Kevin Love - Every team's best offer

[mysticbb]

I'm pretty sure Boston is going to full court press Kevin Love now.

#6 + #17 + Sullinger/Olynyk + Bass + Future 1st for Kevin Love + extension

EDIT: For the record, I'd be willing to trade anyone on the team sans Rondo in a Love trade. I'm not sure I'd add more picks though.

That is the issue here, and the reason why the Celtics will be very reluctant to throw the kitchen sink at the Timberwolves for Love. Love will not sign an extension. There is about zero chance that this will happen. Love would get less money and less years with that extension than when he simply signs a deal as FA (no matter whether that is with or without Bird rights).

A team trading for Love is trading for Love on a 1yr contract, not an extended Love. We will see a similar situation as we saw with the Lakers and Howard. And I'm sure, if the Celtics aren't making the playoffs next season, Love will be gone. Love can stay with the Timberwolves and has a higher chance to compete than with the Celtics after they have traded for him.

[GopherIt!]

1. That is terrible management, that would get Flip Saunders fired real quickly for it. Thankfully GMs are more professional than that.

2. You got the 6th overall pick in the 2009 draft in that deal + Al Jefferson. May not have worked out, but those were some damn good assets.

This team already defines terrible management. You want to see a fan revolt and a gm get fired real quick? The Wolves are going to get screwed but there's not a chance in hell it's going to be Boston. Its called the ghost of KG and the conspiracy surrounding that trade. And if you don't think McHale/Taylor were/are above collusion/corruption you need to do some homework. It's time for Glen Taylor to take another team's bribe.

MN got the #28 in 2009, one of their picks returned (from the awful Marcus Banks trade) and a poo poo platter of players who couldn't hold KG's jock strap. It was a horrible trade with horrible consequenses this organization has not and may not ever fully recover from.

[bs_and_cs]

1. That is terrible management, that would get Flip Saunders fired real quickly for it. Thankfully GMs are more professional than that.

2. You got the 6th overall pick in the 2009 draft in that deal + Al Jefferson. May not have worked out, but those were some damn good assets.

You don't understand the Minnesota fan perspective. The KG trade was devastating. He was the face of the franchise. He was by far the best thing to happen in 18 years of Wolves basketball. He was hugely popular and wanted to retire a Wolf. The fans were absolutely opposed to trading him.

The Wolves have been a complete train wreck since. Many fans left and have not come back. Many still supect McHale of collusion for helping his buddy Ainge more than he helped MN.

We got the #28 in 2009, one of our picks returned (from the awful Marcus Banks trade) and a poo poo platter of players who couldn't hold KG's jock strap. It was a horrible trade with horrible consequenses this organization has not and may not ever recover from.

I understand things quite well. It was the bad turning point for your franchise.

That said, the fans don't run the team luckily, for even those fans.

[bs_and_cs]

I'm pretty sure Boston is going to full court press Kevin Love now.

#6 + #17 + Sullinger/Olynyk + Bass + Future 1st for Kevin Love + extension

EDIT: For the record, I'd be willing to trade anyone on the team sans Rondo in a Love trade. I'm not sure I'd add more picks though.

That is the issue here, and the reason why the Celtics will be very reluctant to throw the kitchen sink at the Timberwolves for Love. Love will not sign an extension. There is about zero chance that this will happen. Love would get less money and less years with that extension than when he simply signs a deal as FA (no matter whether that is with or without Bird rights).

A team trading for Love is trading for Love on a 1yr contract, not an extended Love. We will see a similar situation as we saw with the Lakers and Howard. And I'm sure, if the Celtics aren't making the playoffs next season, Love will be gone. Love can stay with the Timberwolves and has a higher chance to compete than with the Celtics after they have traded for him.

Everyone knows how the CBA works.

Teams will talk to Love and find out if he will sign an extension before they make a trade. They will then wait til the end of the year, and sign said extension.

[mysticbb]

Teams will talk to Love and find out if he will sign an extension before they make a trade. They will then wait til the end of the year, and sign said extension.

