Simmons: Reinsdorf Runs Bulls Like Small Market Team

[Chicago-Bull-E]

No I'm not wrong on the on court product being worse because you don't have the records of what those teams would have been had those players been there the next year. IMO I don't see how they wouldn't have been better through the growth of other players AND keeping those guys. Unless you think they would have been on court negatives.

The Knicks and lakers cut costs one year for every 3-5 years of tax. Citing a down year against the multiple times of luxury tax payments is a dumb argument. The bulls are literally the exact opposite.

You keep assetts and trade them when stars come along. Asik would have been an example of this. The problem is the bulls are bad at both.

And when did 'future financial flexibility' come to fruition for the Bulls? How's that working out?

[Michael Jackson]

Ideally I wished we had signed Asik so we wouldn't even have to worry about this years free agent class. It would have been a lot easier paying him 15 million to be our backup and not have any of this drama.

[Rusty Walrus]

"This is what they always do. Spend enough to skirt complete and total criticism. Leave enough not entirely unreasonable influences and timing issues to help you understand. Leave it so the moves in a vacuum — taking apart that bench just to save money — that seem so abhorrent are easily argued with a nice pull quote from a team employee or sound bite in a call-in radio show from the team's owner. You don't need to be an NBA junkie to shake your head at the team's moves, but the Bulls' front office makes it so you don't need to be an NBA salary capologist to understand their impetus behind those moves. The fair-weather fan can be persuaded away from his anger in a manner of minutes, or space of two paragraphs"

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball- ... --nba.html

Written two years ago by our own jgeils (Kelly Dwyer).

Prophetic and true.

Wait until the 2014 plan becomes the 2016 plan and Butler is allowed to walk just so we have the "Durant plan."

I can see it now. "Would you have rather paid Jimmy 12 million or have the drama of trying to get Durant?"

[kyrv]

"This is what they always do. Spend enough to skirt complete and total criticism. Leave enough not entirely unreasonable influences and timing issues to help you understand. Leave it so the moves in a vacuum — taking apart that bench just to save money — that seem so abhorrent are easily argued with a nice pull quote from a team employee or sound bite in a call-in radio show from the team's owner. You don't need to be an NBA junkie to shake your head at the team's moves, but the Bulls' front office makes it so you don't need to be an NBA salary capologist to understand their impetus behind those moves. The fair-weather fan can be persuaded away from his anger in a manner of minutes, or space of two paragraphs"

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball- ... --nba.html

Written two years ago by our own jgeils (Kelly Dwyer).

Prophetic and true.

Wait until the 2014 plan becomes the 2016 plan and Butler is allowed to walk just so we have the "Durant plan."

I can see it now. "Would you have rather paid Jimmy 12 million or have the drama of trying to get Durant?"

You would rather have Asik than shot at Melo or Love? Or Lance or Hayward? Really?

If they pay Butler 12 million, nobody will complain right? Wrong.

------

Small market teams aren't repeat tax payers. Simmons is incorrect yet again.

Next.

[Rusty Walrus]

You would rather have Asik than shot at Melo or Love? Or Lance or Hayward? Really?

If they pay Butler 12 million, nobody will complain right? Wrong.

------

Small market teams aren't repeat tax payers. Simmons is incorrect yet again.

Next.

You completely missed the point on my post. Reread and try again.

Indiana was a luxury tax team for 3 consecutive years, so by your definition they're not a small market team?

[organix85]

The Bulls are repeat tax payers?

[samwana]

I didn't read through the whole thread, but it seems to me that Simmons is trying to do the same to the Bulls as Wade did in 2010, discredit them as much as possible to have a chance that it may stick with guys he wants to have on the Celtics. I think it is pretty close to defamation what he is trying to do here.

[Rerisen]

Ideally I wished we had signed Asik so we wouldn't even have to worry about this years free agent class. It would have been a lot easier paying him 15 million to be our backup and not have any of this drama.

Or you know, we could have like traded him or even Noah and had way more assets to play with.

If Love or Melo move the odds are far more than likely it will be in a trade and not via cap space.

