3&D Player Thread

[90sAllDecade]

One thing almost all Rocket fans agree on is that we need more 3&D role players to fit our offense and improve perimeter defense in the playoffs.

Since our off-season has started and it's a slower time, I wanted to go in depth scouting who I hope we can pick up.

Post any suggestions in free agency, trade or the draft you think would be good additions.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTYbe62dXLo[/youtube]

My first suggestion is to draft Gary Harris if we trade up to the 10-15 spots or if he drops lower. He's a role player, but perfect for our system and roster. He's a sophomore that can guard PGs, SGs and possibly smaller SFs, can hit the three (41% last year, 35% as a first option this year) and has the character you look for.

If Morey can't get Marcus Smart via trade (no threes, but I like him), I hope he drafts Harris if the opportunity arises in a trade package.

[MaxRider]

if the whole team wont commit to play defense
it doesn't matter if you have bruce bowen
you have haren and parson at sg/sf
your 3&D guy is just a backup
he can't help much

[rocketsballin]

if morey thinks an another star player with a 3d guy will get the rockets a championship, he's in for a rude awakening. there's this thing called "basketball" that rockets suck at. or should i say "professional basketball"

[MaxRider]

if t-jones can add more strength in off season and play like josh smith like defense
if howard will start boxing out on rebound
if haren can start play defense
if lin can learn keeping his dribble and stop passing in the air
if parsons stop worrying about the spotlight and concentrate playing basketball
if asik can just play his game and stop worrying about his playing time

[rocketsballin]

there's still plenty of time and morey knows his approach failed hard. i'll wait and see

[90sAllDecade]

if the whole team wont commit to play defense
it doesn't matter if you have bruce bowen
you have haren and parson at sg/sf
your 3&D guy is just a backup
he can't help much

I agree we need better coaching.

That alone would improve Harden's and Parson's defense, look at what Clifford did in Charlotte with a horrible defensive team and the same "hopeless" defensive players. They went from 30th in the league defensively to 5th. Thibs took his team from good defensively to great with almost the same team.

Bruce Bowen was very important during those Spurs runs and Tony Allen was a back up for most of his career and had a great impact. Those guys are needed and have an impact on a championship team imo.

A true defensive perimeter player would have helped an unhealthy Beverly guard Lillard and provided a fresh body for defense.

Perimeter defense and three point shooting, aside from late game execution/coaching are some of the big reasons we lost in the playoffs this year.

[Lorenzomax7]

if t-jones can add more strength in off season and play like josh smith like defense
if howard will start boxing out on rebound
if haren can start play defense
if lin can learn keeping his dribble and stop passing in the air
if parsons stop worrying about the spotlight and concentrate playing basketball
if asik can just play his game and stop worrying about his playing time

if t-jones can add more strength in off season and play like josh smith like defense hopeless
if howard will start boxing out on rebound he can when he thinks the game is important
if haren can start play defense better talk about this 3 yrs later otherwise it sounds unrealistic to me
if lin can learn keeping his dribble and stop passing in the air stop overrating him then he will be fine... and leave
if parsons stop worrying about the spotlight and concentrate playing basketball he's just not a great fit for a contender imo
if asik can just play his game and stop worrying about his playing time he has been doing that in the last 20 games

[Lorenzomax7]

if the whole team wont commit to play defense
it doesn't matter if you have bruce bowen
you have haren and parson at sg/sf
your 3&D guy is just a backup
he can't help much

spot-on

[Lorenzomax7]

if the whole team wont commit to play defense
it doesn't matter if you have bruce bowen
you have haren and parson at sg/sf
your 3&D guy is just a backup
he can't help much

I agree we need better coaching.

That alone would improve Harden's and Parson's defense, look at what Clifford did in Charlotte with a horrible defensive team and the same "hopeless" defensive players. They went from 30th in the league defensively to 5th. Thibs took his team from good defensively to great with almost the same team.

