if they reached those marks.

2 years of tear down and top lottery picks.
1 year of first playoffs and getting booted in the first round (injuries got then another lottery pick)
1 year of 2nd round playoffs and some wins. Hopefully not just 1 or a sweep.

They should have been in the playoffs last year except for injury (some here tried to point out they were much better then their record).

This year mostly healthy, they made up that ground those didn't reach last year.

And now they are in the running for big name players like Love and Bosh because they have something they would want to come to.

Hands,

The Memphis front office is being torn down. Wouldn't having a Wallace/Joerger combo be an upgrade?

Why is an objective stance some how viewed here as more then that?

I just explained what happened since Ted.

Yes there have been mistakes. And lots that some thought were mistakes ended up not being that way. It did work out. They did reach more then medium/high goals in that time frame. And they do still have options.

Honestly, I don't know how good this front office can be. Together, Ted/EG has done pretty well.

Are there more proven front office people? Absolutely. I have always said that. There are more proven track records. And for the record, I thought two years of EG was fine to get them to a point where they would have better options. Thats where they are now.

Will Ted change now ? I honestly don't know. EG may stay another year. He may move up.

But saying Ted/EG together has sucked ? No, they have not. I think that much is clear.

[Silvie Lysandra]

Hands. Seriously.

SHUT UP.

Your smug, arrogant "I told ya so" attitude is literally pathetic, especially because you've been wrong about almost everything for the last, what, 8 years? I don't have thousands of posts but I've been reading the board since 2005, and I can't think of a single thing you've ever said that's ever been insightful, predictive, or anything more than a mismash of buzzwords. You defended Blatche and McGee at the time, just like all the other Ernie sycophants. You defended Ernie's draft picks. You put forward the asinine "It was Abe on his deathbed who traded #6 for Foye and Miller, not EG".

People throw facts and evidence at you, like turning a #6 pick into Andre Miller, or bombing every draft pick that wasn't top 3, or having one of the worst records over his tenure in history, and it doesn't matter. Tbh, I actually think you know very little about basketball, but you just say stuff that's the opposite of what everyone can see in order to be contrarian. That's why you're latching onto this mirage of a playoff team (newsflash: this team would be an 8th seed or worse in even an average East) because you get to be right for once, and reality and objectivity don't matter when hands11 gets to be right.

Here's the thing, Vinny Ceratto made the playoffs a few times for **** sake. Does that make Vinny a good GM? But Ernie made it to the second round, apparently we get a trophy for that. And got there because he went all in on veterans in order to maintain job security. Because ya know, it's not like Ernie is any good at drafting people outside the top of the draft. Getting to the 2nd round in a weak East is like comfort food - it makes you feel good but it doesn't fix the underlying issues. We're essentially reliant on John Wall and or Bradley Beal becoming first option superstars in order to be contenders, because due to Ernie's brilliant GMing, we have almost no options for further improvement.

You're a more articulate version of WizarDynasty, imo. You think you're smarter than everyone and try to cobble together "insight" but you don't have the grasp of the subject to produce anything useful.

[Brenice]

You mad?

Did you read and understand what Hands is saying? You want to ignore the difference between the Abe/Ernie combination and the Ted/Ernie combination. Before Abe passed(R.I.P) you had Abe/Jordan, Abe/Unseld, Abe/Nash, and Abe/Ferry that produced decades of futile, non playoff advancement. The one time there was a playoff victory, however small since 1979 was the Abe/Ernie combination when the Big 3 beat Chicago and then lost to the Heat. Everybody complained about the common denominator, frugal if not cheap Abe.

Since Ted took over, Ernie has has torn down the house that Abe/Ernie built and gotten the Wizards into the 2nd round again. The team is professional and not an embarrassment. It's getting national love. The reason it was underrated nationally was not because of its record, not 10 years of futility under Ernie, but because of 30 years of futility under Abe.

As for Ernie's misses under Abe, particularly Pech, Nick, and JaVale, outside of missing on Pech, who would YOU have picked instead of Nick and JaVale? I'll even let you pick in hindsight.