There is about zero chance that Love signs an extension. It is just not going to happen. Love will be a FA in 2015, as much as Howard was FA in 2013. A trade now for Love is for him on a 1yr contract. Not for an extended Love. Love would just give up way too much money, if he agrees to an extension. And every team will look at the Howard situation and will see that Howard left the Lakers! Keep that in mind.

In case of Love, if the team is not the Lakers, it should be better have a competitive team next season, if they want a chance to keep Love after 2015. If Love gets traded to the Celtics while they give up a lot of assets, and Love finds himself in a worse situation than on the Timberwolves, he will be gone.

[jowglenn]

Cody Zeller, #9, #24?

[bs_and_cs]

Teams will talk to Love and find out if he will sign an extension before they make a trade. They will then wait til the end of the year, and sign said extension.

There is about zero chance that Love signs an extension. It is just not going to happen. Love will be a FA in 2015, as much as Howard was FA in 2013. A trade now for Love is for him on a 1yr contract. Not for an extended Love. Love would just give up way too much money, if he agrees to an extension. And every team will look at the Howard situation and will see that Howard left the Lakers! Keep that in mind.

In case of Love, if the team is not the Lakers, it should be better have a competitive team next season, if they want a chance to keep Love after 2015. If Love gets traded to the Celtics while they give up a lot of assets, and Love finds himself in a worse situation than on the Timberwolves, he will be gone.

Love makes more money if he signs with the team that trades for him. Just an FYI.

[mysticbb]

Love makes more money if he signs with the team that trades for him. Just an FYI.

That is not in disagreement with what I wrote. But Love wants to accomplish three things: Being able to choose freely who he signs with! Being able to sign with a competitive team! And being able to get more money than an extension would give! The same reasons as Howard or Paul had to choose free agency over extension when traded. Paul stayed with the Clippers, because they were competitive and he got the money, Howard left the Lakers, because he saw the Rockets as more competitive; he picked less money over competition. Love made similar statements, and he will also likely choose to leave a team, which is not competitive.

Signing an extension now would compromise any option for him. Not going to happen. And that will influence the amount of assets a team is willing to give up for Love. How desperate are the Celtics?

[bs_and_cs]

Love makes more money if he signs with the team that trades for him. Just an FYI.

That is not in disagreement with what I wrote. But Love wants to accomplish three things: Being able to choose freely who he signs with! Being able to sign with a competitive team! And being able to get more money than an extension would give! The same reasons as Howard or Paul had to choose free agency over extension when traded. Paul stayed with the Clippers, because they were competitive and he got the money, Howard left the Lakers, because he saw the Rockets as more competitive; he picked less money over competition. Love made similar statements, and he will also likely choose to leave a team, which is not competitive.

Signing an extension now would compromise any option for him. Not going to happen. And that will influence the amount of assets a team is willing to give up for Love. How desperate are the Celtics?

Hmmm....

A source close to Love told Welsh that the three-time All-star, "wants to play for an organization that's going to be a winning organization; not necessarily I have to go to a championship team now, but a team that's going to be built to move in that direction. Maybe it'll take a couple years. That's OK. But he needs a change from Minnesota."

http://www.csnne.com/blog/celtics-talk/ ... me-celtics

Not every player in the NBA wants to be like Dwight Howard. And as we have seen with past trades, players can have their pick of destination just by telling people they will only re-sign with specific clubs.

[mysticbb]

A source close to Love told Welsh that the three-time All-star, "wants to play for an organization that's going to be a winning organization; not necessarily I have to go to a championship team now, but a team that's going to be built to move in that direction. Maybe it'll take a couple years. That's OK. But he needs a change from Minnesota."

http://www.csnne.com/blog/celtics-talk/ ... me-celtics

So, if the Celtics can't show that improvement while giving up the necessary future assets to improve, how should Love be convinced to stay? How should the Celtics have the direction towards being a championship contender?

Not every player in the NBA wants to be like Dwight Howard. And as we have seen with past trades, players can have their pick of destination just by telling people they will only re-sign with specific clubs.

