Gasol

[crazyeights]

We'll see what the open market provides for Pau, but if a team can't see what you saw 17 and 10 in 30 minutes, and risk a 2nd year, then sure, great, absolutely sign him to 8 m for one year--I just think that's too good to be true. Frankly, I'd be surprised if he signed a deal for less than 10 M with any team, and I'd be flabbergasted if he signed for just one year--even with Miami.

Also, just to clarify, my use of compete wasn't to say we'd contend. To me, contending is being a top tier team only. I do think it's important that we simply get back to making the playoffs next year, making the vibe in LA much more accommodating to FAs. (Also, I'm not saying that we should ruin our chance at top flight talent in 2015 just to be a high functioning loser [first round exit], but there is a middle ground we can hit.)

I get your point about Kwame their Gasols, but isn't tviper arguing we should sign a FA this offseason in an attempt to help build toward a championship team? Meaning: yes, we need a Gasol, but we also had Kobe Bryant, Lamar Odom, (injured AB), and a bench mob at the ready. To me we were one piece away for years, and then we took our shot with Gasol. To say we merely punt and just sign Gasol for a season doesn't really compare to our last rebuild, IMO.

This is really the least complete Lakers team I've ever seen. Even our star player, at top dollar no-less, is an unknown quantity. Back in 2008 we at least had a prime Kobe Bryant, definitive A-1 option...now if we're lucky he's maybe a vastly overpaid 2nd tier player....

Ugh, I don't even want to think about how many assets we're going to need just to return to respectability. Mitch and Jimmy are gonna need more wands.

[milesfides]

Well, that's the fundamental difference between our philosophies, and why there's different approaches to management. For me, I would build a championship only with the very best players.

I think respectability just depends on the fleeting present. Clippers were a joke until Paul and Griffin got there, now they're hot and attracting free agents.

I'm simply endorsing discipline. First of all Kobe still hasn't proven that he's healthy. So what's the point of bringing in supporting talent when we don't even know we have a functioning alpha?

If I can't get Lebron, Durant, Anthony Davis, Kyrie, Love, etc. right now, then I would be in holding position. I would absolutely not assume that Kobe's healthy and bring in betas and bank on a slugger's chance, and fill up our capspace.

That's the point of a one-year with Gasol. The idea behind it is to develop an asset (something we lack) rather than saddle ourselves with betas. Like you said, we don't have a lot of assets. Pau, to me, is an overlooked/undervalued asset that people are simply dismissing. Don't build around him, no, but we can hold on to him to flip him for something good.

These are all opinions of course.

I posted a couple years ago that we should tank. That was a pretty long thread, people throwing purple/gold in my face and my pointing at the new cba rules. We can play dirty too, and my problem is the Lakers aren't.

Speaking of the Jazz, I love their moves the past few years. They are NOT messing around, they are playing to win. Lost in the shouting match with Sloan, they traded Deron because they had no firm commitment that he would re-sign with them (something that Mitch and Jim could learn from). They have no sacred cows. No kobe beef.

Most importantly, they were willing to let pretty good players (Jefferson, Milsap) walk, because they're going for gold.

Now they have two good prospects in Favors and Hayward whom they're slow-playing. Let them earn it - or let them walk. Meanwhile, they're parking bad expiring contracts for picks and assets.

Utah is going to be a pretty badass team in the future based on their cold, ruthless discipline. Their approach to the game is going all-in at the right time and get everybody by the nuts.

Jerry Buss would be proud.

[hazy_01]

SnT Pau to Thunder for Perkins, their 2014 first rounders and maybe other prospects, it makes sense in so many levels.

1. The Thunder are a contender team and they need to win now with Durant and Westbrook's contracts coming to an end sooner than later
2. Under the lux tax
3. They need a reliable, consistent third-scoring option
4. They need a offensive post presence
5. Ibaka will fill in Pau's defensive deficiencies.
6. Pau will be a great mentor to Steven Adams

The downside is that this will possibly make Thunder champions for the next few years but I'm more of a long-term person so I would take the their 2014 first rounders and other assets rather than lose Pau for nothing

for that late of a pick, might as well see if you can try and buy one 1st before opting this route. I would never want to see that gargoyle wearing a laker uni.

They have Mavs pick which is 21st and their own 29th pick. So I would demand both and that is what Gasol will cost for Thunder to complete the SnT imo (they don't have leverage). Ideally I would package the 21st and 29th to go up a few slots. They also have some interesting prospects in Perry Jones and Andre Roberson which neither will see any playing time if they remain with Thunder so I think they are willing to give one of those guys up as well.

As for Perkins, it is irrelevant since he is an expiring but if you are talking about increasing our cap space this year then I see your point.

