ImageImageImage

Kevin Love Free Agency/Trade Thread

Moderators: Domejandro, Calinks, Worm Guts

criteriado
Assistant Coach
Posts: 3,807
And1: 1,257
Joined: Sep 20, 2010
     

Re: Kevin Love Free Agency/Trade Thread 

Post#1981 » by criteriado » Sat May 24, 2014 10:10 pm

Gideon wrote:
Yeah, I know we'd probably want to bring Brewer off the bench to have more spacing in the starting line-up, that Dieng is likely to usurp the starting C position, and that there's zero context to the above other than individual performance last season in one advanced metric. Still, doesn't that look damn good? That's almost 40 wins above replacement for those five guys combined. I insist that the CHI trade would in no way, shape, or form be a rebuilding or treadmill decision -- we'd absolutely have the talent necessary to compete, and our core would include many underrated players who provide significant positive impact in non-traditional ways.


I'd like the trade from the start if we want to compete. But the bench would still be awful. We really need a competent backup PG who is a shooter and can play some minutes with Rubio. Also play Rubio more minutes.
Gideon
Pro Prospect
Posts: 830
And1: 178
Joined: Feb 29, 2012

Re: Kevin Love Free Agency/Trade Thread 

Post#1982 » by Gideon » Sat May 24, 2014 10:46 pm

criteriado wrote:
Gideon wrote:
Yeah, I know we'd probably want to bring Brewer off the bench to have more spacing in the starting line-up, that Dieng is likely to usurp the starting C position, and that there's zero context to the above other than individual performance last season in one advanced metric. Still, doesn't that look damn good? That's almost 40 wins above replacement for those five guys combined. I insist that the CHI trade would in no way, shape, or form be a rebuilding or treadmill decision -- we'd absolutely have the talent necessary to compete, and our core would include many underrated players who provide significant positive impact in non-traditional ways.


I'd like the trade from the start if we want to compete. But the bench would still be awful. We really need a competent backup PG who is a shooter and can play some minutes with Rubio. Also play Rubio more minutes.


I definitely agree with playing Rubio more minutes; I feel strongly that he should average as many minutes as other top young players, and know that he's going to be counted on in the 4th.

IMO if we make the Bulls trade our bench would be considerably better this year, for the following reasons:

(1) We're trading one player in Love for multiple assets, so we're automatically somewhat deeper.

(2) Chances are at least one of our picks will be able to contribute. Along with our #13, we'll likely get at least one more pick in the Love deal and/or a prospect (such as Mirotic) who is good enough to crack the rotation.

(3) Joerger will use role players much better than Adelman did last year. I have a lot of respect for the coaching jobs Adelman did in POR and SAC, but it seemed to me like he really wasn't coaching his A-game in MIN much of the time, and this was especially true with his odd rotations (most blatantly playing Barea and Dante way too much, and only giving Dieng a chance out of absolute necessity). In contrast, Joerger utilized role players like Calathes, Lee, Koufos, and Miller in a way that played to their strengths and fit into the overall team identity.

(4) As far as our specific needs, I can't imagine it will be too difficult to pick up a solid 12 mpg back-up PG to replace Barea, and then make a small trade to clear our mediocre-wing logjam in exchange for a rotation-level PF.

We will probably need to make a small trade or two and sign a couple of minor FA's to make sure our overall roster fit is correct (but that's the case for most teams in most offseasons, and isn't a big deal). Overall, I think last year's bench disaster was part Adelman/part fluke, and we'll almost surely have a much better rotation this coming season.
criteriado
Assistant Coach
Posts: 3,807
And1: 1,257
Joined: Sep 20, 2010
     

Re: Kevin Love Free Agency/Trade Thread 

Post#1983 » by criteriado » Sat May 24, 2014 11:18 pm

Gideon wrote:
criteriado wrote:
Gideon wrote:
Yeah, I know we'd probably want to bring Brewer off the bench to have more spacing in the starting line-up, that Dieng is likely to usurp the starting C position, and that there's zero context to the above other than individual performance last season in one advanced metric. Still, doesn't that look damn good? That's almost 40 wins above replacement for those five guys combined. I insist that the CHI trade would in no way, shape, or form be a rebuilding or treadmill decision -- we'd absolutely have the talent necessary to compete, and our core would include many underrated players who provide significant positive impact in non-traditional ways.


I'd like the trade from the start if we want to compete. But the bench would still be awful. We really need a competent backup PG who is a shooter and can play some minutes with Rubio. Also play Rubio more minutes.