Or we might already have Lamarcus Aldridge

[pduh01]

Or we might already have Lamarcus Aldridge

Or James Harden(When he was with OKC and I honestly think we could get him if we have trade Asik or Noah at the time.) But what do I know.

[Michael Jackson]

Ideally I wished we had signed Asik so we wouldn't even have to worry about this years free agent class. It would have been a lot easier paying him 15 million to be our backup and not have any of this drama.

Or you know, we could have like traded him or even Noah and had way more assets to play with.

If Love or Melo move the odds are far more than likely it will be in a trade and not via cap space.

Or we might already have Lamarcus Aldridge

I agree in most cases but Asik is not really tradable, even harder for the Bulls to trade him because of the way they would have to have paid him. I totally get the argument, I just don't think the Asik situation is one that clearly defines that point. If we traded Noah, I would be fine with that for sure in that case but we were taking salary back in most cases I would assume and we still wouldn't have to worry about FA. I am only partially tongue n cheek about that. I don't wanna have my heart broken again when we take Meeks to the prom.

In honesty if the bulls wanted to be cheap, they would have more guys like Asik so they could just sit on their hands through the big free agents. If they weren't so inept at luring a star this cheap talk wouldn't be a discussion. Sadly though this continued inability to sign or trade for that player just magnifies things

[Michael Jackson]

Or we might already have Lamarcus Aldridge

Or James Harden(When he was with OKC and I honestly think we could get him if we have trade Asik or Noah at the time.) But what do I know.

I really don't think anything we could have offered could trump Houston, I just don't think OKC would be willing to pay Asik 15 mil this year it was a cost savings move by OKC and they got exactly what the desired from Hou.


LMA I could see Portland having been willing to trade him for Noah

[sonny]

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball- ... --nba.html

The Chicago Bulls will finally pay the luxury tax*, in 2012-13, so that the team will be able to point and yell "SEE?!?" when you call the organization's ownership group cheap.

There's always another year, and another plan, to look forward to while we wait for the definitive statement as to whether or not team owner Jerry Reinsdorf cares about the fortunes of the Chicago Bulls enough to spend a fortune on the team that has made him fortune after fortune even after the retirement of Michael Jordan.

There's always, "wait until the summer of 2000; because all the 1998 free agents re-signed with their own teams, the 1999 crew was junk and we just dealt Brent Barry for cap room that summer."

It's always, "wait until Tyson Chandler and Eddy Curry learn to play alongside each other, because Elton Brand was never going to be able to fit in there, and we're sure his looming contract extension had NOTHING to do with us trading him to Los Angeles."

It's always, "wait until 2006, when we'll blind you with Ben Wallace's signing before trading Tyson Chandler's eight-figure contract for an expiring deal — an 'asset' we'll never end up using in a trade because that would add salary."

It's always, "wait until 2010, LeBron James! Carlos Boozer!"

Now the team will try to sell 2013-14, even if it's really selling 2014-15, even if the team doesn't really buy anything in the summer of 2014 outside of locking up Taj Gibson as he enters his 30s, and retaining Deng if his battered body even makes it that long. While adding Mirotic on a, you guessed it, rookie contract. All while playing competitive basketball, winning just enough to keep you coming back.

[GetBuLLish]

You know what would be interesting and perhaps the ultimate test as to how Chicago compares to other teams, especially "big market" teams? A list showing how much teams have spent in total (salary and luxury tax payments) over the past 10 to 15 years. I'd really like to see where the Bulls rank on that list. My guess would be somewhere in the middle.

[WinCity]

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball- ... --nba.html

The Chicago Bulls will finally pay the luxury tax*, in 2012-13, so that the team will be able to point and yell "SEE?!?" when you call the organization's ownership group cheap.

There's always another year, and another plan, to look forward to while we wait for the definitive statement as to whether or not team owner Jerry Reinsdorf cares about the fortunes of the Chicago Bulls enough to spend a fortune on the team that has made him fortune after fortune even after the retirement of Michael Jordan.

