Knicks-Related Trade "THOUGHTS" Thread - Part Deux

[melo mvp 15]

Greg Monroe SCREAMS the triangle. Although, I don't think he's worth MAX money (but neither are a lot of players who get it, nothing against Monroe).

We don't have the money to sign him or the pieces to s&t for him and I'm pretty sure we can't s&t for him because we are a tax team.

You are right, but at the same time there's the off-chance that he doesn't get the big contract he's looking for this summer and/or he think Detroit will match whatever he's offered (and if he wants to leave), that he takes the QO to become an UFA in 2015. Then we could pursue him.

There have also been suggestions about trading Tyson for pure capspace (i.e. a TPE), then that would lower us under the threshold and give us a way to acquire him. Although I haven't done the math myself and I personally don't think it'd lower us enough to allow us to use the whole TPE in a sign and trade. It's not a completely bad idea to jump at free agency now instead of next summer because then we could explore trading our other expirings for players like Eric Gordon or Josh Smith.

[ORANGEandBLUE]

I think it's possible to acquire a big enough TPE to s/t for Monroe. But I don't know if it's a good idea to build around around a big who can't shoot or protect the rim. I would much rather wait a year and make the same offer to Milsap.

[GONYK]

Greg Monroe SCREAMS the triangle. Although, I don't think he's worth MAX money (but neither are a lot of players who get it, nothing against Monroe).

We don't have the money to sign him or the pieces to s&t for him and I'm pretty sure we can't s&t for him because we are a tax team.

You are right, but at the same time there's the off-chance that he doesn't get the big contract he's looking for this summer and/or he think Detroit will match whatever he's offered (and if he wants to leave), that he takes the QO to become an UFA in 2015. Then we could pursue him.

There have also been suggestions about trading Tyson for pure capspace (i.e. a TPE), then that would lower us under the threshold and give us a way to acquire him. Although I haven't done the math myself and I personally don't think it'd lower us enough to allow us to use the whole TPE in a sign and trade. It's not a completely bad idea to jump at free agency now instead of next summer because then we could explore trading our other expirings for players like Eric Gordon or Josh Smith.

If those are the players to pursue, then it is a downright awful idea.

Josh Smith is right up there for the worst contract in the league. We shouldn't be trading expirings for awful players

[Boarder Patrol]

I think it's possible to acquire a big enough TPE to s/t for Monroe. But I don't know if it's a good idea to build around around a big who can't shoot or protect the rim. I would much rather wait a year and make the same offer to Milsap.

Could you lay out a reasonable scenario where we could acquire Monroe?

[ORANGEandBLUE]

Could you lay out a reasonable scenario where we could acquire Monroe?

Sure.

Dallas gets: Tyson Chandler
Charlotte gets: JR Smith, Brandan Wright, #34 pick
NY gets: Dallas' 2015 first, $20m TPE

Detroit sign-and-trades Monroe to NY for Dallas 2015 first and TPE.

I'm not totally sure that this would work under the CBA; depends on how how the apron is this year, and whether you are allowed to exceed the apron in the process of using a s/t.

[melo mvp 15]

Could you lay out a reasonable scenario where we could acquire Monroe?

Sure.

Dallas gets: Tyson Chandler
Charlotte gets: JR Smith, Brandan Wright, #34 pick
NY gets: Dallas' 2015 first, $20m TPE

Detroit sign-and-trades Monroe to NY for Dallas 2015 first and TPE.

I'm not totally sure that this would work under the CBA; depends on how how the apron is this year, and whether you are allowed to exceed the apron in the process of using a s/t.

That creates a $14 mil TPE and a $6 mil TPE actually, which obviously can't be combined. But the $14 mil should be enough for Monroe. But honestly if we went for 2014 free agency, I think I'd look at spending the money a little wiser than MAX on Monroe. Something like (per year basis): $10 mil for Lowry, $6 mil for Gasol, $4 mil for Shawn Marion (obviously all multiyear deals) OR $10 mil on Lowry, $10 mil on Deng (just some examples).