I definitely agree with playing Rubio more minutes; I feel strongly that he should average as many minutes as other top young players, and know that he's going to be counted on in the 4th.



This is still a headscratcher for me. You probably win 6 or 7 more games if you play Rubio 37 instead of 31.

Look at our bench RAPM:

Barea: -3.5 (being so awful is really hard to do)
Dante : -1.12
Chase : -0.5
Hummel: -0.5
Shved : -0,2.
Turiaf: -0.6
Dieng: -2 (RAPM is too harsh on rookies and at the start of the season he was awful)

Terrible all around. Even though, Mbah Moute wasn't good this year, he's a keeper. I think.

Looking at the history of RAPM. Our Flynn has been one of the worst in the last 30 years. Impressive. -7.2 per 100.
JonFromVA
RealGM
Posts: 14,955
And1: 4,948
Joined: Dec 08, 2009
     

Re: Kevin Love Free Agency/Trade Thread 

Post#1984 » by JonFromVA » Sat May 24, 2014 11:22 pm

The Rondo Show wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
Feilong wrote:I think CLE will offer that #1 pick because it doesn't guarantee them a playoff spot at all.
Imagine what will happen if they can't be a playoff team in extremely weak East with 3 #1 picks in 4 years + Thompson + Waiters. Love is the safe route for them.


They'll win the lottery again? :lol:

The more I think about it, the more sense it makes to me that the TWolves hold out until July.

Once free-agents can start talking to teams with cap space, they can start also talking about deals that would bring in Love as well.
Only problem with that idea is Minnesota presumably wants to be able to draft for themselves and the vast majority of suitors are including picks in this year's draft.


Understood, but once the draft is over, they'll know who landed where - and some of the offers for Love could get super interesting if it means completing a new big 3.

As a Cavs fan, I'm thinking of my own team, but there are other teams with cap space to sign a max free agent who surely wouldn't mind adding a 3rd star to put them over the top.

The TWolves do have until the trade deadline to pull something off.
Merc_Porto
General Manager
Posts: 9,941
And1: 3,540
Joined: Nov 21, 2013
   

Re: Kevin Love Free Agency/Trade Thread 

Post#1985 » by Merc_Porto » Sat May 24, 2014 11:28 pm

AQuintus wrote:How would everyone feel about this:

C - N.Pekovic, G.Dieng, R.Turiaf
PF- A.Gordon(#6), J.Sullinger, B.Bass
SF- S.Muhammad, C.Brewer, L.R.Mbah a Moute
SG- E.Gordon, N.Stauskas(#13), O.Jeffers
PG- R.Rubio, R.Sessions (MLE), A.Shved

Trades:

BOS GETS: K.Love + C.Budinger
MIN GETS: #6(Aaron Gordon) + J.Sullinger, J.Anthony + B.Bass + K.Bogans + picks (from Brooklyn via Boston)

CHA GETS: K.Martin
NOP GETS: B.Haywood + J.J.Barea + G.Neal + J.Anthony
MIN GETS: E.Gordon + Pick (protected from NOP)

It's the normal Boston trade (minus the #17 and TPE, allowing Boston to improve their roster further after a Love trade) + we move Barea and Martin to take a flier on E.Gordon (young, 25, high volume 39% 3-point shooter) + a protected pick. Charlotte moves some expirings to get a great fit that helps their next playoff run in Martin, and NOP breaks down Gordon's big 2 year deal into a bunch of smaller expiring contracts at the cost of a protected pick.

Edit: Also, if Gordon doesn't work out, he turns into a huge ($14 million) expiring next year. If he does work out, we should be able to sign him to a much smaller contract in 2 years.


Actually, i really like the idea. And i like it more with Shabazz on the start lineup and Dieng.
I Prefer N.Pekovic coming from the bench.
JonFromVA
RealGM
Posts: 14,955
And1: 4,948
Joined: Dec 08, 2009
     

Re: Kevin Love Free Agency/Trade Thread 

Post#1986 » by JonFromVA » Sat May 24, 2014 11:37 pm

criteriado wrote:Anyone find it funny that the Cavs want to trade for Love without the 1 pick and Kyrie not available. Lulz. I think even the Knicks can top that.


In Thompson (#4), Waiters (#4), Bennet (#1), Zeller (#17), and Karasev (#19) the Cavs have a ton of cheap, young, players who's primary fault over a package of non-top-3 picks in this draft is that they are not complete unknowns at the NBA level.

It still comes down to projecting what these kids might eventually do in a system that would play to their strengths.

