Simmons: Reinsdorf Runs Bulls Like Small Market Team

[DanTown8587]

So your position is that if he doesn''t spend a bunch of money, just because he is in a big market, regardless of whether there is anyone worth spending that money on who would make the team better, than he is operating like a small market owner. See the New York Knicks.

When he's so unwilling to go into the luxury tax that he won't do it to essentially get a top-10-20ish player in his prime for damn near free (except for the money, of course), yeah, he's a small market owner.

So Memphis wanted to save money yet wouldn't take the basically expiring Brewer and two firsts for Mayo because...

Because Brewer wasn't expiring, that's why.

He was expiring, he was on a non-guaranteed contract that was 100% not guaranteed for the next year meaning Memphis could cut him at the end of the year.

[organix85]

I also want to point out that Heisley is the same owner who turned down two firsts and Brewer for Mayo to watch Mayo walk a year later. And my god does Heisley hate JR. And Heisley is the idiot who sold his team a year too early.

To be fair, the Bulls offer wasn't really that amazing. The Grizzlies were very clear that they wanted a big man for their playoff run and we offered them a SG that they had just cut the prior season. Why would Chicago think Memphis would really want the guy they just let go?

Salary filler?

But they were a playoff team stacked at the guard position... they wanted a big.

[Rerisen]

You're shocked that Paxson publicly said the deal was about not wanting to give up Deng and not that JR wasn't going to spend to get a player like Gasol? Really?

No I'm not, but I'm also remembering what Memphis wanted at the time. The quote is above, where Heisley talks about us refusing to put in any core piece. This was still 07, he didn't get traded till a year later and the price fell as he was going to be lost if they didn't move him.

[DanTown8587]

You're shocked that Paxson publicly said the deal was about not wanting to give up Deng and not that JR wasn't going to spend to get a player like Gasol? Really?

No I'm not, but I'm also remembering what Memphis wanted at the time. The quote is above, where Heisley talks about us refusing to put in any core piece. This was still 07, he didn't get traded till a year later and the price fell as he was going to be lost if they didn't move him.

So you're saying that Tyrus Thomas didn't have high trade value (nor the Knicks pick swap) to get the deal done? BG didn't?

Bulls could have offered Noah, Thomas, and signed PJ to expire in 2008 and didn't do it. Why? Tax.

[DanTown8587]

To be fair, the Bulls offer wasn't really that amazing. The Grizzlies were very clear that they wanted a big man for their playoff run and we offered them a SG that they had just cut the prior season. Why would Chicago think Memphis would really want the guy they just let go?

Salary filler?

But they were a playoff team stacked at the guard position... they wanted a big.

Then trade a first for a big and keep a first. They didn't end up trading Mayo so yeah...

[Leslie Forman]

He was expiring, he was on a non-guaranteed contract that was 100% not guaranteed for the next year meaning Memphis could cut him at the end of the year.

You have your timelines wrong. Mayo was about to be traded during the 2010-11 trade deadline, Brewer was guaranteed through 2011-12.

[organix85]

Salary filler?

But they were a playoff team stacked at the guard position... they wanted a big.

Then trade a first for a big and keep a first. They didn't end up trading Mayo so yeah...

That's actually exactly what they did... they had the offer for McBob and a first but didn't get it done in time.

[Rerisen]

So you're saying that Tyrus Thomas didn't have high trade value (nor the Knicks pick swap) to get the deal done? BG didn't?

Bulls could have offered Noah, Thomas, and signed PJ to expire in 2008 and didn't do it. Why? Tax.

I'm with you that money was a big part of it.

[DanTown8587]

He was expiring, he was on a non-guaranteed contract that was 100% not guaranteed for the next year meaning Memphis could cut him at the end of the year.

You have your timelines wrong. Mayo was about to be traded during the 2010-11 trade deadline, Brewer was guaranteed through 2011-12.

The time the Bulls offered Brewer + 2 firsts was 2012 and not 2011.

[Leslie Forman]

The time the Bulls offered Brewer + 2 firsts was 2012 and not 2011.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2011-02-24/sports/ct-spt-0225-trade-bulls-heat-chicago-20110224_1_bulls-move-gar-forman-grizzlies

[Rerisen]

I actually don't recall us being involved in the Gasol chatter in 08 virtually at all. I think Heisley had already sworn off doing business with us due to the 2007 negotiations.

