Wiz trade Shard and 2nd rounder for Okafor and Ariza

[LyricalRico]

Ruz, every team would say that they are trying to build a contender. What I was trying to say is that the term "vision" seems to mean (to me anyway) that the current product is what they had in mind all along and I don't think that's the case. What Pat Riley did in Miami was the execution of a vision, and I think that's very different from what is happening in NJ/Brooklyn.

If you want to say that there are times when a team with cap space can get lucky and be in the right place at the right time to add multiple stars in quick succession - sure, I'll agree with you. But there's enough of an element of chance that I would say that the term "vision" doesn't apply. I honestly don't think it's accurate to say that Williams/Wallace/Johnson/Howard is the end of a grand vision by the Nets that they executed just the way they planned it from the start (like Pat Riley did with the Heat).

I mean, where was the vision when they were giving out overpriced contracts to guys like Morrow, Farmar, Petro, Outlaw, etc? Were they saying "in a couple years we can amnesty Outlaw, trade Farmar+Petro+Morrow for Joe Johnson, and then go after Dwight Howard"? I doubt it. I also doubt that people were so complimentary about the Nets having "vision" while those moves were being made.

[gesa2]

it just seems like a long time since I got lucky

[Zonkerbl]

I'm curious where we stand on that now. Iirc, the main criticism of that trade was that we were overpaying both players and could have gotten better players with that money through free agency (or something like that).

Now here we are wondering if we should pay Ariza what he is going to be offered based off of last year's production. We have the same question about Gortat, who we had to give up a first rounder for because of the desperate need to replace Okafor's production.

It's an impossible question to answer, but could we have done any better? Who was signed for the amount of cap money we had available who have produced as much or more than Ariza+Gortat?

No snark, I'm genuinely curious. Maybe EG is a mad genius after all?

[pineappleheadindc]

Okariza thread here: viewtopic.php?t=1188356&f=35

Don't know why it's locked, but at least you can read the comments. I'll dig back into the thread's history and try to read why it was locked later on today.

Edited to add:

I unlocked the thread and bumped it to the top. It was originally locked by Nate when it hit 100 pages. But since RealGM expanded to 20 posts per page (versus the original 15), the Okariza thread is now only 75 pages long.

merging this now.

[Zonkerbl]

Hm, so there must be a "Oakariza: Part ii: The Quickening" thread somewhere.

It's where Okafor and Ariza have a lovechild and it comes out carrying a big hammer.

[Zonkerbl]

I made a post on the Discussing Other Teams thread, but I'll expand here. First of all, I'm assuming that under the Ryan Anderson scenario, we would have waived Lewis and traded Booker for Ryan Anderson. I'm also assuming that we would have utilized our #32 pick for a warm body since we would have more roster spots

So under the current scenario we have:

PG Wall/Mack
SG Beal/Crawford
SF Ariza/Singleton
PF Nene/Vesely/Booker
C Okafor/Seraphin/Blatche

We have no cap room for the foreseeable future assuming Wall and Seraphin are retained for market value in 2014.

Under the Ryan Anderson Hypothetical, our lineup would be:

PG Wall/Mack
SG Beal/Crawford/M.Denmon
SF C.Singleton/Q.Miller
PF Anderson/Vesely
C Nene/Seraphin/Blatche

We would have about $8M in cap room next year when Lewis' buyout comes off the books (assuming we amnesty Blatche as well). We also have a roster spot to convince J.Singleton to play with us as a 5th big. The SF position is horribly weak and we would have relinquished the MLE to get the cap room to absorb Anderson, but the rest of the roster is pretty good and very complementary to Wall.

God, when I saw Singleton starting at the 3 I threw up in my mouth a little.

[TGW]

Still wouldn't have done it. Ariza, Okafor, and Gortat are all middling players that have been severely overpaid in their respective careers. They are okay as stopgaps, but they aren't players you build around or trade for unless your giving back an asset with little to no value. To me, Lewis' contract was a more valuable commodity than Ariza and Okafor.

[TGW]

God, when I saw Singleton starting at the 3 I threw up in my mouth a little.

Singleton is not the problem...the moron who picked him is. There were several players on the board that were better choices and that's the guy they picked. That whole draft was a debacle.

[nate33]

I made a post on the Discussing Other Teams thread, but I'll expand here. First of all, I'm assuming that under the Ryan Anderson scenario, we would have waived Lewis and traded Booker for Ryan Anderson. I'm also assuming that we would have utilized our #32 pick for a warm body since we would have more roster spots

So under the current scenario we have:

PG Wall/Mack
SG Beal/Crawford
SF Ariza/Singleton
PF Nene/Vesely/Booker
C Okafor/Seraphin/Blatche

We have no cap room for the foreseeable future assuming Wall and Seraphin are retained for market value in 2014.

Under the Ryan Anderson Hypothetical, our lineup would be:

PG Wall/Mack
SG Beal/Crawford/M.Denmon
SF C.Singleton/Q.Miller
PF Anderson/Vesely
C Nene/Seraphin/Blatche

We would have about $8M in cap room next year when Lewis' buyout comes off the books (assuming we amnesty Blatche as well). We also have a roster spot to convince J.Singleton to play with us as a 5th big. The SF position is horribly weak and we would have relinquished the MLE to get the cap room to absorb Anderson, but the rest of the roster is pretty good and very complementary to Wall.

God, when I saw Singleton starting at the 3 I threw up in my mouth a little.

As it turned out, Webster was available for the vet minimum and we could have picked him up - bumping Singleton to the bench and Miller to oblivion.