Bruce Bowen was very important during those Spurs runs and Tony Allen was a back up for most of his career and had a great impact. Those guys are needed and have an impact on a championship team imo.

A true defensive perimeter player would have helped an unhealthy Beverly guard Lillard and provided a fresh body for defense.

Perimeter defense and three point shooting, aside from late game execution/coaching are some of the big reasons we lost in the playoffs this year.

Jones is not a perimeter guy actually. But I agree with most of what you said.

Is anybody interested in xRAPM? Let it show how good a contending team should be:

Full size #1 : http://ww2.sinaimg.cn/large/81a664dcgw1 ... 2v3qi4.jpg
Full size #2 : http://ww1.sinaimg.cn/large/81a664dcgw1 ... 31ab29.jpg

#1

Spoiler:

#2

Spoiler:

[ChokeFasncists]

I don't think we can rely on a rookie 3 and D guy. It's not easy to be good at it, takes a while.

Like someone else has said, if Harden and Parsons are starting I don't think a real good 3 and D guy makes that much sense as there'll be very little minutes. DMC could be a good option, so I included him in the Harden for Love trade, or maybe some kind of Parsons/Asik for Millsap and DMC plus? It'd be a little regrettable tho, cuz I think Parsons is not bad and capable of better D, just need better coaching.

If we get one for backup then the guy's probably not very good, like if Ronnie Brewer could shoot better?

[90sAllDecade]

Jones is not a perimeter guy actually. But I agree with most of what you said.

Is anybody interested in xRAPM? Let it show how good a contending team should be:

Full size #1 : http://ww2.sinaimg.cn/large/81a664dcgw1 ... 2v3qi4.jpg
Full size #2 : http://ww1.sinaimg.cn/large/81a664dcgw1 ... 31ab29.jpg

#1

Spoiler:

#2

Spoiler:

I actually was thinking along the lines of LMA killing us with 15-20 ft jumpers as weak perimeter defense, but the thought crossed my mind to specify PF as well to prevent confusion. But my miscommunication and semantics aside, I agree with you.

Very cool data, thanks. Is this yours or from a source?

One question, is there any data on Asik or Tony Allen?

Also, I like advanced stats, but even the best ones often have flaws when looked upon without context. For example competition level, the impact of coaching scheme etc.

Judging from what you have though (which is great), PF role-players who could fit that need are guys like Taj Gibson or Amir Johnson.

(This next section isn't directed specifically at you Lorenzomax, it's just to share data for anyone who's interested about why we might have 3&D needs as well.)

We also need three point shooting along with PF & perimeter defense.

We have the #1 3pt attempts in the league regular season, but shot only a mediocre 16th in the league in 3pt FG%. We lack true shooters for the type of offense we run.

This is what killed us in the playoffs, we shot 32% (if you take out Troy Daniel's 53%, we shot around 29%) from 3pters and Portland stayed around thier 3pt average of 37%.

LMA was destroying Jones, true. But he went off on us in the regular season and we won 3-1 in the series. The biggest difference as Lillard. We had no adjustment for him unlike starting Asik on LMA to slow him down.

LMA vs Houston RS:

26.8 ppg 15.5 rpg .499% TS
Ortg 114 Drtg 109

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/aldrila01/splits/2014/

Lillard vs Houston RS

18.8 ppg 5.0 apg .423 3pt% .555% TS
Ortg 101 Drtg 123

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/lillada01/splits/2014/

LMA vs Hou PO (green is an increase, red decrease)

29.8 ppg 11.2 rpg .546% TS
Ortg 119 Drtg 113

Lillard vs Hou PO

25.5 ppg 6.7 apg .489 3pt% .655% TS
Ortg 135 Drtg 117

LMA's TS% was .499% RS and .546% PO +.047%
Lillard's TS% was .555% RS and .665% PO +.100%

http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_2014_WC1.html#HOU-POR

In short, we made adjustments and slowed LMA down with Asik starting, but we had no answer for Lillard with Bev sick.

