Ford Mock 6.0 #2 Embiid

breakchains · Post #61 » by **breakchains** » Wed May 21, 2014 3:53 pm

If you closely follow any draft (NBA/NFL) from year to year over time, you see how foolish the "next year has a really strong Y class, so we should take X position now" is.

ANTETOKOUNBROS · Post #62 » by **ANTETOKOUNBROS** » Wed May 21, 2014 3:56 pm

breakchains wrote:If you closely follow any draft (NBA/NFL) from year to year over time, you see how foolish the "next year has a really strong Y class, so we should take X position now" is.

You'd be right if there was a near-guaranteed can't miss prospect this year. There isn't so it is not illogical to evaluate upside and needs this year and the next.

JimmyTheKid · Post #63 » by **JimmyTheKid** » Wed May 21, 2014 3:57 pm

breakchains wrote:If you closely follow any draft (NBA/NFL) from year to year over time, you see how foolish the "next year has a really strong Y class, so we should take X position now" is.

Yup. Remember when Shabazz Muhammed was the surefire #1 pick? Then he went to college. Same with Wiggins. So much changes over the course of a year.

GHOSTofSIKMA · Post #64 » by **GHOSTofSIKMA** » Wed May 21, 2014 3:57 pm

LUKE23 wrote:How you evaluate prospects (raw pts/reb stats with no context of efficiency, role in offense, or defensive impact) is ridiculous. If you don't see that, I don't know what to say. I'm going against your "an 11/8 center" comment. It's a dumb comment and I'm calling a spade a spade.

If that's how prospects were evaluated, we should be touting Doug McDermott at #1.

that is one issue out of about 4 I mentioned. If lack of bigtime college production was all that was a matter with him id be much more willing to spend the pick. im not blind..... I see the attraction. my issue is with the guys who see the attraction and then get blind to the downside with the guy. try to find a middle gorund at least.

oden went in front Durant. that's a "cant miss" center. this guy is consensus top 4..... maybe even rumored to fall beyond that. we need to stop talking about him like hes already hakeem because he sorta moves like him. that's ridiculous.

Newz · Post #65 » by **Newz** » Wed May 21, 2014 3:58 pm

Oden did go before Durant and he was a can't miss Center. He would be a great player if he didn't get hurt... just look at his production when he was actually healthy. The guy was a beast, he just couldn't stay on the floor.

breakchains · Post #66 » by **breakchains** » Wed May 21, 2014 3:59 pm

buckRISING wrote:
breakchains wrote:If you closely follow any draft (NBA/NFL) from year to year over time, you see how foolish the "next year has a really strong Y class, so we should take X position now" is.

You'd be right if there was a near-guaranteed can't miss prospect this year. There isn't so it is not illogical to evaluate upside and needs this year and the next.

No matter if there is a can't-miss prospect or not - regardless of whether you pick at #1 or 10, you pick the best prospect. Looking forward to next year is a huge mistake, and if you can't distinguish between prospects enough such that your tie-breakers are what prospects are available next year, you are not cut out to be an NBA GM.

Godgers · Post #67 » by **Godgers** » Wed May 21, 2014 4:00 pm

I think the Cavs will take Embiid and the Bucks go Wiggins, 76ers go Parker, Magic go Exum.

If Embiid is going to throw a little girl fit about playing for the Bucks then I would just go Wiggins or Parker.

You don't want to draft a 7ft lady.

Licensed to Il · Post #68 » by **Licensed to Il** » Wed May 21, 2014 4:02 pm

Godgers wrote:I think the Cavs will take Embiid and the Bucks go Wiggins, 76ers go Parker, Magic go Exum.

If Embiid is going to throw a little girl fit about playing for the Bucks then I would just go Wiggins or Parker.

You don't want to draft a 7ft lady.

Brittany Griner was a decent draft pick for a 7 ft lady.

ANTETOKOUNBROS · Post #69 » by **ANTETOKOUNBROS** » Wed May 21, 2014 4:03 pm

breakchains wrote:
buckRISING wrote:
breakchains wrote:If you closely follow any draft (NBA/NFL) from year to year over time, you see how foolish the "next year has a really strong Y class, so we should take X position now" is.

You'd be right if there was a near-guaranteed can't miss prospect this year. There isn't so it is not illogical to evaluate upside and needs this year and the next.