And heck, just imagine the sigh of relief that would go up around the league if the TWolves could extract some unprotected future #1 picks from the Cavs. :lol:
User avatar
AQuintus
RealGM
Posts: 10,425
And1: 2,458
Joined: Jan 10, 2008
Location: But let me speak for the weak, I mean the rookies
   

Re: Kevin Love Free Agency/Trade Thread 

Post#1987 » by AQuintus » Sun May 25, 2014 12:03 am

JonFromVA wrote: primary fault over a package of non-top-3 picks in this draft is that they are not complete unknowns at the NBA level.


...and that they aren't any good.

mercgold3 wrote:Actually, i really like the idea. And i like it more with Shabazz on the start lineup and Dieng.
I Prefer N.Pekovic coming from the bench.


My thinking was that Gordon would mostly play with Pek (so they start together), and that Sullinger would mostly play with Dieng (so they both would come off the bench together). All four would play similar minutes (between 20 and 28 mpg).
Image
User avatar
karch34
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,844
And1: 837
Joined: Jul 05, 2001
Location: Valley of the Sun
     

Re: Kevin Love Free Agency/Trade Thread 

Post#1988 » by karch34 » Sun May 25, 2014 2:12 am

AQuintus wrote:
karch34 wrote:I didn't have anything specific, but could see a sign and trade with Detroit for Monroe with us giving back Bud, expirings, 17 and a 2015. Gets them a pick back this year and Bud/SF at 17 slot in better with smith, Drummond, KCP, and Jennings.


3 things:

1) Thanks for at least attempting to make an actual trade. It's very easy to make vague hypothetical. It's much harder to come up with something specific, but it's the specifics that matter since the specific trades are possible, whereas the vague hypothetical probably aren't.

2) I'd be really surprised if they gave up Monroe for so little.

3) With Pek and Dieng already on the roster, his fit here is even worse than his fit there.


I'll admit I haven't watched a lot of Detroit games and not sure what their real interest level in moving Monroe was before the deadline and is now. I'm not sure of his fit at PF, but thought before Smith was acquired looked good there. I would think if they want to move him two 1sts isn't bad. Not sure if that's enough for Detroit and how good the fit is here.
User avatar
karch34
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,844
And1: 837
Joined: Jul 05, 2001
Location: Valley of the Sun
     

Re: Kevin Love Free Agency/Trade Thread 

Post#1989 » by karch34 » Sun May 25, 2014 2:15 am

AQuintus wrote:How would everyone feel about this:

C - N.Pekovic, G.Dieng, R.Turiaf
PF- A.Gordon(#6), J.Sullinger, B.Bass
SF- S.Muhammad, C.Brewer, L.R.Mbah a Moute
SG- E.Gordon, N.Stauskas(#13), O.Jeffers
PG- R.Rubio, R.Sessions (MLE), A.Shved

Trades:

BOS GETS: K.Love + C.Budinger
MIN GETS: #6(Aaron Gordon) + J.Sullinger, J.Anthony + B.Bass + K.Bogans + picks (from Brooklyn via Boston)

CHA GETS: K.Martin
NOP GETS: B.Haywood + J.J.Barea + G.Neal + J.Anthony
MIN GETS: E.Gordon + Pick (protected from NOP)

It's the normal Boston trade (minus the #17 and TPE, allowing Boston to improve their roster further after a Love trade) + we move Barea and Martin to take a flier on E.Gordon (young, 25, high volume 39% 3-point shooter) + a protected pick. Charlotte moves some expirings to get a great fit that helps their next playoff run in Martin, and NOP breaks down Gordon's big 2 year deal into a bunch of smaller expiring contracts at the cost of a protected pick.

Edit: Also, if Gordon doesn't work out, he turns into a huge ($14 million) expiring next year. If he does work out, we should be able to sign him to a much smaller contract in 2 years.


I like it a lot. Gordon is a high risk, high reward type acquisition, but with his contract expiring the risk is limited. I think we're almost too deep at PF in that trade and SF (where I slot Jeffers as primary) but youth, upside, and fit are hard to argue against.
m83588333
Analyst
Posts: 3,286
And1: 1,383
Joined: Mar 16, 2014
Location: Mississauga, Ontario
Contact:

Re: Kevin Love Free Agency/Trade Thread 

Post#1990 » by m83588333 » Sun May 25, 2014 2:38 am

So basically take the Celtic deal and workout who to take #6 + Sullinger.
Using Tapatalk
User avatar
Krapinsky
RealGM
Posts: 20,696
And1: 1,937
Joined: May 13, 2007
Location: Los Angeles

Re: Kevin Love Free Agency/Trade Thread 

Post#1991 » by Krapinsky » Sun May 25, 2014 3:49 am

Didn't Gordon's knee give out again at the end of the year? Not sure there's any boom left there. His contract is toxic as far as I'm concerned.
FinnTheHuman wrote: Your post is just garbage.

