2013-14 Player of the Year Discussion Thread

[JordansBulls]

...didn't...lose with...HCA?

Is it just me or is that arbitrary as hell?

How is it arbitrary? It shows you were the favorite to win the series. It's like if part of the requirement to get into a school is a 3.5 GPA.

[PaulieWal]

If, hypothetically (and it's still early to say this will happen), Miami and OKC are both eliminated in the conference finals, is there any chance either Lebron or KD fall out of the top 2? With, say, a Finals MVP, I might consider Paul George at #2. I might consider putting Duncan in my top 5.

No chance. Especially Timmy who is not even particularly close to my running as a top15 player. Hes has a dropoff compared to last season IMO
there are games i feel Splitter is the best defender on the Spurs and offensively Timmy relies alot on the creation of others and the Spurs system in the playoffs which makes him look alot better offensively than he really is.

I agree with this. While Duncan remains an impact player in limited minutes and is contributing to his team's success, I am more likely to put him in the 10-15 range than top 5. Duncan is one of my favorites and it's great to see his longevity and him remain a net positive player for his team but those Spurs are being carried by the entire team. There's no shame in that. He's 38 now. In his 20s and prime he was doing the same as a lot of the superstars today but he's not a top 5 player anymore.

[PaulieWal]

How is it arbitrary? It shows you were the favorite to win the series. It's like if part of the requirement to get into a school is a 3.5 GPA.

at that logic.

Within the top 3-4 seeds, HCA doesn't mean anything.

Players get injuries, older players get rested, some teams coast, and some play RS with higher intensity than everyone else etc.

[acrossthecourt]

...didn't...lose with...HCA?

Is it just me or is that arbitrary as hell?

How is it arbitrary? It shows you were the favorite to win the series. It's like if part of the requirement to get into a school is a 3.5 GPA.

You're acting like defending HCA advantage is like defending an army base. You don't lose the team if you lose with HCA. It doesn't actually mean anything.

Because of match-ups, bad luck in close games, injuries, etc. there are better teams in a series that don't have HCA, and sometimes the margins are so close the series is virtually a toss-up like Houston-Portland.

Let's be generous and say HCA is like 3.5 points as an advantage. Many series end in even games where both teams have played the same amount on their own courts, so it doesn't matter there. Then there are series where one team has gotten to play one more at home. So over the course of the series, that's 3.5 points spread over 7 games ... for a 0.5 point advantage per game. And that's only when they play an uneven amount of games.

Is that really how you want to rate players?

[HeartBreakKid]

You guys are beating a dead horse with Jordan. I've seen this discussion with him a million times.

[GSP]

Do you guys think Anthony Davis has a case for #10? Obviously very high chance of empty stats, but what he's done is pretty damn impressive. I wouldn't be surprised if he could out play someone like Harden in a playoff series.

Davis still makes alot of rookie mistakes. Ive been surprisingly much more impressed with how his offense already has been compared to his defense which isnt there. He has highlight plays but hes not a good for team defense at this point. There were even points when in the rs when Ryan Anderson was healthy i couldnt tell who the better player b/w them was. IMO he doesnt have a case to be in the top 10

[sp6r=underrated]

pre-emptive strike: Ibaka is about to get massively overrated by the G3 turnaround. Thunder outplayed the Spurs by the same margin with him on the bench.

Edit: in the final minutes SAS got a bunch of meaningless make up FTA but in the real game there was no difference between Ibaka on court and off.

[sp6r=underrated]

I would love to see a statistician do a study of fta in the final minutes of blowouts in which one team shot many more free throws than the opponent. It seems as if the calls swing to favor the team that hasn't shot many fta and they all of sudden get to the line a bunch.

I'm sure my mind is playing tricks on me but it feels as if this happens a lot.

[sp6r=underrated]

...didn't...lose with...HCA?

Is it just me or is that arbitrary as hell?

How is it arbitrary? It shows you were the favorite to win the series. It's like if part of the requirement to get into a school is a 3.5 GPA.

You're acting like defending HCA advantage is like defending an army base.

I gotta admit this line has me

[sp6r=underrated]

man gotta work until 8 pacific time on Tuesday. It is going to be brutal

[bondom34]

pre-emptive strike: Ibaka is about to get massively overrated by the G3 turnaround. Thunder outplayed the Spurs by the same margin with him on the bench.

Edit: in the final minutes SAS got a bunch of meaningless make up FTA but in the real game there was no difference between Ibaka on court and off.

In fairness though, you're not mentioning the fact that OKC gave up 20 less points in the paint in the game he returned. I have a hard time believing that big a discrepancy can be ignored.

Also, on the FTs, I don't know what to make of the late calls, but OKC was just more aggressive. The Spurs actually had fewer fould called on them than OKC, it was just a matter of where they were called. I was surprised even the TNT crew mentioned the FT discrepancy but said it wasn't an officiating issue.

