Official Trade Thread - Part XXVII

[Rafael122]

You may not like Kevin Martin, which is understandable considering his lack of defensive effort though his offense is still pretty outstanding, but . . . the TWolves don't want him if they get Beal. He would be a short term rental here like he was in OKC most likely.

His contract is awful, but it's probably something any team trading for Love would have to take on.

[Youheardme90]

I think the key in any Kevin Love trade is to make sure your people get his people to apply pressure in the Timberwolves organization. If Love can artificially deflate his own trade value, that's better for him in the long term.

That`s the only way it makes sense for us. Giving up Beal is giving up too much and while Kevin Love would certainly add to the team with Shooting and Rebounding we will lose a lot of perimeter and inside defense.

Convince me, why would do we need to overextend ourselves for a player that I don`t think in is his current form will put us over the top, especially if we give up Beal.

[MDStar]

My latest:

Washington Trades:

SF Trevor Ariza (S&T) - 4 Years (8.5 Mil Per)

Memphis Trades:

SF Tayshaun Prince - 1 Year (7.7 Mil)
2014 1st Round Pick - 22nd Overall

Why? The Wizard pick up a 1st round draft pick to replace the one that was traded for Gortat, as well as create space for Porter and Webster to man the small forward spot. The pick can be used to pick up a young talented big man or be used as an additional asset in a Kevin Love Trade. For the Grizzles it's simple, upgrade the small forward position that was held by Tayshaun Prince and Mike Miller both on the last legs of their career. All the mock drafts have them taking a SF, but i believe Ariza would be a perfect fit for the inside outside game of Memphis.

[Illuminaire]

Hmmm. I don't think I like that in a vacuum. Ariza is a very productive player. Even Ariza four years from now has a very strong chance of being more productive than the best player the Wizards could get at 22 in the draft. (Most players in that range top out as solid backups or fringe starters. It is very rare to get an above average starting caliber player outside of the lottery. I have no faith that the current front office could manage that with a late 1st round pick.)

That really only makes sense if the Wiz have other pans on the fire and need to clear capspace for next season while staying relatively competitive this season. But the effectiveness of moving Ariza depends entirely on what you can do with the cap space generated by the salary difference, or the pick as an asset - not what the late draftee will do on the court.

[fishercob]

He is my Morris Almond.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9pv5hod7RY[/youtube]

[dangermouse]

I think i'd want more for Ariza in a s&t, I think if we were to shop him we could get a better deal somewhere else. Shopping Webster or Ariza for additional depth or trade pieces is imperative this off season.

[Hidden Eye]

If Ariza does leave Wiz Hayward would be another person they should target for the 3 position if they could work it out.

[deneem4]

If Ariza does leave Wiz Hayward would be another person they should target for the 3 position if they could work it out.

We could be a dominant team with hayward but then we most likely won't be able to sign gortat

[NbdyBeatsTheWiz]

Agreed. Adding Beal to the deal will be a mistake. I have a feeling Ernie would pull the trigger though, even without assurances that Love would stay.

No he wouldn't. After years and years and years of futility the Wizards are finally winning. I'm willing to bet he's terrified to do anything but sit on his hands, possibly sign Ariza and Gortat, and return with what we've got.

[verbal8]

Hmmm. I don't think I like that in a vacuum. Ariza is a very productive player. Even Ariza four years from now has a very strong chance of being more productive than the best player the Wizards could get at 22 in the draft. (Most players in that range top out as solid backups or fringe starters. It is very rare to get an above average starting caliber player outside of the lottery. I have no faith that the current front office could manage that with a late 1st round pick.)

That really only makes sense if the Wiz have other pans on the fire and need to clear capspace for next season while staying relatively competitive this season. But the effectiveness of moving Ariza depends entirely on what you can do with the cap space generated by the salary difference, or the pick as an asset - not what the late draftee will do on the court.

There are a few players in that range that look intriguing.

Kristaps Porzingis and Adreian Payne other than being long post players they are complete opposites. Payne is 23 and fairly well developed and a stretch-4. Kristaps Porzingis is very raw, but will be only 19. Kyle Anderson wouldn't do anything to alliviate the log-jam at SF but he is an intriguing possibility. Hairston might be a good 6th man option, but has some risk.

[pancakes3]

With all the Love talk, what about a run at a Love-a-like Spencer Hawes?

[Hidden Eye]

If Ariza does leave Wiz Hayward would be another person they should target for the 3 position if they could work it out.

We could be a dominant team with hayward but then we most likely won't be able to sign gortat

That's not necessarily true depends who the wiz move Webster and Nene would have to go to free up space since he would want 3-4 year contract most likely imo here.

[payitforward]

Hmmm. I don't think I like that in a vacuum. Ariza is a very productive player. Even Ariza four years from now has a very strong chance of being more productive than the best player the Wizards could get at 22 in the draft. (Most players in that range top out as solid backups or fringe starters. It is very rare to get an above average starting caliber player outside of the lottery. I have no faith that the current front office could manage that with a late 1st round pick.)

That really only makes sense if the Wiz have other pans on the fire and need to clear capspace for next season while staying relatively competitive this season. But the effectiveness of moving Ariza depends entirely on what you can do with the cap space generated by the salary difference, or the pick as an asset - not what the late draftee will do on the court.

The only reason to do this would be if we weren't planning to keep Ariza. You postpone the cap space a year, but the payback is a R1 pick. That seems an ok idea.

But in that case, certainly the value of the trade would depend on what the #22 guy did on the court (the better a player he turns out to be, the better trade).

But, it seems likely we are planning to keep Ariza, doesn't it? And you are right that it'd be hard to replace Ariza's productivity for $8.5m (tho I doubt Ariza is going to sign for $8.5m).