And I'm not 100% clear on the #s now, but in addition to getting the TPE big enough, we'd also have to move enough under the tax apron to do the sign and trades. Idk if moving Tyson and JR does it enough.

[melo mvp 15]

We don't have the money to sign him or the pieces to s&t for him and I'm pretty sure we can't s&t for him because we are a tax team.

You are right, but at the same time there's the off-chance that he doesn't get the big contract he's looking for this summer and/or he think Detroit will match whatever he's offered (and if he wants to leave), that he takes the QO to become an UFA in 2015. Then we could pursue him.

There have also been suggestions about trading Tyson for pure capspace (i.e. a TPE), then that would lower us under the threshold and give us a way to acquire him. Although I haven't done the math myself and I personally don't think it'd lower us enough to allow us to use the whole TPE in a sign and trade. It's not a completely bad idea to jump at free agency now instead of next summer because then we could explore trading our other expirings for players like Eric Gordon or Josh Smith.

If those are the players to pursue, then it is a downright awful idea.

Josh Smith is right up there for the worst contract in the league. We shouldn't be trading expirings for awful players

I don't think you read it correctly. It wouldn't be sacrificing 2015 FA for just Josh Smith... it'd be giving up 2015 FA for Lowry or Monroe AND a player like Smith or Gordon. Or we could go for a FA like Lowry on Monroe in 2014 for like $10-12 and then have another ~$16 mil (if we stretch JR and Ray) to spend in 2015.

[newyorker4ever]

DWill wants out of Brooklyn

No thank you

[spree8]

Greg Monroe SCREAMS the triangle. Although, I don't think he's worth MAX money (but neither are a lot of players who get it, nothing against Monroe).

We don't have the money to sign him or the pieces to s&t for him and I'm pretty sure we can't s&t for him because we are a tax team.

You are right, but at the same time there's the off-chance that he doesn't get the big contract he's looking for this summer and/or he think Detroit will match whatever he's offered (and if he wants to leave), that he takes the QO to become an UFA in 2015. Then we could pursue him.

There have also been suggestions about trading Tyson for pure capspace (i.e. a TPE), then that would lower us under the threshold and give us a way to acquire him. Although I haven't done the math myself and I personally don't think it'd lower us enough to allow us to use the whole TPE in a sign and trade. It's not a completely bad idea to jump at free agency now instead of next summer because then we could explore trading our other expirings for players like Eric Gordon or Josh Smith.

Ah, good point...I know we're at like 90 mil and shedding Tyson gets us literally like a mil of two under the tax...so a s&t is possible I believe. I'm not sure how much exactly a max deal would start at for Monroe, but since it's his first I think it's in the 13-15 mil range so the TPE (from a hypothetical Tyson trade) could possibly be enough. Of course we'd have to find a suitor for Chandler (maybe Dallas) and get Detroit to agree to it...though I'm sure they'd probably want a little more compensation in the way of picks and such.

Him taking a QO and signing elsewhere next year is possible too, but unlikely imo. I think both scenarios are to be honest, but again both possible.

[suicidedeuce]

Could you lay out a reasonable scenario where we could acquire Monroe?

Sure.

Dallas gets: Tyson Chandler
Charlotte gets: JR Smith, Brandan Wright, #34 pick
NY gets: Dallas' 2015 first, $20m TPE

Detroit sign-and-trades Monroe to NY for Dallas 2015 first and TPE.

I'm not totally sure that this would work under the CBA; depends on how how the apron is this year, and whether you are allowed to exceed the apron in the process of using a s/t.

If a team matches an offer sheet and retains its free agent, then for one year they cannot trade him without his consent, and during that year cannot trade him at all to the team that signed him to the offer sheet. They also can't trade the player in a sign-and-trade transaction

[melo mvp 15]

Could you lay out a reasonable scenario where we could acquire Monroe?

Sure.