Last year, we would have drafted Porter to fill the SF position. Who knows what we could have done with the $8M in cap room. Maybe we could have traded it plus the 2014 pick (used for Gortat) for Asik. This past season, we could have had the following roster:

Wall/Mack
Beal/Crawford
Webster/Porter
Anderson/Singleton
Asik/Nene

Much younger and cheaper.

[Zonkerbl]

Still wouldn't have done it. Ariza, Okafor, and Gortat are all middling players that have been severely overpaid in their respective careers. They are okay as stopgaps, but they aren't players you build around or trade for unless your giving back an asset with little to no value. To me, Lewis' contract was a more valuable commodity than Ariza and Okafor.

Ok but that's not good enough any more because we actually know who was signed for how much and we know how productive those players have been.

That's my question -- I mean, presumably by now we would have had to use that cap space on *somebody*. With perfect hindsight, what is the best production we could have gotten for that money?

[Zonkerbl]

I made a post on the Discussing Other Teams thread, but I'll expand here. First of all, I'm assuming that under the Ryan Anderson scenario, we would have waived Lewis and traded Booker for Ryan Anderson. I'm also assuming that we would have utilized our #32 pick for a warm body since we would have more roster spots

So under the current scenario we have:

PG Wall/Mack
SG Beal/Crawford
SF Ariza/Singleton
PF Nene/Vesely/Booker
C Okafor/Seraphin/Blatche

We have no cap room for the foreseeable future assuming Wall and Seraphin are retained for market value in 2014.

Under the Ryan Anderson Hypothetical, our lineup would be:

PG Wall/Mack
SG Beal/Crawford/M.Denmon
SF C.Singleton/Q.Miller
PF Anderson/Vesely
C Nene/Seraphin/Blatche

We would have about $8M in cap room next year when Lewis' buyout comes off the books (assuming we amnesty Blatche as well). We also have a roster spot to convince J.Singleton to play with us as a 5th big. The SF position is horribly weak and we would have relinquished the MLE to get the cap room to absorb Anderson, but the rest of the roster is pretty good and very complementary to Wall.

God, when I saw Singleton starting at the 3 I threw up in my mouth a little.

As it turned out, Webster was available for the vet minimum and we could have picked him up - bumping Singleton to the bench and Miller to oblivion.

Last year, we would have drafted Porter to fill the SF position. Who knows what we could have done with the $8M in cap room. Maybe we could have traded it plus the 2014 pick (used for Gortat) for Asik. This past season, we could have had the following roster:

Wall/Mack
Beal/Crawford
Webster/Porter
Anderson/Singleton
Asik/Nene

Much younger and cheaper.

Ugh, Singleton as the backup 4? That's better than him starting at the 3 but still disastrous. That's asking the starters to dig you out of a ten point hole every time you are forced to put him in the game.

But yeah, that's a nice roster, other than the backup 4. And Gooden would be fine there.

This is the "all patience" team. Instead of flailing around looking for a backup PG and SG, we could have just, you know, held on to and developed the players we had!

[Zonkerbl]

Wait, what? How would you trade cap room for Asik?

[BruceO]

thread should be turned eventually to wizards trade rashaads terrible contract a second rounder and a mid first for a really good starting small forward and starting center who were at previously good deals

[Illuminaire]

Wait, what? How would you trade cap room for Asik?

You do know that when a team is under the cap, they can take on salary without giving it back, right?

Houston would get a 1st round pick and a large trade exception.

[hands11]

thread should be turned eventually to wizards trade rashaads terrible contract a second rounder and a mid first for a really good starting small forward and starting center who were at previously good deals

How about even better.

Wizards trade Gils boat anchor mega max contract, 2nd, plus 18th in 2014

for

One of the top 3 n D SF in the league, one year of Oakfor who was a really good defensive center that helped the team transform into a defensive team, and one year of the top P n R centers in the league.

TA and Gortat contracts expire the same year Gil contract the only cost 15M this last year and Gil cost 22M

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Rashard Lewis looked completely done three years ago as a Wizard. Tonight for Miami he hit 6 threes. He also is playing reasonably good defense.

Sent from my SGH-M919 using RealGM Forums mobile app

[montestewart]

Rashard Lewis looked completely done three years ago as a Wizard. Tonight for Miami he hit 6 threes. He also is playing reasonably good defense.

Sent from my SGH-M919 using RealGM Forums mobile app

Everybody looks better when they're playing with Miami. Watch Singleton end up there and suddenly look like a real player.

[hands11]

Rashard Lewis looked completely done three years ago as a Wizard. Tonight for Miami he hit 6 threes. He also is playing reasonably good defense.

Sent from my SGH-M919 using RealGM Forums mobile app

Everybody looks better when they're playing with Miami. Watch Singleton end up there and suddenly look like a real player.

Which it true of lot of player that go to good teams.

Think of all those players that otherwise aren't that good until they go to SAS

viewtopic.php?f=35&t=1188356&start=1480

[montestewart]

Rashard Lewis looked completely done three years ago as a Wizard. Tonight for Miami he hit 6 threes. He also is playing reasonably good defense.

Sent from my SGH-M919 using RealGM Forums mobile app

Everybody looks better when they're playing with Miami. Watch Singleton end up there and suddenly look like a real player.

Which it true of lot of player that go to good teams.

Think of all those players that otherwise aren't that good until they go to SAS

viewtopic.php?f=35&t=1188356&start=1480

Imagine a Wizards that might make even Maynor look good...you may say I'm a dreamer...or high

[Zonkerbl]

Wait, what? How would you trade cap room for Asik?

You do know that when a team is under the cap, they can take on salary without giving it back, right?

Houston would get a 1st round pick and a large trade exception.

No need to be snarky, I was genuinely curious.