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Ford Mock 6.0 #2 Embiid

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Re: Ford Mock 6.0 #2 Embiid 

Post#981 » by PkrsBcksGphsMqt » Sun May 25, 2014 8:00 pm

JustinCredible wrote:
DanoMac wrote:
PkrsBcksGphsMqt wrote:Getcha popcorn ready...

[tweet]https://twitter.com/chadfordinsider/status/470642189341437953[/tweet]


Is this the same type of workout as Parker/Embiid? Hope video surfaces soon.


No. There is a good chance we won't get a video like that on Wiggins/Exum. Those videos came out because all those guys were repped by the same agency. The agency group decided to showcase it.


There will be video!

[tweet]https://twitter.com/chadfordinsider/status/470653920713248768[/tweet]
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Re: Ford Mock 6.0 #2 Embiid 

Post#982 » by JustinCredible » Sun May 25, 2014 8:01 pm

Wise1 wrote:
Max Green wrote:Half of those guys you mentioned will be at the end of their careers or out of the league entirely by the time Parker enters his prime. A couple of guys you mentioned are Centers. Parker isn't even close to fully developing his body yet, comparing him at 19 to those guys who are all in their prime Physically isn't fair at all.


Ha. You beat me to my argument.


Giannis and Parker's bodies will change a lot over the next few years. If they are on the same team that team would have a plan to create the right body type for the position they will slot into. I'm not overly worried about fit here. Just take the best player. If that happens to be Parker I wouldn't let fit alter the choice.
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Re: Ford Mock 6.0 #2 Embiid 

Post#983 » by El Duderino » Sun May 25, 2014 8:05 pm

Max Green wrote:
El Duderino wrote:
Technique isn't going to help Parker if he's playing PF and having tp guard guys like Griffin, Randolph, Adlridge, Dirk, Bosh, West, Monroe, Boozer. Love, Jefferson, Duncan, Sullinger, Favors, etc etc who will all be able to abuse him in the post and/or shoot over him. That will force the Bucks to have to continually double team to protect Parker from getting eaten alive defensively from stronger and/or taller men.

As for Sanders being there to protect Parker in those cases. Offenses can just pull Sanders away from the side where Parker is being posted up, forcing us to double and protect Parker. Smart NBA coaches know how to isolate mismatches on defense.


Half of those guys you mentioned will be at the end of their careers or out of the league entirely by the time Parker enters his prime. A couple of guys you mentioned are Centers. Parker isn't even close to fully developing his body yet, comparing him at 19 to those guys who are all in their prime Physically isn't fair at all.


And new taller and stronger power forwards will enter the league to replace guys who get older and eventually retire, just like new point guards and wings will replace older guys currently in the NBA. Bottom line is you either believe Parker has the size and frame to survive long term as a PF or you don't. I don't, but feel free to disagree. Plus, if he bulks up to much, it will hurt his game offensively.

So then i think he'll mainly have to be a SF and like a Big Dog type who lacked lateral agility, i think odds are he struggles defensively at SF also, but to a lesser degree than at PF.

FWIW, i'm not a Parker hater. Before last season started i'd have been thrilled to know the Bucks would end up with him and i won't exactly be all bummed out if he ends up being the Bucks choice. Right now though i simply prefer Wiggins and am torn at 50/50 between Parker and Exum.
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Re: Ford Mock 6.0 #2 Embiid 

Post#984 » by JayMKE » Sun May 25, 2014 8:07 pm

Chapter29 wrote:
JayMKE wrote:
Chapter29 wrote:I am anti Parker, but really only because we are picking #2 and I don't see him in the same league athletically as Embiid, Wiggins and Exum.

I am hopeful that there is a superstar or perhaps more in this draft. I want that superstar. Not just an all-star which there may be a few in this draft.

Most superstars are superior athletes and 2 way players. I think Parker may struggle to guard the more athletic SF's for example.

Question to the people wanting Parker with the 2nd pick. Is he a superstar in your eyes?


I think most people agree that Embiid is the #1 player in this draft if his back is healthy. Think Parker has a better chance than probably Wiggins or especially Exum at being a superstar. Don't understand how people even have Exum over Smart. You can teach a guy to defend and cover up natural deficiencies with scheme and personnel, not sure you can teach a guy to be the MAN. Parker is such a skilled offensive player at 19, I can't see anyway he isn't a great scorer in this league. He really has it all offensively.