No matter if there is a can't-miss prospect or not - regardless of whether you pick at #1 or 10, you pick the best prospect. Looking forward to next year is a huge mistake, and if you can't distinguish between prospects enough such that your tie-breakers are what prospects are available next year, you are not cut out to be an NBA GM.

I agree with take best prospect BUT if given the choice between Wiggins and Embiid and knowing what we do now about them and their fit, we take Wiggins and think big next year.

LUKE23 · Post #70 » by **LUKE23** » Wed May 21, 2014 4:05 pm

Oden was a stud when he played, so that isn't a good example. You can't predict injury. And everyone has acknowledged the injury concern with Embiid. But going by per game stats is ridiculous. Again, I'll go back to Hakeem. I'm not saying Embiid is for sure Hakeem, but would you have rated Hakeem poorly based on per game averages as a freshman?

What about Zo (13/7 as a frosh)?
What about Shaq (14/12)?
Mutombo (4/3)?
D-Rob (7/4 at Navy)?
Ewing (13/7.5)?

I'm sure I could go on and on. Big men develop later than swingmen as a general rule. Harder to coordinate larger bodies. But Embiid's footwork is already there. His per minute production is there. There is very little not to like, period.

PkrsBcksGphsMqt · Post #71 » by **PkrsBcksGphsMqt** » Wed May 21, 2014 4:05 pm

I am not afraid of taking Embiid #2, but I would be a little relieved if Cleveland took him #1 so we could just take Wiggins.

ANTETOKOUNBROS · Post #72 » by **ANTETOKOUNBROS** » Wed May 21, 2014 4:07 pm

PkrsBcksGphsMqt wrote:I am not afraid of taking Embiid #2, but I would be a little relieved if Cleveland took him #1 so we could just take Wiggins.

Basically my feelings.

breakchains · Post #73 » by **breakchains** » Wed May 21, 2014 4:07 pm

buckRISING wrote:
breakchains wrote:
buckRISING wrote:
You'd be right if there was a near-guaranteed can't miss prospect this year. There isn't so it is not illogical to evaluate upside and needs this year and the next.

No matter if there is a can't-miss prospect or not - regardless of whether you pick at #1 or 10, you pick the best prospect. Looking forward to next year is a huge mistake, and if you can't distinguish between prospects enough such that your tie-breakers are what prospects are available next year, you are not cut out to be an NBA GM.

I agree with take best prospect BUT if given the choice between Wiggins and Embiid and knowing what we do now about them and their fit, we take Wiggins and think big next year.

You only take Wiggins because you think Wiggins is the better prospect. You don't factor in next year's draft. If you take Wiggins because you think Wiggins is the better prospect, then next year you may look towards bigs because of the construction of our core, but that is a function of our roster come next draft time - it doesn't, or shouldn't, factor into your decision making for this year's pick.

ANTETOKOUNBROS · Post #74 » by **ANTETOKOUNBROS** » Wed May 21, 2014 4:12 pm

breakchains wrote:
buckRISING wrote:
breakchains wrote:No matter if there is a can't-miss prospect or not - regardless of whether you pick at #1 or 10, you pick the best prospect. Looking forward to next year is a huge mistake, and if you can't distinguish between prospects enough such that your tie-breakers are what prospects are available next year, you are not cut out to be an NBA GM.

I agree with take best prospect BUT if given the choice between Wiggins and Embiid and knowing what we do now about them and their fit, we take Wiggins and think big next year.

You only take Wiggins because you think Wiggins is the better prospect. You don't factor in next year's draft. If you take Wiggins because you think Wiggins is the better prospect, then next year you may look towards bigs because of the construction of our core, but that is a function of our roster come next draft time - it doesn't, or shouldn't, factor into your decision making for this year's pick.

In this case exactly. I am saying, who the better prospect is obscure between Wiggins and Embiid. What do you do in this case? Neither are guarantees and have their own +/- both are boom or bust.

breakchains · Post #75 » by **breakchains** » Wed May 21, 2014 4:15 pm

buckRISING wrote:
breakchains wrote:
buckRISING wrote:
I agree with take best prospect BUT if given the choice between Wiggins and Embiid and knowing what we do now about them and their fit, we take Wiggins and think big next year.

You only take Wiggins because you think Wiggins is the better prospect. You don't factor in next year's draft. If you take Wiggins because you think Wiggins is the better prospect, then next year you may look towards bigs because of the construction of our core, but that is a function of our roster come next draft time - it doesn't, or shouldn't, factor into your decision making for this year's pick.