Dallas gets: Tyson Chandler
Charlotte gets: JR Smith, Brandan Wright, #34 pick
NY gets: Dallas' 2015 first, $20m TPE

Detroit sign-and-trades Monroe to NY for Dallas 2015 first and TPE.

I'm not totally sure that this would work under the CBA; depends on how how the apron is this year, and whether you are allowed to exceed the apron in the process of using a s/t.

If a team matches an offer sheet and retains its free agent, then for one year they cannot trade him without his consent, and during that year cannot trade him at all to the team that signed him to the offer sheet. They also can't trade the player in a sign-and-trade transaction

That's easily worked around by making them separate deals. Teams do this A LOT in sign and trades.

1st trade: Get TPE (and pick?) for Tyson
2nd trade: Use new TPE for sign and trade

[suicidedeuce]

Sure.

Dallas gets: Tyson Chandler
Charlotte gets: JR Smith, Brandan Wright, #34 pick
NY gets: Dallas' 2015 first, $20m TPE

Detroit sign-and-trades Monroe to NY for Dallas 2015 first and TPE.

I'm not totally sure that this would work under the CBA; depends on how how the apron is this year, and whether you are allowed to exceed the apron in the process of using a s/t.

If a team matches an offer sheet and retains its free agent, then for one year they cannot trade him without his consent, and during that year cannot trade him at all to the team that signed him to the offer sheet. They also can't trade the player in a sign-and-trade transaction

That's easily worked around by making them separate deals. Teams do this A LOT in sign and trades.

1st trade: Get TPE (and pick?) for Tyson
2nd trade: Use new TPE for sign and trade

I think you missed the point.

Monroe is a restricted free agent. Detroit can't trade him in a sign and trade.

[melo mvp 15]

That's easily worked around by making them separate deals. Teams do this A LOT in sign and trades.

1st trade: Get TPE (and pick?) for Tyson
2nd trade: Use new TPE for sign and trade

I think you missed the point.

Monroe is a restricted free agent. Detroit can't trade him in a sign and trade.

You're misinterpreting it. That rule simply states that if another team signed Monroe to an offer sheet, Detroit couldn't go and trade him to that team (thus getting something back instead of losing him for nothing or keeping him if they don't want) or any other team (until you can trade recent FAs in December). And there's the added restriction that Detroit couldn't trade Monroe to that same team that gave him the offer sheet they matched for an entire (to keep teams from being like "well we'll trade him to you in 3 months for something, but we won't let him walk"). Trust me, I know this.

The perfect example is Eric Gordon. He was clear about wanting to leave New Orleans, but they didn't want to lose him for nothing (as we was the main piece they got for CP3). Phoenix wanted him and the only way they could've guaranteed him coming was if they agreed to a sign and trade with New Orleans (and obviously Eric Gordon agreed), but they couldn't work out a trade so they just signed him to an offer sheet. So when he got the offer sheet from Phoenix, there was no chance of any sign and trade occurring... he was either in Phoenix as a pure free agent signing (no sign and trade, NO can't get anything back) or in New Orleans.

Restricted FAs can be signed and traded, it just need to be agreed upon by all three parties (like with any FA, the player and each team) BEFORE any offer sheet is signed. Now whether the Knicks could sign and trade for someone after clearing Tyson off the books? Idk, we get enough off the cap do so (even with a TPE).

[suicidedeuce]

You're misinterpreting it.

I'm not.

A restricted free agent cannot be sign and traded. He can only sign with his former team and then after agree to be traded to a team of his choice. But there can be no contractually arranged trade between the team.

In other words, the team resigning him would be under no contractual obligation to complete the trade. Nor would the team he want to go to.

At best, such an arrangement would have to be agreed upon in good father.

This is why, to the best of my knowledge, NO trade like this has EVER occurred.

Restricted FAs can be signed and traded, it just need to be agreed upon by all three parties (like with any FA, the player and each team) BEFORE any offer sheet is signed.

Cite a time a transaction like that has ever occurred?