I think Giannis and Parker's games compliment each other perfectly. A frontline of Giannis/Parker/Sanders is mouthwatering, a PG away from being something really special.


Offensively, yep I get that Parker would be the guy. Defensively I just can't get there. I keep thinking Big Dog. A good player, but a guy that defensively just doesn't get it done. Some aspects of defense are hard if not impossible to teach, like quickness, anticipation, instincts.

People also keep comparing him to Melo and sadly that isn't helping either as I am not a Melo fan for the same reasons. Defensively Parker is a tweener and I just don't see the superstar. I see a Big Dog (and I don't mean style, just the all offense no defense player).

From my perspective I want Superman or Batman...not Robin.


Then you better pray Embiid's back is okay and Cleveland passes on him. There isn't anybody else.
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Re: Ford Mock 6.0 #2 Embiid 

Post#985 » by Wise1 » Sun May 25, 2014 8:11 pm

El Duderino wrote:Get a better head coach who doesn't give Knight free reign to dominate the basketball and run the offensive like a competent PG which he isn't, then problem solved.

I certainly wouldn't factor in who i draft at 2 based at all on what an incompetent head coach allows Brandon Knight to do or not do. It's dumb thinking like that why the Bucks have sucked for the better part of two decades.


Well, we have two brilliant hedge fund managers as owners now. They have a history of making good decisions. If they retain Drew/Hammond...maybe, just maybe, they believe that last season was a collective tank effort that was executed to perfection. The proof will be in the pudding. Should they stay or should they go. The owners will make that call and we'll see how the team is coached next year.
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Re: Ford Mock 6.0 #2 Embiid 

Post#986 » by JayMKE » Sun May 25, 2014 8:17 pm

PkrsBcksGphsMqt wrote:To everyone that says Parker is the perfect PF to play between Giannis and Sanders, sell me on it. I don't see how Parker can play (defend) PF at the next level. If your answer is, "Giannis can just defend the PF," what do we do when the other team has both an elite PF and SF/SG? For example, who guards who when we play Miami? Parker on Bosh? Parker on LeBron? Both are scary.

I still have Wiggins ahead of Parker because I am afraid of the prospect of having a tweener that is also a huge liability on defense. I just can't see how that isn't going to be a problem when we finally start playing games that matter.


You're worrying to much about specific match ups, that's why we have coaches. They're suppose to come up with game plans that address these specific match ups, you don't have Jabari guard a guy he can't handle. You adjust, simple as that. Jabari would be a far bigger mismatch against this leagues big powerful 4s on offense than he would be on defense. This is why you have role players, guys like Mbah A Moute. The great thing about Giannis is his versatility and Jabari is as versatile as it comes offensively as well, a good coach can find a way to make it work if they are the player's we think they are.
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Re: Ford Mock 6.0 #2 Embiid 

Post#987 » by El Duderino » Sun May 25, 2014 8:21 pm

Wise1 wrote:
El Duderino wrote:Get a better head coach who doesn't give Knight free reign to dominate the basketball and run the offensive like a competent PG which he isn't, then problem solved.

I certainly wouldn't factor in who i draft at 2 based at all on what an incompetent head coach allows Brandon Knight to do or not do. It's dumb thinking like that why the Bucks have sucked for the better part of two decades.


Well, we have two brilliant hedge fund managers as owners now. They have a history of making good decisions. If they retain Drew/Hammond...maybe, just maybe, they believe that last season was a collective tank effort that was executed to perfection. The proof will be in the pudding. Should they stay or should they go. The owners will make that call and we'll see how the team is coached next year.


I sure hope so. All i was saying is that Brandon Knight shouldn't factor at all in who the Bucks select at number two. He wouldn't even enter my thought process if i was making the pick because Knight will never be good enough to impact a team a lot over the long term. He's a Mo Williams like combo guard, not a key building block going forward.
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Re: Ford Mock 6.0 #2 Embiid 

Post#988 » by El Duderino » Sun May 25, 2014 8:31 pm

JayMKE wrote:
PkrsBcksGphsMqt wrote:To everyone that says Parker is the perfect PF to play between Giannis and Sanders, sell me on it. I don't see how Parker can play (defend) PF at the next level. If your answer is, "Giannis can just defend the PF," what do we do when the other team has both an elite PF and SF/SG? For example, who guards who when we play Miami? Parker on Bosh? Parker on LeBron? Both are scary.