There's always, "wait until the summer of 2000; because all the 1998 free agents re-signed with their own teams, the 1999 crew was junk and we just dealt Brent Barry for cap room that summer."

It's always, "wait until Tyson Chandler and Eddy Curry learn to play alongside each other, because Elton Brand was never going to be able to fit in there, and we're sure his looming contract extension had NOTHING to do with us trading him to Los Angeles."

It's always, "wait until 2006, when we'll blind you with Ben Wallace's signing before trading Tyson Chandler's eight-figure contract for an expiring deal — an 'asset' we'll never end up using in a trade because that would add salary."

It's always, "wait until 2010, LeBron James! Carlos Boozer!"

Now the team will try to sell 2013-14, even if it's really selling 2014-15, even if the team doesn't really buy anything in the summer of 2014 outside of locking up Taj Gibson as he enters his 30s, and retaining Deng if his battered body even makes it that long. While adding Mirotic on a, you guessed it, rookie contract. All while playing competitive basketball, winning just enough to keep you coming back.

I dont really see the Bulls failures to lure big fish as the result of some scheme to just keep fan interest high enough to sell tickets. They genuinely want the big fish they just dont have anyone with the gravitas to real them in. Hence why IMO if GarPax fall short yet again this summer I would like to see us elevate Thibs status to personnel decision making as well. I would like to see what he can do with the team.

Thats not so say the Bulls have not been cheap, just that the problem likely stems from wanting to play like a big market team but lacking the GM talent to see the vision through.

[Michael Jackson]

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball- ... --nba.html

The Chicago Bulls will finally pay the luxury tax*, in 2012-13, so that the team will be able to point and yell "SEE?!?" when you call the organization's ownership group cheap.

There's always another year, and another plan, to look forward to while we wait for the definitive statement as to whether or not team owner Jerry Reinsdorf cares about the fortunes of the Chicago Bulls enough to spend a fortune on the team that has made him fortune after fortune even after the retirement of Michael Jordan.

There's always, "wait until the summer of 2000; because all the 1998 free agents re-signed with their own teams, the 1999 crew was junk and we just dealt Brent Barry for cap room that summer."

It's always, "wait until Tyson Chandler and Eddy Curry learn to play alongside each other, because Elton Brand was never going to be able to fit in there, and we're sure his looming contract extension had NOTHING to do with us trading him to Los Angeles."

It's always, "wait until 2006, when we'll blind you with Ben Wallace's signing before trading Tyson Chandler's eight-figure contract for an expiring deal — an 'asset' we'll never end up using in a trade because that would add salary."

It's always, "wait until 2010, LeBron James! Carlos Boozer!"

Now the team will try to sell 2013-14, even if it's really selling 2014-15, even if the team doesn't really buy anything in the summer of 2014 outside of locking up Taj Gibson as he enters his 30s, and retaining Deng if his battered body even makes it that long. While adding Mirotic on a, you guessed it, rookie contract. All while playing competitive basketball, winning just enough to keep you coming back.

I dont really see the Bulls failures to lure big fish as the result of some scheme to just keep fan interest high enough to sell tickets. They genuinely want the big fish they just dont have anyone with the gravitas to real them in. Hence why IMO if GarPax fall short yet again this summer I would like to see us elevate Thibs status to personnel decision making as well. I would like to see what he can do with the team.

Thats not so say the Bulls have not been cheap, just that the problem likely stems from wanting to play like a big market team but lacking the GM talent to see the vision through.

You and I agree on this.

[MAQ]

Or we might already have Lamarcus Aldridge

Or James Harden(When he was with OKC and I honestly think we could get him if we have trade Asik or Noah at the time.) But what do I know.

I really don't think anything we could have offered could trump Houston, I just don't think OKC would be willing to pay Asik 15 mil this year it was a cost savings move by OKC and they got exactly what the desired from Hou.


LMA I could see Portland having been willing to trade him for Noah

I think OKC jumps at a Noah and pick offer...Imagine if we add in Mirotic too.