[suicidedeuce]

Sorry

[moocow007]

I think it's possible to acquire a big enough TPE to s/t for Monroe. But I don't know if it's a good idea to build around around a big who can't shoot or protect the rim. I would much rather wait a year and make the same offer to Milsap.

Monroe with Anthony? No thanks. Monroe as the centerpiece of a rebuild? No thanks. Not a fan of the guy at all. He's just terrible (not just average, terrible) defensively and isn't a presence on the offense when you need someone to close things out. His reaction time is like a split second slower than most guys that you would think can one of your lead guys should have. Was not a fan, even back when he was with Georgetown.

[melo mvp 15]

You're misinterpreting it.

I'm not.

A restricted free agent cannot be sign and traded. He can only sign with his former team and then after agree to be traded to a team of his choice. But there can be no contractually arranged trade between the team.

In other words, the team resigning him would be under no contractual obligation to complete the trade. Nor would the team he want to go to.

At best, such an arrangement would have to be agreed upon in good father.

This is why, to the best of my knowledge, NO trade like this has EVER occurred.

Restricted FAs can be signed and traded, it just need to be agreed upon by all three parties (like with any FA, the player and each team) BEFORE any offer sheet is signed.

Cite a time a transaction like that has ever occurred?

Ryan Anderson was a restricted free agent when he was signed and traded to New Orleans.
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/81413 ... ources-say

[DowNY]

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=qh8vdnc

Knicks acquire:
Mike Conley
Tayshaun Prince
Kendrick Perkins

Thunder acquire:
Tyson Chandler
Zach Randolph
Iman Shumpert
Raymond Felton

Grizzlies acquire:
Serge Ibaka
Reggie Jackson
Jeremy Lamb
JR Smith
Hasheem Thabeet
Perry Jones III

This allows the Knicks to have Mike Conley, Timmy Jr, & Melo to be on the team then able to sign Love or Aldridge, along with a Marc Gasol (who would favor NY with Conley here).

BY 2015

Mike Conley
Tim Hardaway Jr.
Carmelo Anthony
Lamarcus Aldridge
Marc Gasol

[DowNY]

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=pjtyq7n

Knicks acquire:
Nicolas Batum
Mo Williams
Anthony Morrow

Portland Blazers acquire:
Eric Gordon
Harrison Barnes

Warriors acquire:
Tyson Chandler
Iman Shumpert
Raymond Felton

Pelicans acquire:
Andrew Bogut
JR Smith

Knicks flip Felton & JR's contracts for Batum, who fits nicely in the triangle with Melo. Could still sign Rondo/Gasol to compliment Timmy/Batum/Melo in 2015 FA.

Blazers can move Matthews to 6th man. Harrison could start at SF & vastly improve with Lillard, Gordon & LMA in the line-up.

Warriors obtain bench help with Felton & Shump, while flipping Bogut's contract for Tyson & his expiring. Saves money.

Pelicans acquire a Center to put next to Anthony Davis. JR can do 85% of what Eric Gordon do for much cheaper & can start.

[melo mvp 15]

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=qh8vdnc

Knicks acquire:
Mike Conley
Tayshaun Prince
Kendrick Perkins

Thunder acquire:
Tyson Chandler
Zach Randolph
Iman Shumpert
Raymond Felton

Grizzlies acquire:
Serge Ibaka
Reggie Jackson
Jeremy Lamb
JR Smith
Hasheem Thabeet
Perry Jones III

This allows the Knicks to have Mike Conley, Timmy Jr, & Melo to be on the team then able to sign Love or Aldridge, along with a Marc Gasol (who would favor NY with Conley here).

BY 2015

Mike Conley
Tim Hardaway Jr.
Carmelo Anthony
Lamarcus Aldridge
Marc Gasol

Awful for OKC. Not only could Randolph and Chandler easily walk, but I doubt OKC would want to get older and sacrifice their future for one season. That would be if it was Ibaka. But man you had them give up Williams, Lamb, and Jones III too. Brutal.