Howard had picked the Lakers as one of the teams he would be willing to sign longterm. Remember. Love saying now he would be willing to stay with the Celtics means nothing, if the Celtics aren't showing that they are able to get the necessary help to improve as a team. That is essentially the same as for Howard. Having "respect for the history of the Celtics" is a pretty meaningless statement in such a case. But well, if the Celtics want to take that risk, they will make a strong offer. Not quite sure whether that would be the reasonable course of action or rather be a desperate move ...

[The Rondo Show]

Love makes more money if he signs with the team that trades for him. Just an FYI.

That is not in disagreement with what I wrote. But Love wants to accomplish three things: Being able to choose freely who he signs with! Being able to sign with a competitive team! And being able to get more money than an extension would give! The same reasons as Howard or Paul had to choose free agency over extension when traded. Paul stayed with the Clippers, because they were competitive and he got the money, Howard left the Lakers, because he saw the Rockets as more competitive; he picked less money over competition. Love made similar statements, and he will also likely choose to leave a team, which is not competitive.

Signing an extension now would compromise any option for him. Not going to happen. And that will influence the amount of assets a team is willing to give up for Love. How desperate are the Celtics?

For Kevin Love? Probably pretty damn desperate. Rondo is a FA at the end of the year, so just drafting Randle/Vonleh/Gordon/Smart at 6 isn't likely going to cut it for him. It's probably reached the point where they either need to make a win now splash to help keep Rondo or need to trade him and rebuild. And ownership is on record as...

A.) being very high on Rondo and wanting to keep him and build with him rather than consider trading him/rebuilding and...
B.) not being big on the tanking/lottery process. Only doing it last year because our team had declined so greatly and had so few assets that there was no real path to success last year, but it's not really a consistent team building method they (or Ainge) believe in.

So I'd say the win now splash is more their style than trying to trade Rondo (likely for less than fair value considering his UFA status limiting suitors), rebuild around Randle/Vonleh/Gordon/Smart and going deep into the lottery.

Ainge has also proven he's willing to take risks for stars. He was the only GM in the league willing to do a CP3 trade without CP3 opting into final year of his deal, and was ready to take his chances he could convince him to stay after the fact. http://sports.yahoo.com/news/celtics-st ... --nba.html

Rondo, Green and 2 future 1sts for an unsigned CP3. And Rondo particularly at that time had a lot more value than the 6th pick does now. He was like 25 and on a major steal of a contract.

[mysticbb]

So I'd say the win now splash is more their style than trying to trade Rondo (likely for less than fair value considering his UFA status limiting suitors), rebuild around Randle/Vonleh/Gordon/Smart and going deep into the lottery.

I completely understand that, and I didn't say that they wouldn't offer the #6 in a Love deal and it wouldn't be worth it (in fact, it would be worth from the Celtics perspective, even if Love just plays for 1yr). But it is highly unlikely that this would be enough to get Love. No doubt, if the Celtics can get Love for the #6, Sullinger and crap, they MUST do that. But I have a hard time seeing the Timberwolves being in a position to agree to such a deal. That is not 2007, where the team had not much options to surround Garnett with anything meaningful; we have 2014, where the Timberwolves have a competitive roster around Love, which just needs a few tweaks (similar to the Blazers in the summer 2013). So, in order to convince the Timberwolves to make a deal, the Celtics would most certainly increase their offer. And at that point the question would be: How much are they willing to add for Love on a 1yr contract?

[The Rondo Show]

So I'd say the win now splash is more their style than trying to trade Rondo (likely for less than fair value considering his UFA status limiting suitors), rebuild around Randle/Vonleh/Gordon/Smart and going deep into the lottery.

I completely understand that, and I didn't say that they wouldn't offer the #6 in a Love deal and it wouldn't be worth it (in fact, it would be worth from the Celtics perspective, even if Love just plays for 1yr). But it is highly unlikely that this would be enough to get Love. No doubt, if the Celtics can get Love for the #6, Sullinger and crap, they MUST do that. But I have a hard time seeing the Timberwolves being in a position to agree to such a deal. That is not 2007, where the team had not much options to surround Garnett with anything meaningful; we have 2014, where the Timberwolves have a competitive roster around Love, which just needs a few tweaks (similar to the Blazers in the summer 2013). So, in order to convince the Timberwolves to make a deal, the Celtics would most certainly increase their offer. And at that point the question would be: How much are they willing to add for Love on a 1yr contract?