I think we very much need a defensive PF if Asik leaves and badly need a 3&D perimeter player for all the top PGs and wing players in the NBA we could face in the postseason.

[90sAllDecade]

I don't think we can rely on a rookie 3 and D guy. It's not easy to be good at it, takes a while.

Like someone else has said, if Harden and Parsons are starting I don't think a real good 3 and D guy makes that much sense as there'll be very little minutes. DMC could be a good option, so I included him in the Harden for Love trade, or maybe some kind of Parsons/Asik for Millsap and DMC plus? It'd be a little regrettable tho, cuz I think Parsons is not bad and capable of better D, just need better coaching.

If we get one for backup then the guy's probably not very good, like if Ronnie Brewer could shoot better?

Agreed.

These are suggestions, but since we're going to draft a player anyway why not address a need as well?

Troy Daniels played 75 NBA minutes but had a game changing impact on one possession. Back in the days rookie Sam Cassell had an impact on the Rockets winning a championship. Rookies may not have a sustained impact, can still affect things on a smaller scale imo.

But to go along with what you're saying, I also think we could get 3&D guys via trade or free agency as well. There are many role players like that who are very good. For example Avery Bradley has expressed some dissatisfaction in Boston, Ariza & Deng are free agents and guys like PJ Tucker fit the need, he's a restricted free agent.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOr9nZQPEcw[/youtube]

We're also assuming we don't get someone like Melo, Love or Rondo in the off-season and Parsons is traded. This would also affect other teams wanting to trade for stars as well, or trying to clear cap-space.

My guess is there are many potential changes this off season and there will likely be several opportunities to acquire new players as Les suggested we would this summer.

[BaYBaller]

Typically 3 & D players tend to be vets though. It's hard to find deadeye 3 & D players right out of college. Remember it usually takes at least a year or two for most college players to adjust to the NBA 3-pt line.

[MaxRider]

Typically 3 & D players tend to be vets though. It's hard to find deadeye 3 & D players right out of college. Remember it usually takes at least a year or two for most college players to adjust to the NBA 3-pt line.

yea took kawhi leonard and danny green few years to get to where they at now
unfortunately morey keep trading away our players

[texasholdem]

Richard Jefferson for the vet min anyone? He shot 41% on threes for Utah. I always wondered what would have happened if the Rockets didn't do the Eddie Griffin trade.

[PocketRockets]

I agree we need better coaching.

I think we can all stop right there. If we had JVG, we'd be a top 5 def team and would have gone further this year. Our offense would have been predictable, but then again, it already is.

There's no chance we will win a championship unless we get lebron, but there's no excuse to not make it to the second round with this roster now. Sorry if I have nothing to add, but I'm still steaming from the early exit. And please, we don't need carmelo.

[90sAllDecade]

I agree we need better coaching.

I think we can all stop right there. If we had JVG, we'd be a top 5 def team and would have gone further this year. Our offense would have been predictable, but then again, it already is.

There's no chance we will win a championship unless we get lebron, but there's no excuse to not make it to the second round with this roster now. Sorry if I have nothing to add, but I'm still steaming from the early exit. And please, we don't need carmelo.

Yes, that's really the end all be all of the situation. I do still want a third star, but in my opinion elite coaching is what completely changes the franchise with the talent we have.

If we had Clifford from Charlotte, Thibs, Carlise, or any other elite defensive coach/playcaller we're in the second round and can go deep.

With the same players imo. It's already been done before, Charlotte literally went from worst to top 5 with the almost the same roster. Al Jefferson helped bring offense, not defense.

[ChokeFasncists]

Agreed.

These are suggestions, but since we're going to draft a player anyway why not address a need as well?

Troy Daniels played 75 NBA minutes but had a game changing impact on one possession. Back in the days rookie Sam Cassell had an impact on the Rockets winning a championship. Rookies may not have a sustained impact, can still affect things on a smaller scale imo.

Sure, as long as the guy is one of the best player available and there's no expectation that he'd really contribute in two years that'd be fine.