NewWolvesOrder wrote:Garbage post, indeed.
User avatar
AQuintus
RealGM
Posts: 10,425
And1: 2,458
Joined: Jan 10, 2008
Location: But let me speak for the weak, I mean the rookies
   

Re: Kevin Love Free Agency/Trade Thread 

Post#1992 » by AQuintus » Sun May 25, 2014 3:59 am

Krapinsky wrote:Didn't Gordon's knee give out again at the end of the year?


I'm not sure. If it did, then yeah, that trade wouldn't happen.

The problem is that I was trying to find a decent, young (18-27) wing that plays some D and shoots the 3 that we could get with some of our expiring contracts. Not a lot of options, though.

Edit:

Here's some info on Gordon' knee issue:

April 11:
The scope Eric Gordon will undergo next week is the first surgery on his left knee.
Gordon's right knee is the one that has been surgically repaired previously. So if there's a shred of good news here, it's that this is only a scope and the right knee is OK. Still, Dynasty owners should note that Gordon has never played in more than 64 games in a season and his knee woes are chronic. He's not going to be an appealing 2014-15 fantasy play.


April 16:
Eric Gordon will have arthroscopic surgery on Wednesday to clean up his left knee, but he's expected to be 100 percent healthy for training camp.
Gordon has never had surgery on his left knee before, though his right knee has given him trouble throughout his brief career. He averaged 15.4 points per game this season but shot only 43.6 percent from the field, and returned season-long 10th-round value.


Doesn't sound like something to be too worried about. "Cleaning up" knees is pretty standard in pro sports, and it isn't his right knee.

If nothing else, we'd turn a couple of smaller 2015 expirings into one huge 2016 expiring.
Image
rugbyrugger23
RealGM
Posts: 10,243
And1: 1,336
Joined: Jun 07, 2011

Re: Kevin Love Free Agency/Trade Thread 

Post#1993 » by rugbyrugger23 » Sun May 25, 2014 4:03 am

Keep Love in MN:

Wolves Trade: Rubio + Pek + Martin + #13
Wolves Receive: Westbrook + Perkins + OKC '14 1st

Thunder Trade: Westbrook + Perkins + #21 + '14 1st
Thunder Receive: Lopez + Rubio + Thornton + #13

Nets Trade: Lopez + Thornton
Nets Receive: Pekovic + Martin + #21

C: Dieng/Perkins/Turiaf
F: Love/LRMAM
F:Brewer/Bud/Bazz
G: Best SG full MLE can land/Shved/Barea
G:Westbrook/Barea

*If this trade can be done sending Bud or Brewer to Nets and keeping Martin, ideal. Just don't think it can be done.
User avatar
AQuintus
RealGM
Posts: 10,425
And1: 2,458
Joined: Jan 10, 2008
Location: But let me speak for the weak, I mean the rookies
   

Re: Kevin Love Free Agency/Trade Thread 

Post#1994 » by AQuintus » Sun May 25, 2014 4:05 am

rugbyrugger23 wrote:Keep Love in MN:

Wolves Trade: Rubio + Pek + Martin + #13
Wolves Receive: Westbrook + Perkins + OKC '14 1st

Thunder Trade: Westbrook + Perkins + #21 + '14 1st
Thunder Receive: Lopez + Rubio + Thornton + #13

Nets Trade: Lopez + Thornton
Nets Receive: Pekovic + Martin + #21

C: Dieng/Perkins/Turiaf
F: Love/LRMAM
F:Brewer/Bud/Bazz
G: Best SG full MLE can land/Shved/Barea
G:Westbrook/Barea

*If this trade can be done sending Bud or Brewer to Nets and keeping Martin, ideal. Just don't think it can be done.


Hate it. Perkins is a turd, and while Westbrook might be a better player than Rubio, he isn't a better PG. And on top of that, trading for other players does NOTHING to guarantee that Love stays. I'd be super pissed if we made that trade and Love walked anyway.

Edit: And the Thunder wouldn't do that deal anyway.