I'd guess the Celtics would offer something along the lines of #6, #17, Nets unprotected '16 1st, Sullinger and the expiring contracts of Brandon Bass and Joel Anthony. And most Wolves fans seem to think that type of offer is right up there with any, if not better than any.

[mysticbb]

I'd guess the Celtics would offer something along the lines of #6, #17, Nets unprotected '16 1st, Sullinger and the expiring contracts of Brandon Bass and Joel Anthony.

And may be willing to use the Pierce-TPE to take on a player?

But see, that's what I meant with giving up future assets and putting yourself at the mercy of Love (+Rondo).

And most Wolves fans seem to think that type of offer is right up there with any, if not better than any.

Given their past actions, I think the #1 will be on the table for Love; the Cavs seems to be more willing to take the proven superstar now, than wait for the rookie to develop. The lottery changed the landscape for possible Love-deals a lot. Last year the Cavs supposedly offered Thompson, Waiters and the 1st pick overall for Love. What would they add to the 2014 #1 in order to get Love? I think that would be the competition the Celtics are up against. And the Cavs showed in the past that they are willing to take the risk that a player would not stay (like the trade for Deng).

[The Rondo Show]

I'd guess the Celtics would offer something along the lines of #6, #17, Nets unprotected '16 1st, Sullinger and the expiring contracts of Brandon Bass and Joel Anthony.

And may be willing to use the Pierce-TPE to take on a player?

But see, that's what I meant with giving up future assets and putting yourself at the mercy of Love (+Rondo).

And most Wolves fans seem to think that type of offer is right up there with any, if not better than any.

Given their past actions, I think the #1 will be on the table for Love; the Cavs seems to be more willing to take the proven superstar now, than wait for the rookie to develop. The lottery changed the landscape for possible Love-deals a lot. Last year the Cavs supposedly offered Thompson, Waiters and the 1st pick overall for Love. What would they add to the 2014 #1 in order to get Love? I think that would be the competition the Celtics are up against. And the Cavs showed in the past that they are willing to take the risk that a player would not stay (like the trade for Deng).

Well, if the Cavs put #1 on the table, there's no question the Celtics and all other teams are out of the Love sweepstakes.

I tend to think that's only realistic if they get word from LeBron that he will re-sign if they deal the #1 pick for Love. There's a pretty huge difference between giving up the mediocre protected pick(s) that the Cavs gave up for Luol Deng and giving up a player like Embiid, Wiggins or Parker.

But I think everyone knows if #1 is on the table, the sweepstakes are over. I'm talking more about Celtics offer compared to other non-Cavs type teams that we've heard linked like GSW/CHI/LAL/PHX/etc.

As for the TE, I could see them taking on Kevin Martin but that's about it. I consider #6/#17/Sullinger/BKN unprotected 16/expirings to be a pretty hefty offer. Celtics will want the TE to help put talent around Love/Rondo. Martin might work since he's a good player and good fit next to Rondo. Don't think too many others fit for the Celtics.

[AQuintus]

But Love wants to accomplish three things: Being able to choose freely who he signs with

Except that that's not how free agency works. He would be able to choose freely who he signs with... out of the teams that have enough cap space to give him a max deal. Most of those teams won't also be contenders.

[nodeal]

A 0% chance of an extension is correct. When love becomes a free agent boston can offer roughly 5/100 if Love is a celtic. They would have an edge as other teams would only be able to offer roughly 4/75m even if love demands a S&T.

If I was the wolves i would be all over #6/#17/Sullinger/expirings. Id be hesitant if i was Boston, but you cant deny its a high risk but also high reward move. Love and Rondo might even sign for less to help build a team around them.