[dockingsched]

Well, that's the fundamental difference between our philosophies, and why there's different approaches to management. For me, I would build a championship only with the very best players.

I think respectability just depends on the fleeting present. Clippers were a joke until Paul and Griffin got there, now they're hot and attracting free agents.

I'm simply endorsing discipline. First of all Kobe still hasn't proven that he's healthy. So what's the point of bringing in supporting talent when we don't even know we have a functioning alpha?

If I can't get Lebron, Durant, Anthony Davis, Kyrie, Love, etc. right now, then I would be in holding position. I would absolutely not assume that Kobe's healthy and bring in betas and bank on a slugger's chance, and fill up our capspace.

That's the point of a one-year with Gasol. The idea behind it is to develop an asset (something we lack) rather than saddle ourselves with betas. Like you said, we don't have a lot of assets. Pau, to me, is an overlooked/undervalued asset that people are simply dismissing. Don't build around him, no, but we can hold on to him to flip him for something good.

These are all opinions of course.

I posted a couple years ago that we should tank. That was a pretty long thread, people throwing purple/gold in my face and my pointing at the new cba rules. We can play dirty too, and my problem is the Lakers aren't.

Speaking of the Jazz, I love their moves the past few years. They are NOT messing around, they are playing to win. Lost in the shouting match with Sloan, they traded Deron because they had no firm commitment that he would re-sign with them (something that Mitch and Jim could learn from). They have no sacred cows. No kobe beef.

Most importantly, they were willing to let pretty good players (Jefferson, Milsap) walk, because they're going for gold.

Now they have two good prospects in Favors and Hayward whom they're slow-playing. Let them earn it - or let them walk. Meanwhile, they're parking bad expiring contracts for picks and assets.

Utah is going to be a pretty badass team in the future based on their cold, ruthless discipline. Their approach to the game is going all-in at the right time and get everybody by the nuts.

Jerry Buss would be proud.

i like everything about this post, just can't see pau signing a one yr deal. i would be totally shocked if pau wanted to voluntarily put himself in that one yr holding pattern again. he should just sign a one yr MLE deal with a contender if thats the case where he can contend and increase his value on a playoff stage of his choice.

[Slava]

If we were to go the Utah route and be ruthless while leaving no room for sentiment we'd have amnestied Kobe, retained Dwight and right now be sitting on reams of cap space, ready to use the stretch on Nash as soon as we get a verbal confirmation from either Lebron or Melo.

That would have made me proud not just Jerry Buss.

[Slava]

Well it's not exactly up to the Knicks to "lose melo for nothing" - melo can just walk like Howard did. Lakers got nothing back when Howard walked.

Then what? Would it really be a stretch that the lakers send gasol to a diff conference...to the executive who values him the most, who had enough faith even in lamar odom. I think the point behind that is what Phil is trying to do, and rumors or Kerr, shaw, fisher all have one thing in common: he wants them to run the triangle and instill his philosophy.

And come on guys. Pau put up 17 and 10 in 30 min. Washed up?

If the Knicks lose Melo, they have a pick comping up in this draft and all they'd want to do is take as little salary as possible and bottom out to get a good player, play the free agency game when all their bad contracts come off the books in 2015. Adding Pau accomplishes neither of those purposes.

[LApwnd]

SnT Pau to Thunder for Perkins, their 2014 first rounders and maybe other prospects, it makes sense in so many levels.

1. The Thunder are a contender team and they need to win now with Durant and Westbrook's contracts coming to an end sooner than later
2. Under the lux tax
3. They need a reliable, consistent third-scoring option
4. They need a offensive post presence
5. Ibaka will fill in Pau's defensive deficiencies.
6. Pau will be a great mentor to Steven Adams

The downside is that this will possibly make Thunder champions for the next few years but I'm more of a long-term person so I would take the their 2014 first rounders and other assets rather than lose Pau for nothing

for that late of a pick, might as well see if you can try and buy one 1st before opting this route. I would never want to see that gargoyle wearing a laker uni.

They have Mavs pick which is 21st and their own 29th pick. So I would demand both and that is what Gasol will cost for Thunder to complete the SnT imo (they don't have leverage). Ideally I would package the 21st and 29th to go up a few slots. They also have some interesting prospects in Perry Jones and Andre Roberson which neither will see any playing time if they remain with Thunder so I think they are willing to give one of those guys up as well.

As for Perkins, it is irrelevant since he is an expiring but if you are talking about increasing our cap space this year then I see your point.

no I dont mind Perkins contract if we did get both picks I thought you were just referring to 1 but I doubt OKC gives up both. My gripe is with seeing Perkins in a laker uni in general. It would be hard for me to watch game seeing his permanent frown face on a regular basis.