Selling 2nd round picks were Abe moves. Gil was resigned as damaged goods. Trading the #6 pick for Foye/Miller was an Abe/Ernie move with playoff advancement aspirations/insurance for the Gil injury as they did not want to rely on a rookie as Abe loaded up for one last run.

During the Ted/Ernie era you have Seraphin is disappointing but the physique and skill are there for where he was drafted. Booker was a later first round pick. He missed on Vesely. He missed badly on Vesely. He resigned Blatche. He signed and cut Maynor. He also traded for Gortat to save this season costing a non-lottery draft pick. Ariza and Gortat want to return and can be resigned. Now who thinks that if everybody comes back to both teams, the Wizards would lose a rematch with the Pacers next year? I don't. That's why saving this year was critical in the development of Wall and Beal.

Hell, we should finally get some respect from the refs because of the team Ted/Ernie put on the floor.

That analysis does not make me an Ernie fan or an Ernie hater. I am Ernie neutral, probably like Ted...for the moment.

[montestewart]

Did you read and understand what Hands is saying?

HOF!

[closg00]

Did you read and understand what Hands is saying?

HOF!

We are all family here, but that was hilarious

[FAH1223]

You mad?

Did you read and understand what Hands is saying? You want to ignore the difference between the Abe/Ernie combination and the Ted/Ernie combination. Before Abe passed(R.I.P) you had Abe/Jordan, Abe/Unseld, Abe/Nash, and Abe/Ferry that produced decades of futile, non playoff advancement. The one time there was a playoff victory, however small since 1979 was the Abe/Ernie combination when the Big 3 beat Chicago and then lost to the Heat. Everybody complained about the common denominator, frugal if not cheap Abe.

Since Ted took over, Ernie has has torn down the house that Abe/Ernie built and gotten the Wizards into the 2nd round again. The team is professional and not an embarrassment. It's getting national love. The reason it was underrated nationally was not because of its record, not 10 years of futility under Ernie, but because of 30 years of futility under Abe.

As for Ernie's misses under Abe, particularly Pech, Nick, and JaVale, outside of missing on Pech, who would YOU have picked instead of Nick and JaVale? I'll even let you pick in hindsight.

Selling 2nd round picks were Abe moves. Gil was resigned as damaged goods. Trading the #6 pick for Foye/Miller was an Abe/Ernie move with playoff advancement aspirations/insurance for the Gil injury as they did not want to rely on a rookie as Abe loaded up for one last run.

During the Ted/Ernie era you have Seraphin is disappointing but the physique and skill are there for where he was drafted. Booker was a later first round pick. He missed on Vesely. He missed badly on Vesely. He resigned Blatche. He signed and cut Maynor. He also traded for Gortat to save this season costing a non-lottery draft pick. Ariza and Gortat want to return and can be resigned. Now who thinks that if everybody comes back to both teams, the Wizards would lose a rematch with the Pacers next year? I don't. That's why saving this year was critical in the development of Wall and Beal.

Hell, we should finally get some respect from the refs because of the team Ted/Ernie put on the floor.

That analysis does not make me an Ernie fan or an Ernie hater. I am Ernie neutral, probably like Ted...for the moment.

Blaming Abe is such a cop out. The man's been dead for 4.5 years.

Grunfeld is still the one making horrible picks, bad trades, mismanaging assets.

You can't give credit for a GM making solid moves when all he is doing is just cleaning up the mess he created in the first place.

Ted Leonsis is also delusional if he thinks he can win a championship with this front office.

[Brenice]

Blaming Abe is such a cop out. The man's been dead for 4.5 years.

Grunfeld is still the one making horrible picks, bad trades, mismanaging assets.

You can't give credit for a GM making solid moves when all he is doing is just cleaning up the mess he created in the first place.

Ted Leonsis is also delusional if he thinks he can win a championship with this front office.

I hope you aren't too miserable next year as the team Ernie cleaned up is being competitive. I'm not saying that Ted not fire Ernie. That should have happened already. What I am saying is...get over it. It's Ted's team. I enjoyed last year, allof it. Better than any year that I can remember since I've been a Washington fan. I'm looking forward to next year, Ernie or not. Y'all can keep sulking over spilled milk,