So that regardless if we still had pieces that year, we had blown it.

[DanTown8587]

The time the Bulls offered Brewer + 2 firsts was 2012 and not 2011.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2011-02-24/sports/ct-spt-0225-trade-bulls-heat-chicago-20110224_1_bulls-move-gar-forman-grizzlies

My mistake on the years.

[RedBulls23]

I actually don't recall us being involved in the Gasol chatter in 08 virtually at all. I think Heisley had already sworn off doing business with us due to the 2007 negotiations.

So that regardless if we still had pieces that year, we had blown it.

I think we were. Memphis wanted us to resign PJ Brown for a 3 year contract with a team option after the 1st year, and then add an asset or two, but JR wasn't willing to pay the tax and called the trade off. After that, Heisley went out and took a public shot at JR and the org saying the Bulls didn't want to give up any assets (or draft picks) in a trade.

I remember Gasol even saying that he was surprised that he didn't get traded to the Bulls.

[Trm3]

Sorry, but you do realize that when your point doesn't make sense you just saying "it wasn't that difficult" doesn't change things. Deng was traded because they wouldn't pay him. And rightfully so. Gibson will be traded if it means they can get Melo or another star, and rightfully so. Nate is not a good NBA player and MDJ was an upgrade. I do miss Korver, but Thibs had no clue how to use him...because he isn't a dribble-scoring PG.

The argument has gone from the Bulls being a small market team (meaning they don't spend money), to examples of them spending money being dismissed as "we only pay our own" (which effectively negates the first argument of them being a small market team)...and that argument being based on them not paying Nate (they couldn't have even if they wanted to), Korver, and the assumption they won't pay DJ (they probably won't, but only because they make a major move).

I have no doubt the Bulls will spend money on a player they think can get them over the hump, just like they did when they spent money on boozer and Korver and built the team that would have been the only real challenge to the Heat on an annual basis.

The Bulls problem is the 20 mil sitting on the sidelines not playing. Not that they are unwilling to spend money.

If you think Nate, Kyle or DJ being let go is the reason Rose blew out his knees; or that any player personnel issues are the reason Rose blew out his knees... well, that is just way out there.

That's the problem..we are unwilling..if that player may put us into the luxury tax..we aren't doing it. JR and the Bulls want to make a profit. Until they prove me otherwise, I'm sticken to the "They're cheap" label.

[Stratmaster]

Sorry, but you do realize that when your point doesn't make sense you just saying "it wasn't that difficult" doesn't change things. Deng was traded because they wouldn't pay him. And rightfully so. Gibson will be traded if it means they can get Melo or another star, and rightfully so. Nate is not a good NBA player and MDJ was an upgrade. I do miss Korver, but Thibs had no clue how to use him...because he isn't a dribble-scoring PG.

The argument has gone from the Bulls being a small market team (meaning they don't spend money), to examples of them spending money being dismissed as "we only pay our own" (which effectively negates the first argument of them being a small market team)...and that argument being based on them not paying Nate (they couldn't have even if they wanted to), Korver, and the assumption they won't pay DJ (they probably won't, but only because they make a major move).

I have no doubt the Bulls will spend money on a player they think can get them over the hump, just like they did when they spent money on boozer and Korver and built the team that would have been the only real challenge to the Heat on an annual basis.

The Bulls problem is the 20 mil sitting on the sidelines not playing. Not that they are unwilling to spend money.

If you think Nate, Kyle or DJ being let go is the reason Rose blew out his knees; or that any player personnel issues are the reason Rose blew out his knees... well, that is just way out there.

That's the problem..we are unwilling..if that player may put us into the luxury tax..we aren't doing it. JR and the Bulls want to make a profit. Until they prove me otherwise, I'm sticken to the "They're cheap" label.

Of course they want to make a profit. Geesh anyone who buys a business and doesn't try to make a profit is a moron. Let me guess, you hate your money and look for ways to lose it wherever possible? The Bulls have made relatively smart decisions in spending their money and their success proves it. the only questionable thing was paying any one guy 20 million, because when he ends up not playing it kind of screws you. But that is the NBA world we live in.

[Trm3]

Sorry, but you do realize that when your point doesn't make sense you just saying "it wasn't that difficult" doesn't change things. Deng was traded because they wouldn't pay him. And rightfully so. Gibson will be traded if it means they can get Melo or another star, and rightfully so. Nate is not a good NBA player and MDJ was an upgrade. I do miss Korver, but Thibs had no clue how to use him...because he isn't a dribble-scoring PG.