I still have Wiggins ahead of Parker because I am afraid of the prospect of having a tweener that is also a huge liability on defense. I just can't see how that isn't going to be a problem when we finally start playing games that matter.


You're worrying to much about specific match ups, that's why we have coaches. They're suppose to come up with game plans that address these specific match ups, you don't have Jabari guard a guy he can't handle. You adjust, simple as that. Jabari would be a far bigger mismatch against this leagues big powerful 4s on offense than he would be on defense. This is why you have role players, guys like Mbah A Moute. The great thing about Giannis is his versatility and Jabari is as versatile as it comes offensively as well, a good coach can find a way to make it work if they are the player's we think they are.


What we don't want is a Redd or Big Dog like situation where they'd score say 24 points, but their defensive shortcomings allowed the same number of points, thus creating a wash. That's a big reason why neither became upper tier players
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Re: Ford Mock 6.0 #2 Embiid 

Post#989 » by Ayt » Sun May 25, 2014 8:34 pm

machu46 wrote:Regarding Pierce, no idea if he was a poor defender coming out of Kansas, but he was FAR more athletic at the time. He played SG early in his career I believe.


I definitely wouldn't agree with the idea that Pierce was far more athletic. The reason he fell so far in the draft is that people questioned his athleticism since he wasn't the athletic freak that people love to see on the wing. How he'd fair in the NBA on both ends of the court was definitely a question despite his very apparent skill level. That is why he went 3rd amongst the wings behind the freakazoid Vince Carter and the quintessential long, talented SG with sky high potential in Hughes.

I mainly popped in to post this gif. Man, I love this sequence.

Image
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Re: Ford Mock 6.0 #2 Embiid 

Post#990 » by JayMKE » Sun May 25, 2014 8:39 pm

El Duderino wrote:
JayMKE wrote:
PkrsBcksGphsMqt wrote:To everyone that says Parker is the perfect PF to play between Giannis and Sanders, sell me on it. I don't see how Parker can play (defend) PF at the next level. If your answer is, "Giannis can just defend the PF," what do we do when the other team has both an elite PF and SF/SG? For example, who guards who when we play Miami? Parker on Bosh? Parker on LeBron? Both are scary.

I still have Wiggins ahead of Parker because I am afraid of the prospect of having a tweener that is also a huge liability on defense. I just can't see how that isn't going to be a problem when we finally start playing games that matter.


You're worrying to much about specific match ups, that's why we have coaches. They're suppose to come up with game plans that address these specific match ups, you don't have Jabari guard a guy he can't handle. You adjust, simple as that. Jabari would be a far bigger mismatch against this leagues big powerful 4s on offense than he would be on defense. This is why you have role players, guys like Mbah A Moute. The great thing about Giannis is his versatility and Jabari is as versatile as it comes offensively as well, a good coach can find a way to make it work if they are the player's we think they are.


What we don't want is a Redd or Big Dog like situation where they'd score say 24 points, but their defensive shortcomings allowed the same number of points, thus creating a wash. That's a big reason why neither became upper tier players


Do you doubt Parker's willingness or ability to learn? I think the worry about his size and athleticism is silly, I believe the rest is coachable.
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Re: Ford Mock 6.0 #2 Embiid 

Post#991 » by bullox » Sun May 25, 2014 8:44 pm

Ayt wrote:
Image


Clearly shopped, Parker got a steal. We know he can't move laterally and play defense. And we know he's not athletic enough to make that play.
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Re: Ford Mock 6.0 #2 Embiid 

Post#992 » by Ayt » Sun May 25, 2014 8:48 pm

bullox wrote:
Ayt wrote:
Image


Clearly shopped, Parker got a steal. We know he can't move laterally and play defense. And we know he's not athletic enough to make that play.


That is some seriously high level grace and coordination on display for a dude who is 6-9, 240. He makes it look like a walk in the park.