[mysticbb]

Well, if the Cavs put #1 on the table, there's no question the Celtics and all other teams are out of the Love sweepstakes.

Yeah, that's essentially what I think will be the case.

I tend to think that's only realistic if they get word from LeBron that he will re-sign if they deal the #1 pick for Love.

Oh well, that would make a deal based on #1 for Love a no-brainer. Getting the best player in the league, while putting someone like Love at PF to accompany him? They must be incredible unlucky to not be contending for the championship ...

There's a pretty huge difference between giving up the mediocre protected pick(s) that the Cavs gave up for Luol Deng and giving up a player like Embiid, Wiggins or Parker.

Yes, there is. Not denying that. But my point was that they are willing to give up future assets for unsigned players. And Deng in that case can also be used as some sort of assurance, if James is not willing to sign. Even a team with Love and Deng would be competitive enough.

I'm talking more about Celtics offer compared to other non-Cavs type teams that we've heard linked like GSW/CHI/LAL/PHX/etc.

I agree with the Warriors, Lakers and Suns, but if the Bulls put out Mirotic (and he expressed the willingness of coming to the Timberwolves for a reasonable price next season), as well as adding in: #16, #19, Kings 2015, own future pick as well as being able to absorb an unwanted contract via the unguaranteed salary of James, Amundson and Brewer? And there is the possibility that the Bulls can exchange the #16 (or even #19) combined with the 2015 Cavs pick for the #8. We then have a #4 to #6 like talent in Mirotic plus the rest, which seems to be better than the other offers.

As for the TE, I could see them taking on Kevin Martin but that's about it. I consider #6/#17/Sullinger/BKN unprotected 16/expirings to be a pretty hefty offer. Celtics will want the TE to help put talent around Love/Rondo. Martin might work since he's a good player and good fit next to Rondo. Don't think too many others fit for the Celtics.

Martin would fit as a player for the Celtics, but he also would put even more pressure on the Celtics given the contract situation. Then we have the contract of Wallace on the payroll ... If you just want to use Bass+Sullinger to take on Love, there would be Green as well ... Rondo-Martin-Green-Love-no center with Bradley (who I think should be brought back, and the Celtics have great chance seeing that he is RFA), Wallace plus ??? If that does not work out, the Celtics are left with $26.4m salary for Green, Wallace and Martin in 2015, with Rondo's and Love's caphit essentially leaving no room under the salary cap. The only way to improve would be the room-exception. So, basically stuck with that team. If that team misses the playoffs, Love is very likely gone. And to be honest, despite Love's strength (and I value him usually higher than the average fan does), I can only see the Celtics sneaking barely into the playoffs with that team while losing clearly in the first round.

[mysticbb]

But Love wants to accomplish three things: Being able to choose freely who he signs with

He would be able to choose freely who he signs with... out of the teams that have enough cap space to give him a max deal.

Or would be able to get a S&T deal done ... I'm not denying such thing, but we saw the Rockets signing Howard away from the freaking Lakers ... I think that example will make other teams very cautious.

Though, the point was that Love will not sign an extension now, which your posts doesn't negate. And the decision how much a teams offers for Love, will likely be influenced by the fact that Love is on a 1yr deal ... arguing that the offer would be higher, if Love agrees to an extension, doesn't mean much here, while in reality Love will not sign that extension.

[AQuintus]

Or would be able to get a S&T deal done ...

1) Only if the Wolves play ball.
2) It's the same situation as trading him to a team now. If they don't have the capability of signing him outright, Minnesota would have the leverage to get some assets from them.

I'm not denying such thing, but we saw the Rockets signing Howard away from the freaking Lakers ... I think that example will make other teams very cautious.

Sure, it could make teams cautious, but based on rumors of team interest for Love, it hasn't. It's important to remember that Dwight in LA was a unique situation with a uniquely indecisive individual.

Though, the point was that Love will not sign an extension now, which your posts doesn't negate.

No, he probably won't, but as long as the team trading for him believes that he'll sign long term as a Bird rights Free Agent, I doubt it will matter much.