The argument has gone from the Bulls being a small market team (meaning they don't spend money), to examples of them spending money being dismissed as "we only pay our own" (which effectively negates the first argument of them being a small market team)...and that argument being based on them not paying Nate (they couldn't have even if they wanted to), Korver, and the assumption they won't pay DJ (they probably won't, but only because they make a major move).

I have no doubt the Bulls will spend money on a player they think can get them over the hump, just like they did when they spent money on boozer and Korver and built the team that would have been the only real challenge to the Heat on an annual basis.

The Bulls problem is the 20 mil sitting on the sidelines not playing. Not that they are unwilling to spend money.

If you think Nate, Kyle or DJ being let go is the reason Rose blew out his knees; or that any player personnel issues are the reason Rose blew out his knees... well, that is just way out there.

That's the problem..we are unwilling..if that player may put us into the luxury tax..we aren't doing it. JR and the Bulls want to make a profit. Until they prove me otherwise, I'm sticken to the "They're cheap" label.

Of course they want to make a profit. Geesh anyone who buys a business and doesn't try to make a profit is a moron. Let me guess, you hate your money and look for ways to lose it wherever possible? The Bulls have made relatively smart decisions in spending their money and their success proves it. the only questionable thing was paying any one guy 20 million, because when he ends up not playing it kind of screws you. But that is the NBA world we live in.

Here's the thing..the Bulls could go into the luxury tax and still make a profit but we don't want to cause we're cheap. Seriously, Simmons is right..The Bulls are runned as if we are a small market team. End of story.

I'm not saying go out and spend stupid money like the Nets, but there have been guys we could have gotten or kept but we decided not to because we didn't want to go into the tax..maybe this is the summer we decide to start caring about championships and not worrying about the tax.

[Michael Jackson]

Sorry, but you do realize that when your point doesn't make sense you just saying "it wasn't that difficult" doesn't change things. Deng was traded because they wouldn't pay him. And rightfully so. Gibson will be traded if it means they can get Melo or another star, and rightfully so. Nate is not a good NBA player and MDJ was an upgrade. I do miss Korver, but Thibs had no clue how to use him...because he isn't a dribble-scoring PG.

The argument has gone from the Bulls being a small market team (meaning they don't spend money), to examples of them spending money being dismissed as "we only pay our own" (which effectively negates the first argument of them being a small market team)...and that argument being based on them not paying Nate (they couldn't have even if they wanted to), Korver, and the assumption they won't pay DJ (they probably won't, but only because they make a major move).

I have no doubt the Bulls will spend money on a player they think can get them over the hump, just like they did when they spent money on boozer and Korver and built the team that would have been the only real challenge to the Heat on an annual basis.

The Bulls problem is the 20 mil sitting on the sidelines not playing. Not that they are unwilling to spend money.

If you think Nate, Kyle or DJ being let go is the reason Rose blew out his knees; or that any player personnel issues are the reason Rose blew out his knees... well, that is just way out there.

That's the problem..we are unwilling..if that player may put us into the luxury tax..we aren't doing it. JR and the Bulls want to make a profit. Until they prove me otherwise, I'm sticken to the "They're cheap" label.

I am pretty fine with that but JR acted different with Krause. He never had his purse strings held. JR never held Kenny back either. I don't think JR is unwilling to spend but Paxson is sooooo conservative himself. Since JRis turning a profit, so why disrupt Pax? Kenny I think just was willing to ask for forgiveness rather than permission. Honestly if JR was as cheap as he is painted he wouldn't dump money in the new trading facility ( his choice not Paxson) or pay Jay Williams. He clearly has more of a passion for baseball but no player or coach has ever had an issue with JR. Paxson, well it falls on his head IMHO. Jerry has also a number of times now has gone out of his way to take care of Pippen. Jerry is damn smart and I don't think he cares that Paxson is conservative but I don't think he would tell Pax no. I just don't think Pax ever pushes the subject.

[Michael Jackson]

I'm actually too cheap at my company. I hold way more back than the owner would so I guess I am guilty as pax but I have more Noah like customers than JR Smith like customers. Omg I just realized this now I need to go cry. Damnit! I have landed the big fish though. Paxson your on notice.