But to go along with what you're saying, I also think we could get 3&D guys via trade or free agency as well. There are many role players like that who are very good. For example Avery Bradley has expressed some dissatisfaction in Boston, Ariza & Deng are free agents and guys like PJ Tucker fit the need, he's a restricted free agent.

We're also assuming we don't get someone like Melo, Love or Rondo in the off-season and Parsons is traded. This would also affect other teams wanting to trade for stars as well, or trying to clear cap-space.

My guess is there are many potential changes this off season and there will likely be several opportunities to acquire new players as Les suggested we would this summer.

Avery Bradley isn't really a 3&D guy, he's a better slasher than shooter, his jumper is inconsistent and his D is too similar to Bev's IMO. Ariza would be nice but expensive and I'm not sure why we want to get him when we have Parsons; Deng would be dream but hard to get, I'd imagine every team would want him, extremely expensive but IMO worth it(he doesn't exactly fit the definition of a 3&D guy); I'm all for PJ Tucker, but I'd imagine unless we overpay, the Suns would match; perhaps another Morey's poison pill?

Richard Jefferson for the vet min anyone? He shot 41% on threes for Utah. I always wondered what would have happened if the Rockets didn't do the Eddie Griffin trade.

Dang, he was definitely better than Griffin back then. Collins was better than Cato IMO.

Now, his D really sucks, but vet min wouldn't hurt I guess.

TBH, we freaking miss Delfino this year.


*PS. Actually George Hill off the bench for Haren seems not bad. As I mentioned several days ago, how about:

George Hill + pick
for
Jeremy Lin + cash?

I think it could also solve some of their problems. He instilled the Spurs' professionalism on the Pacers and helped them along, maybe he could help us now. Of course, if McDoomedHell lightens up and start the best five, it's a totally different story. The problem tho is that he's a bit undersized and a bit of duplicate with Bev. On the other hand, it'd be nice if Bev doesn't have to play too many minutes so he won't get injured as much.

[90sAllDecade]

Avery Bradley isn't really a 3&D guy, he's a better slasher than shooter, his jumper is inconsistent and his D is too similar to Bev's IMO.

I hear you that Avery Bradley may not be a consistent overall offensive player. But he improved significantly this season, shooting the most 3ptrs of his career this year and hit .395%. Besides Troy Daniels, that would make him the best 3pt shooter on our current roster.

What's wrong with Beverley's defense? He was hurt and sick in the playoffs against Lillard if that's what you're looking at, but when he's healthy his on ball defense is very good. If you value statistics, by most metrics he's a top flight defender at the PG position.

If Avery's defense is like that, I definitely think we could use more of that. Avery also made the All Defensive second team last year.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2ZO3-Iq-t4[/youtube]

Ariza would be nice but expensive and I'm not sure why we want to get him when we have Parsons; Deng would be dream but hard to get, I'd imagine every team would want him, extremely expensive but IMO worth it(he doesn't exactly fit the definition of a 3&D guy); I'm all for PJ Tucker, but I'd imagine unless we overpay, the Suns would match; perhaps another Morey's poison pill?

Yeah that's true, I also don't think we really need the expensive guys unless Parsons, Lin or Asik gets traded to free up cap-space. It also depends what bigger moves we possibly make this off-season and how everything would fit.

Lol, yeah one more poison pill and we'd have to nickname Morey "The Pharmacist" or something.

[rocketsballin]

all these plyaers are unrestricted, my lazy ass breakdown

bradley - undersized but perfect for small ball
kirk - combo guard, 6'4 is short but good enough, defended pierce hard in the po's when rose was healthy
cjm iles - capable defender, but he can shoot the 3ball. if he willing to sign a vet min for a "contender"
granger - might opt out for security. he's a vet who spread the floor and plays good d, small ball at pf...perfect
meeks, henry, young - if i can choose oner i'll take young, underrated but also lazy. they all bring their own 3/d
thabs - a healthy thabo can shoot the 3 good enough to play off the bench