[Kilroy]

If we were to go the Utah route and be ruthless while leaving no room for sentiment we'd have amnestied Kobe, retained Dwight and right now be sitting on reams of cap space, ready to use the stretch on Nash as soon as we get a verbal confirmation from either Lebron or Melo.

That would have made me proud not just Jerry Buss.

Ok, let me try that one on for size...

Our only player right now is Dwight... We recently amnestied Kobe... We have told Pau he won't be back, and are working with Nash's people to convince him to retire...

Kobe's been on every major form of media airing dirty laundry about the org... We have no Coach because Dwight doesn't know what he wants...

And we're waiting for Melo to decide if he want's to come to LA... Meanwhile Kobe has told Phil and Melo, he'll play for NY for the Vet min...

Did I mention Dwight Howard is our only player?

.....
.....

No, I can't do it... Going to down a half a bottle of Prosac now and wash it down with a bottle of Ripple...

[Slava]

If we were to go the Utah route and be ruthless while leaving no room for sentiment we'd have amnestied Kobe, retained Dwight and right now be sitting on reams of cap space, ready to use the stretch on Nash as soon as we get a verbal confirmation from either Lebron or Melo.

That would have made me proud not just Jerry Buss.

Ok, let me try that one on for size...

Our only player right now is Dwight... We recently amnestied Kobe... We have told Pau he won't be back, and are working with Nash's people to convince him to retire...

Kobe's been on every major form of media airing dirty laundry about the org... We have no Coach because Dwight doesn't know what he wants...

And we're waiting for Melo to decide if he want's to come to LA... Meanwhile Kobe has told Phil he'll play for NY for the Vet min...

Did I mention Dwight Howard is our only player?

.....
.....

No, I can't do it... Going to down a half a bottle of Prosac now and wash it down with a bottle of Ripple...

Is that a problem?

If Kobe wants to carry his broken achilles around on a media tour and bad mouth the organization for not carrying his $30 million in cap space then he can do that by all means and get laughed at by any prgamatist.

[Kilroy]

Yes it's a problem... As much as the media is giggling at Kobe's contract, they would absolutely be murdering us if we amnestied him... I think it might even make it harder for us to lure free agents.
You can bet Kobe would be talking long and hard about how inept Jim and Jeanie are and how much of a puppet Mitch is... We'd end up looking like a sinking ship and I bet FAs would think long and hard about coming here.

But as annoying as that would be, more critical would be having Dwight Howard as our only piece of the puzzle... Ignoring the fact that he left money on the table to go to a team with a better win now potential, and that he probably still wouldn't have signed here if we got rid of Kobe...
Dwight has proven that he needs at least 2 other solid players around him to win... And he's shown also that until the playoffs really, he wasn't 100% and still isn't nearly the player he was before. He's also selfish and a headcase... And he seems to blame his team mates, org and coaching staff when he under-performs...

That's not a recipe for a team top free agents would want to play for/with...

But worse than that, we'd have to sit around and watch it all happen... You think there's uncertainty now...
That'd be a guarantee...
A guarantee of failure...

But dat cap-space tho...

I get where you're coming from Slava... But no.

[Slava]

I see you are glass half empty person.

[Kilroy]

Joking aside... I think the only real problem with retaining Kobe is his contract... I'd have liked if he'd have signed a more reasonable contract, but I also think it wasn't as far above market value as a lot of people think it was... And I think the difference wouldn't have mattered that much to our cap situation, whereas I think the psychological aspect of making him 'The Highest Paid Player" might actually turn out to be worth it...

The other problem is Nash's contract, which was always going to be a gamble at his age, but I think it was a solid one... And I doubt he plays this year anyway so maybe it'll end up being a non issue.
Maybe he learned something about the frailty of his legacy with that "I want the Money" flap...

And our Coaching situation... Which I go back and forth on... On the one hand, I don't know how you pass up Phil for MDA on any conceptual level, other than you'd already gone essentially all-in on Nash... On the other hand, once that decision was made, the rest were inevitable... IMO.

[Kilroy]

I see you are glass half empty person.

I see you're a "The imaginary glass in my head is full of rainbows and moonbeams" person...

[Slava]

Hey if he comes back and gives us 25/5/5 at 55% + TS with 22+ PER, I won't say another word about his contract ever. That'd still be the best SG In the league.

[Kilroy]

I hear you... And I agree that that's not likely... But I also think he doesn't have to be the best SG in the league to justify his contract... There are and have been plenty of highest paid in their position players who weren't the best players in their position, that weren't picked on about their contract.

Not going to naively say it's not always going to be an issue for Kobe for the rest of his career... But I just don't think it's as bad as a lot of people are saying either.