People often talk about Giannis and Wiggins running the break, but having a guy like Parker who can board and run the break on his own along with Giannis would also be very fun to watch.
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Re: Ford Mock 6.0 #2 Embiid 

Post#993 » by Buckrageous » Sun May 25, 2014 8:49 pm

Ayt wrote:
machu46 wrote:Regarding Pierce, no idea if he was a poor defender coming out of Kansas, but he was FAR more athletic at the time. He played SG early in his career I believe.


I definitely wouldn't agree with the idea that Pierce was far more athletic. The reason he fell so far in the draft is that people questioned his athleticism since he wasn't the athletic freak that people love to see on the wing. How he'd fair in the NBA on both ends of the court was definitely a question despite his very apparent skill level. That is why he went 3rd amongst the wings behind the freakazoid Vince Carter and the quintessential long, talented SG with sky high potential in Hughes.

I mainly popped in to post this gif. Man, I love this sequence.

Image

I like the idea that both forwards, Giannis and Parker, can rebound, start a break, and finish in transition.
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Re: Ford Mock 6.0 #2 Embiid 

Post#994 » by ChuckBros4Life » Sun May 25, 2014 9:03 pm

If Parker is mismatched defensively against a guy, I'm confident he'll be able to dominate said guy on offense. For once, maybe we could make a team adjust to us. Parker has the offensive talent to force an adjustment
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Re: Ford Mock 6.0 #2 Embiid 

Post#995 » by Bernman » Sun May 25, 2014 9:06 pm

El Duderino wrote:What we don't want is a Redd or Big Dog like situation where they'd score say 24 points, but their defensive shortcomings allowed the same number of points, thus creating a wash. That's a big reason why neither became upper tier players


But then there was Melo who did. The last couple of years he's had a big discrepancy between his and his opponent's production, still, and the Knicks have statistically been far better with him on the court. It's not his fault he wasn't provided a better supporting cast. Melo didn't use to be that impactful of a player in spite of his volume stats, but that's because he wasn't that efficient. He became one with added efficiency. So if Parker can become that kind of player offensively, he will be impactful.

And defensively I'm of the mind he can guard 4's fine. He measured 6'9" with shoes even going all the way back to 3 years ago. You look at him next to Wiggins and he's a good 1.5 inches taller or so. He's got bulk. And he's not slow for a 4. He was just slowish for a 3. Plus, he does get lift if you watch him to handle the verticality. And as Jay pointed out, he's known for having a good attitude and head on his shoulders, so he projects to improve. That's part of what gives a player upside. It's not just freakish athleticism and size for position. The kid's brain and skill-level should factor in to the that discussion too. There's only so far you can come realistically in those departments as well. I think it's fair to say he still has the least upside of the top 4 because of unideal size and athleticism, but some people act like it's the difference between Michael Jordan and Michael Redd. It's just not the case. Wiggins won't be close to Michael Jordan with his lack of handle, vision, passing, and intangibles. And Parker can easily be much better than Michael Redd, or even Paul Pierce, possessing all the tools Pierce had, while being quite a bit taller to create mismatch potential like Melo does or even then some.
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Re: Ford Mock 6.0 #2 Embiid 

Post#996 » by Chapter29 » Sun May 25, 2014 9:06 pm

JayMKE wrote:
Chapter29 wrote:
JayMKE wrote:
I think most people agree that Embiid is the #1 player in this draft if his back is healthy. Think Parker has a better chance than probably Wiggins or especially Exum at being a superstar. Don't understand how people even have Exum over Smart. You can teach a guy to defend and cover up natural deficiencies with scheme and personnel, not sure you can teach a guy to be the MAN. Parker is such a skilled offensive player at 19, I can't see anyway he isn't a great scorer in this league. He really has it all offensively.

I think Giannis and Parker's games compliment each other perfectly. A frontline of Giannis/Parker/Sanders is mouthwatering, a PG away from being something really special.


Offensively, yep I get that Parker would be the guy. Defensively I just can't get there. I keep thinking Big Dog. A good player, but a guy that defensively just doesn't get it done. Some aspects of defense are hard if not impossible to teach, like quickness, anticipation, instincts.

People also keep comparing him to Melo and sadly that isn't helping either as I am not a Melo fan for the same reasons. Defensively Parker is a tweener and I just don't see the superstar. I see a Big Dog (and I don't mean style, just the all offense no defense player).