[sp6r=underrated]

pre-emptive strike: Ibaka is about to get massively overrated by the G3 turnaround. Thunder outplayed the Spurs by the same margin with him on the bench.

Edit: in the final minutes SAS got a bunch of meaningless make up FTA but in the real game there was no difference between Ibaka on court and off.

In fairness though, you're not mentioning the fact that OKC gave up 20 less points in the paint in the game he returned. I have a hard time believing that big a discrepancy can be ignored.

How much is just random noise of players missing shots that they were hitting in G1 and G2? SAS outscored OKC by 35 points in G22. There was going to be a huge amount of regression regardless of who is on the court.

If Ibaka really has that large of an impact you're basically alleging he is a Bill Russell level defender. I don't think that is the case.

Also, on the FTs, I don't know what to make of the late calls, but OKC was just more aggressive. The Spurs actually had fewer fould called on them than OKC, it was just a matter of where they were called. I was surprised even the TNT crew mentioned the FT discrepancy but said it wasn't an officiating issue.

I actually wasn't trying to complain about the free throw disparity. I was just making the point that during the real game the margin was about the same with Ibaka on the bench as on the court. I am serious about a study though on FTA at the end of blowouts in which one team shot way less ft. It does seem like, and my mind is likely playing tricks on me, that teams suddenly flip as to who is going to the line. In that sense, I am actually arguing the refs favored SAS.

I really don't have that much of an issue with the officiating in the game save the ridiculous Patty Mills 3 point shot and the Adams on Duncan back. The later was a foul based on how they were calling the game on the OKC end. The Patty Mills calls was a joke and if you watch a gif you can clearly see the ref waited until after the shot went in before making the call. If you're going to call a BS foul you should call it regardless of whether it is a miss or a hit. That wasn't a foul. Anyway two bad calls in a game isn't a big deal.

[bondom34]

How much is just random noise of players missing shots that they were hitting in G1 and G2? SAS outscored OKC by 35 points in G22. There was going to be a huge amount of regression regardless of who is on the court.

If Ibaka really has that large of an impact you're basically alleging he is a Bill Russell level defender. I don't think that is the case.

No, certainly not saying that! I just think that there were some who said his absence would be a blessing in disguise for the Thunder and Collison could have the same impact defensively. I don't think he means a 20 point swing, but at the same time I have a hard time saying you can just toss that entire amount out the window as guys missing shots. Its somewhere in between the two.

I actually wasn't trying to complain about the free throw disparity. I was just making the point that during the real game the margin was about the same with Ibaka on the bench as on the court. I am serious about a study though on FTA at the end of blowouts in which one team shot way less ft. It does seem like, and my mind is likely playing tricks on me, that teams suddenly flip as to who is going to the line. In that sense, I am actually arguing the refs favored SAS.

I really don't have that much of an issue with the officiating in the game save the ridiculous Patty Mills 3 point shot and the Adams on Duncan back. The later was a foul based on how they were calling the game on the OKC end. The Patty Mills calls was a joke and if you watch a gif you can clearly see the ref waited until after the shot went in before making the call. If you're going to call a BS foul you should call it regardless of whether it is a miss or a hit. That wasn't a foul. Anyway two bad calls in a game isn't a big deal.

I kinda didn't think you were, but of course the gen board bashing has already started . I'll gladly admit there were a few ticky tack calls, but there were a few on OKC too (WB's tech was iffy to me, and Perk had a few minor fouls). That would be an interesting study idea though, and I'd wonder if anyone on APBR has done it. Do you post there, if so I'd say bring it up, if not, maybe I will.

[sp6r=underrated]

No I don't post on APBR. I do think it would be interesting to look at. It is probably not true but I would love to see a study on it.

[PaulieWal]

man gotta work until 8 pacific time on Tuesday. It is going to be brutal

Do you mean 8 AM or PM?

[sp6r=underrated]

man gotta work until 8 pacific time on Tuesday. It is going to be brutal

Do you mean 8 AM or PM?

PM. It is a total waste of time. My boss does everything at the last minute.

[PaulieWal]

man gotta work until 8 pacific time on Tuesday. It is going to be brutal

Do you mean 8 AM or PM?

PM. It is a total waste of time. My boss does everything at the last minute.

If I am reading this right you are going to from tomorrow morning until 8pm on Tuesday?

[sp6r=underrated]

If I am reading this right you are going to from tomorrow morning until 8pm on Tuesday?

oh no, I'm not a resident. I was talking about missing the WCF.

[PaulieWal]

If I am reading this right you are going to from tomorrow morning until 8pm on Tuesday?

oh no, I'm not a resident. I was talking about missing the WCF.

Ah, I see. So you will be able to watch the Miami-Pacers game?

[sp6r=underrated]

If I am reading this right you are going to from tomorrow morning until 8pm on Tuesday?

oh no, I'm not a resident. I was talking about missing the WCF.

Ah, I see. So you will be able to watch the Miami-Pacers game?

I've already notified my couch it will be literally putting up with my ass on Monday Night.