And really, looking at the new roster, the starting lineup, which was top of the league, isn't any better and might even be worse, and the horrible bench, which was all time bad and the reason the team missed the playoffs, might actually be even worse. Barea at backup PG (puke), Shved at backup 2 (puke), Perkins at backup C (puke), Mbah a Moute at backup PF (puke), and Muhammad still stuck at third string (I ran out of puke).
Image
User avatar
andyhop
Analyst
Posts: 3,626
And1: 1,318
Joined: May 08, 2007
   

Re: Kevin Love Free Agency/Trade Thread 

Post#1995 » by andyhop » Sun May 25, 2014 4:10 am

AQuintus wrote:
The problem is that I was trying to find a decent, young (18-27) wing that plays some D and shoots the 3 that we could get with some of our expiring contracts. Not a lot of options, though.

.


How did you end up with Gordon given he is a pretty terrible defensive player
"Football is not a matter of life and death...it's much more important than that."- Bill Shankley
User avatar
AQuintus
RealGM
Posts: 10,425
And1: 2,458
Joined: Jan 10, 2008
Location: But let me speak for the weak, I mean the rookies
   

Re: Kevin Love Free Agency/Trade Thread 

Post#1996 » by AQuintus » Sun May 25, 2014 4:11 am

andyhop wrote:How did you end up with Gordon given he is a pretty terrible defensive player


Looked for wings (18-27) that shoot 35% or better from 3 on basketball-reference.com and then sorted by defensive win shares. Gordon was the highest on the list that I thought we could get.

The one that I'd most want is Maurice Harkless, but I doubt we could get him.
Image
User avatar
Jukeness
Analyst
Posts: 3,335
And1: 326
Joined: Jul 13, 2012
Location: West Saint Paul, MN

Re: Kevin Love Free Agency/Trade Thread 

Post#1997 » by Jukeness » Sun May 25, 2014 4:14 am

rugbyrugger23 wrote:Keep Love in MN:

Wolves Trade: Rubio + Pek + Martin + #13
Wolves Receive: Westbrook + Perkins + OKC '14 1st

Thunder Trade: Westbrook + Perkins + #21 + '14 1st
Thunder Receive: Lopez + Rubio + Thornton + #13

Nets Trade: Lopez + Thornton
Nets Receive: Pekovic + Martin + #21

C: Dieng/Perkins/Turiaf
F: Love/LRMAM
F:Brewer/Bud/Bazz
G: Best SG full MLE can land/Shved/Barea
G:Westbrook/Barea

*If this trade can be done sending Bud or Brewer to Nets and keeping Martin, ideal. Just don't think it can be done.

Image
mondry
Senior
Posts: 732
And1: 278
Joined: Jan 10, 2014
     

Re: Kevin Love Free Agency/Trade Thread 

Post#1998 » by mondry » Sun May 25, 2014 5:07 am

lol might be worse? All we get is Westbrook who's like a good (okay GREAT) version of JJ barea. If we had Dieng and Turiaf I wouldn't even play Perkins though, that's how bad he is. That's not even getting into the fact that he has like what, a legit top 5 worst contract in the nba?

But like I've said before, Westbrook couldn't get a championship with DURANT, either 1A or 1B for best player in the league / MVP, but he's suppose to be our answer to take Love to a championship? Not to mention our supporting cast after that trade is much worse than what the Thunder have had and I agree the worst bench in the league would actually be worse.

The wolves would be dead to me, probably permanently this time, if that's our "big move". OH AND BTW I ALMOST FORGOT, WE GIVE THEM #13 too LOL!
Feilong
Veteran
Posts: 2,872
And1: 1,029
Joined: Jan 26, 2014

Re: Kevin Love Free Agency/Trade Thread 

Post#1999 » by Feilong » Sun May 25, 2014 7:11 am

rugbyrugger23 wrote:Keep Love in MN:

Wolves Trade: Rubio + Pek + Martin + #13
Wolves Receive: Westbrook + Perkins + OKC '14 1st

Thunder Trade: Westbrook + Perkins + #21 + '14 1st
Thunder Receive: Lopez + Rubio + Thornton + #13

Nets Trade: Lopez + Thornton
Nets Receive: Pekovic + Martin + #21

C: Dieng/Perkins/Turiaf
F: Love/LRMAM
F:Brewer/Bud/Bazz
G: Best SG full MLE can land/Shved/Barea
G:Westbrook/Barea

*If this trade can be done sending Bud or Brewer to Nets and keeping Martin, ideal. Just don't think it can be done.


I like it very much.
I would become an OKC fan immediately and enjoy the great basketball Rubio- Durant -Ibaka -Adams would present me.
For MIN RW is so athletic that he might be able to take them to 1st round of playoffs but watching his rambo style is a no-no for me.
Btw i don't think your trades will work because of Rubio's new contract.

Return to Minnesota Timberwolves