[Michael Jackson]

Or James Harden(When he was with OKC and I honestly think we could get him if we have trade Asik or Noah at the time.) But what do I know.

I really don't think anything we could have offered could trump Houston, I just don't think OKC would be willing to pay Asik 15 mil this year it was a cost savings move by OKC and they got exactly what the desired from Hou.


LMA I could see Portland having been willing to trade him for Noah

I think OKC jumps at a Noah and pick offer...Imagine if we add in Mirotic too.

Maybe but salary runs OKC. Maybe I am wrong or they would have kept harden.

[AirP.]

Saw this on the reddit forums....

A lot of talk recently about Reinsdorf and if he's cheap, etc. Here are the facts. This is the Bulls Payroll Rankings vs. Other teams. Keep in mind the Bulls are in the biggest SINGLE team market in the NBA. It's a franchise that is worth the 3rd Most in the NBA (behind Knicks and Lakers).
1986: 9 out of 23
1987: No Data
1988: 19 out of 23
1989: 12 out of 25
1990: No Data
1991: 23 out of 27
1992: 3 out of 27
1993: 4 out of 27
1994: 12 out of 27
1995: 12 out of 27
1996: 15 out of 27
1997: 1 out of 29 -- by a WIDE margin
1998: 1 out of 29 -- again, by a WIDE margin
1999: 29 out of 29
2000: 28 out of 29
2001: 28 out of 29
2002: 27 out of 29
2003: 27 out of 29
2004: 16 out of 29
2005: 15 out of 30
2006: 19 out of 30
2007: 26 out of 30
2008: 21 out of 30
2009: 21 out of 30
2010: 13 out of 30
2011: 27 out of 30
2012: 10 out of 30
2013: 5 out of 30

http://www.reddit.com/r/chicagobulls/co ... reinsdorf/

[pduh01]

Or we might already have Lamarcus Aldridge

Or James Harden(When he was with OKC and I honestly think we could get him if we have trade Asik or Noah at the time.) But what do I know.

I really don't think anything we could have offered could trump Houston, I just don't think OKC would be willing to pay Asik 15 mil this year it was a cost savings move by OKC and they got exactly what the desired from Hou.

Maybe not take Asik 15 mil but I think they willing to take Noah's contract which is a friendly contract. Only problem now is the concern of Noah's health.

[organix85]

Saw this on the reddit forums....

A lot of talk recently about Reinsdorf and if he's cheap, etc. Here are the facts. This is the Bulls Payroll Rankings vs. Other teams. Keep in mind the Bulls are in the biggest SINGLE team market in the NBA. It's a franchise that is worth the 3rd Most in the NBA (behind Knicks and Lakers).
1986: 9 out of 23
1987: No Data
1988: 19 out of 23
1989: 12 out of 25
1990: No Data
1991: 23 out of 27
1992: 3 out of 27
1993: 4 out of 27
1994: 12 out of 27
1995: 12 out of 27
1996: 15 out of 27
1997: 1 out of 29 -- by a WIDE margin
1998: 1 out of 29 -- again, by a WIDE margin
1999: 29 out of 29
2000: 28 out of 29
2001: 28 out of 29
2002: 27 out of 29
2003: 27 out of 29
2004: 16 out of 29
2005: 15 out of 30
2006: 19 out of 30
2007: 26 out of 30
2008: 21 out of 30
2009: 21 out of 30
2010: 13 out of 30
2011: 27 out of 30
2012: 10 out of 30
2013: 5 out of 30

http://www.reddit.com/r/chicagobulls/co ... reinsdorf/

I'm too lazy to even attempt to check on it, but I wonder how accurate those figures are. It must not be too easy to find accurate past salary info. Anyway, I'm sure it is close enough. But with that being said, anything short of JR just coming out and saying he wants to pocket some major profits is going to have a slew of people defending him. Honestly, he must have been legitimately somewhat happy they put these extra restrictions on spending to give a more solid excuse not to spend. It sort of baffles me that people are really arguing Bill's statement. Does anyone around think that teams are like, "We have to really be on our game cause good ol' JR is gonna use his big market cash to outdo us."