In this case exactly. I am saying, who the better prospect is obscure between Wiggins and Embiid. What do you do in this case? Neither are guarantees and have their own +/- both are boom or bust.

That might be the way you are looking at it, but if you can't decide who you like better between the two and use who is available next year as your tie-breaker, then you shouldn't be the general manager of an NBA team. Rarely, if ever, in the age of the 1-and-done, will there be a guaranteed prospect and all will have +/-. It's the job of the GM to determine who is the better prospect. Looking to next year's prospects as an important variable is a huge mistake.

driese0824 · Post #76 » by **driese0824** » Wed May 21, 2014 4:15 pm

Godgers wrote:I think the Cavs will take Embiid and the Bucks go Wiggins, 76ers go Parker, Magic go Exum.

If Embiid is going to throw a little girl fit about playing for the Bucks then I would just go Wiggins or Parker.

You don't want to draft a 7ft lady.

if no trades are made that exactly how I see it to,it all comes down to wether the 6ers trade with the cavs for wiggins

Zeezprah · Post #77 » by **Zeezprah** » Wed May 21, 2014 4:16 pm

yea parker and exum to philly and orlando respectively are locks imo.

top 2 is the only doubt. i think if embiid's back 100% checks out, cleveland is going to have a tough time not taking him. they need a C pretty badly, and embiid and is the best to come out since oden.

either way i'll be pretty happy, and if embiid's back doesn't check out, parker will still be a great pick for us.

ANTETOKOUNBROS · Post #78 » by **ANTETOKOUNBROS** » Wed May 21, 2014 4:19 pm

breakchains wrote:
buckRISING wrote:
breakchains wrote:You only take Wiggins because you think Wiggins is the better prospect. You don't factor in next year's draft. If you take Wiggins because you think Wiggins is the better prospect, then next year you may look towards bigs because of the construction of our core, but that is a function of our roster come next draft time - it doesn't, or shouldn't, factor into your decision making for this year's pick.

In this case exactly. I am saying, who the better prospect is obscure between Wiggins and Embiid. What do you do in this case? Neither are guarantees and have their own +/- both are boom or bust.

That might be the way you are looking at it, but if you can't decide who you like better between the two and use who is available next year as your tie-breaker, then you shouldn't be the general manager of an NBA team. Rarely, if ever, in the age of the 1-and-done, will there be a guaranteed prospect and all will have +/-. It's the job of the GM to determine who is the better prospect. Looking to next year's prospects as an important variable is a huge mistake.

It's an art not a science -- otherwise Oden wouldn't have been #1. No one here is qualified to be a GM, myself or you included.

breakchains · Post #79 » by **breakchains** » Wed May 21, 2014 4:20 pm

buckRISING wrote:
breakchains wrote:
buckRISING wrote:
In this case exactly. I am saying, who the better prospect is obscure between Wiggins and Embiid. What do you do in this case? Neither are guarantees and have their own +/- both are boom or bust.

That might be the way you are looking at it, but if you can't decide who you like better between the two and use who is available next year as your tie-breaker, then you shouldn't be the general manager of an NBA team. Rarely, if ever, in the age of the 1-and-done, will there be a guaranteed prospect and all will have +/-. It's the job of the GM to determine who is the better prospect. Looking to next year's prospects as an important variable is a huge mistake.

It's an art not a science -- otherwise Oden wouldn't have been #1. No one here is qualified to be a GM, myself or you included.

The Bucks have a GM. The Bucks GM should not look to next year's draft as a variable because he is not able to distinguish between two prospects.

driese0824 · Post #80 » by **driese0824** » Wed May 21, 2014 4:23 pm

Zeezprah wrote:yea parker and exum to philly and orlando respectively are locks imo.

top 2 is the only doubt. i think if embiid's back 100% checks out, cleveland is going to have a tough time not taking him. they need a C pretty badly, and embiid and is the best to come out since oden.

either way i'll be pretty happy, and if embiid's back doesn't check out, parker will still be a great pick for us.

I agree if embiids back checks out hes a cav,if it doesn't he wont be a cav,buck,sixer and maybe even a magic.
Now if embiid back does check out and the cavs pass on him then it becomes interesting cause if the bucks don't take him where does he fall to,the 6ers don't need him and the majic well do they