From my perspective I want Superman or Batman...not Robin.


Then you better pray Embiid's back is okay and Cleveland passes on him. There isn't anybody else.


That very well could be and I do agree he's got the best shot at being Superman. We take him regardless I figure if he falls. He wont.

I still believe that there will be at least one unexpected failure and one unexpected success. I still wonder if we ever even took a look at Chris Paul for example from our last play in the top of the lotto. Who's this years CP3?

I think Wiggins may develop into a Superman or a Batman. I also get this feeling that Exum may be the guy who surprises. The one thing that gets me about Parker is I think his ceiling is Robin. A poor defending Robin.
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Re: Ford Mock 6.0 #2 Embiid 

Post#997 » by Bernman » Sun May 25, 2014 9:12 pm

Chapter29 wrote:That very well could be and I do agree he's got the best shot at being Superman. We take him regardless I figure if he falls. He wont.

I still believe that there will be at least one unexpected failure and one unexpected success. I still wonder if we ever even took a look at Chris Paul for example from our last play in the top of the lotto. Who's this years CP3?

I think Wiggins may develop into a Superman or a Batman. I also get this feeling that Exum may be the guy who surprises. The one thing that gets me about Parker is I think his ceiling is Robin. A poor defending Robin.


Parker is Bruce Wayne and Wiggins is one of those ordinary citizens in the Dark Knight wearing Batman suits trying to fight crime with relative futility.

Embiid is Batman.

Exum is the Joker/wild card.
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Re: Ford Mock 6.0 #2 Embiid 

Post#998 » by Chapter29 » Sun May 25, 2014 9:16 pm

El Duderino wrote:What we don't want is a Redd or Big Dog like situation where they'd score say 24 points, but their defensive shortcomings allowed the same number of points, thus creating a wash. That's a big reason why neither became upper tier players


This is exactly what I think about with Parker.

Superstars and many all-stars are 2 way players. Parker will not be a 2 way player. He could positionally become a better defender. Can work on position, foot work and things like that.

Embiid is basically a 2 way player right off the bat. Wiggins is an NBA ready defender with the athletic tools to be a good offensive player. Parker is an NBA ready offensive player, but may not have the athletic tools to be a good defensive player.
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Re: Ford Mock 6.0 #2 Embiid 

Post#999 » by chonestown » Sun May 25, 2014 9:19 pm

Wise1 wrote:
El Duderino wrote:
Wise1 wrote:
It's Embiid or Parker for the Bucks. No amount of smokescreening is going to convince me otherwise leading up to the draft. Wiggins' defense is great, but the Bucks probably are confident in Sanders and Knight as anchors defensively on the interior and perimeter respectively. They desperately need a go to scorer to [b]wrest control of the offense from Brandon Knight. [/b]Parker will be their guy if he's there. It makes too much sense. I think Parker projects to be the best skill player at the top of this draft long term. The Bucks may feel that way as well.


Who gives a crap about who the Bucks draft meshing with Knight? I sure don't.



It's clear that Brandon Knight had control of the offense last year. It's clear that the Bucks like Brandon Knight. It's clear that if the Bucks don't draft or acquire a player that's better than Knight offensively, that Knight will again be the dominant personality on the offensive end of the court. Whether you give a crap or not is largely irrelevent.


Just want to add when you say "the Bucks like Brandon Knight" that means the current personnel and coaching staff likes Knight. Whether they're canned this year or next, Hammonds and the Head Gum Chomper in Charge are probably not long for the unemployment line. What they like shouldn't matter more than a vinegar fart.
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Re: Ford Mock 6.0 #2 Embiid 

Post#1000 » by Wise1 » Sun May 25, 2014 9:31 pm

Of course it means the current personnel. That's all that we have to go on at this point. If the new owners were planning on making an immediate change in the front office, they probably would have brought their candidate to the table with them. We've heard nothing about a potential change so I think Hammond and his coach get another year to prove themselves. If the Bucks draft Embiid/Parker...they'll show improvement on the floor and the coach/gm get more leash until the team stagnates. If Parker wins ROY...no way they fire Hammond. His coach will probably stick around too. I think Wiggins is the player in the top 4 most likely to get Hammond and Drew fired. He'll take more time to reach his "potential".

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