[floppymoose]

I think i'd want more for Ariza in a s&t, I think if we were to shop him we could get a better deal somewhere else. Shopping Webster or Ariza for additional depth or trade pieces is imperative this off season.

I'm curious about whether the Wizards want to keep Ariza, or use him to acquire a cheaper/younger asset.

For instance, would the Wizards be interested in a sign-and-trade of Ariza to GSW for Barnes and Nedovic?

Nedovic is trash and is just there for salary purposes. Wizards would presumably decline to pick up his option at the end of next season. Barnes would be the fee the Wizards charge for helping the Warriors sign Ariza. But of course that only works if the Wizards want to shift salary from SF to somewhere else, as I won't pretend Barnes is near Ariza now, and maybe ever. For the Warriors it's obviously a win-now move and is the kind of thing they might want to do if they lose Klay Thompson in a Love trade.

[payitforward]

If Ariza does leave Wiz Hayward would be another person they should target for the 3 position if they could work it out.

We could be a dominant team with hayward but then we most likely won't be able to sign gortat

That's not necessarily true depends who the wiz move Webster and Nene would have to go to free up space since he would want 3-4 year contract most likely imo here.

You guys think Hayward is as productive as Ariza? Wow. I'm glad you aren't picking players. I don't even think Ernie could be quite that off-base.

[penbeast0]

My problem with Ariza is that he had a big year with LA and got a nice long term deal out of it with Houston.

Then, for the next 4 years he was hot garbage . . .under .500 ts%, not as active on the boards, still good defense but not as consistent. Last year for us he improved but Webster actually looked better, then this year . . . another contract year, he was back to the player he last was in 07-09, shooting well, active on the boards, in the game mentally all the time, a very good player.

If I had to guess, however, I would guess he is more likely to return to the poor form he showed in Houston and New Orleans than maintain what he did this year. He's only 28 so there aren't any real age issues but I'd be very hesitant to give him a long-term deal or rely on him to match this year's numbers.

I understand Nate thinks it is John Wall's playmaking but I'm more hesitant and actually trust Webster more moving into next year (and, of course, hope Porter turns them both into 10 mpg players).

[Illuminaire]

My problem with Ariza is that he had a big year with LA and got a nice long term deal out of it with Houston.

Then, for the next 4 years he was hot garbage . . .under .500 ts%, not as active on the boards, still good defense but not as consistent. Last year for us he improved but Webster actually looked better, then this year . . . another contract year, he was back to the player he last was in 07-09, shooting well, active on the boards, in the game mentally all the time, a very good player.

If I had to guess, however, I would guess he is more likely to return to the poor form he showed in Houston and New Orleans than maintain what he did this year. He's only 28 so there aren't any real age issues but I'd be very hesitant to give him a long-term deal or rely on him to match this year's numbers.

I understand Nate thinks it is John Wall's playmaking but I'm more hesitant and actually trust Webster more moving into next year (and, of course, hope Porter turns them both into 10 mpg players).

Webster has a significant injury history. Why do you trust him to stay healthy enough to perform like he did two years ago? He hasn't been able to during any other year of his entire career.

Ariza did drop in production after his first big contract. He was also put into a different role - an offensive initiator rather than role player - and he responded by trying to do too much. From how he's played the last two years, I feel confident that he has matured as a player (he doesn't take the crappy off the dribble shots any more, and his effort is more consistent on both ends), and he is in the right kind of situation. Ariza should be a good starter for several years to come.

I agree on the hope about Porter

[pcbothwel]

We could be a dominant team with hayward but then we most likely won't be able to sign gortat

That's not necessarily true depends who the wiz move Webster and Nene would have to go to free up space since he would want 3-4 year contract most likely imo here.

You guys think Hayward is as productive as Ariza? Wow. I'm glad you aren't picking players. I don't even think Ernie could be quite that off-base.

Im fairly neutral on Hayward, but saying "Wow" to the assertion that Hayward is better is a strange reaction. Besides being 5 years younger, Hayward averages more points, twice as many assists, the same amount of steals. He is a better 3pt shooter, but last year his % dropped to 30% and Ariza was at 40%. Id wager almost anything that Ariza will never again duplicate an average that high and Hayward that low. Hayward also has to do much more creating for himself and others while Ariza had Wall feeding him threes.

[Illmatic12]

We could be a dominant team with hayward but then we most likely won't be able to sign gortat

That's not necessarily true depends who the wiz move Webster and Nene would have to go to free up space since he would want 3-4 year contract most likely imo here.

You guys think Hayward is as productive as Ariza? Wow. I'm glad you aren't picking players. I don't even think Ernie could be quite that off-base.

Hayward is clearly a more skilled and versatile offensive player than Ariza, and though he'd be a drop off defensively he isn't a bad defender at all.

He looked bad this past year because he was a #3 option forced into being a #1 (similar to Ariza's year in Houston when he was overwhelmed by his role and looked awful). I'm sure Hayward would be much better than Ariza here as a 3rd option.

[verbal8]

That's not necessarily true depends who the wiz move Webster and Nene would have to go to free up space since he would want 3-4 year contract most likely imo here.

You guys think Hayward is as productive as Ariza? Wow. I'm glad you aren't picking players. I don't even think Ernie could be quite that off-base.

Hayward is clearly a more skilled and versatile offensive player than Ariza, and though he'd be a drop off defensively he isn't a bad defender at all.

He looked bad this past year because he was a #3 option forced into being a #1 (similar to Ariza's year in Houston when he was overwhelmed by his role and looked awful). I'm sure Hayward would be much better than Ariza here as a 3rd option.

I think the Hayward/Ariza comparison isn't too far off from the Gortat/Monroe comparison. Right now the older player is somewhat better, but the Wizards have their bird rights and they will be presumable cheaper to sign long term.