Official #2 Pick Thread - Ford #7: Parker

[Bernman]

Literally every single workout video we've watched the last two weeks shows players going 100% from 24 feet. Aaron Gordon looked like a rich man's Ray Allen.

Exactly - a high majority of those workout videos are edited to show all the makes.

And even if they weren't, people would be amazed at how well NBA players can shoot on an empty court. Joe Wolf shot 16.4% from 3 during his career, but I went to his camp a couple times and he was drilling one 3 after another nonchalantly while giving instructions to the campers. Translating that skill to a game is vastly different though.

The only workout videos that even moved me a little were Embiid's and Wilcox's. And Embiid's only moved me because he was injured previously so could show it wasn't hampering me anymore. As for Wilcox, his form was perfect, and not only did the shots go in but it's almost like he was sitting over the hoop dropping them in. He's a superb shooter for a pro. So are McDermott, Stauskas, and a few others. But the rest are just good compared to us right now.

[pe_it72]

Has anyone mentioned that Embiid will be one of the biggest centers in the league year one? I read somewhere that he is up 15 pounds from 240. At 7'1 255 I think the only person taller and thicker will be Hibbert.

[JayMKE]

Has anyone mentioned that Embiid will be one of the biggest centers in the league year one? I read somewhere that he is up 15 pounds from 240. At 7'1 255 I think the only person taller and thicker will be Hibbert.

Marc Gasol

[VooDoo7]

Considering I'd take him #1 if we were picking there, this is pretty easy for me.

[Buckrageous]

This from ESPN's Jeff Goodman's

"The Bucks will have a choice between the ultra-athletic Wiggins and the skilled Parker if Embiid is off the board. That will be an agonizing decision for GM John Hammond, who will balance taking the more-NBA ready Parker and Wiggins, who appears to have the higher upside. Hammond can ill afford to miss here, and that will be why he ultimately goes with Parker."

Really hate the idea with a pick like this to trust it on a lame duck GM who is going to for wins now. This isn't to infuse the parker/wiggins debate, but show the lack of guidance being giving at the GM/Head coaching level.

This is why I think if Hammond is really a lame duck GM someone else should be running the draft. This might be the highest pick they will have for the foreseeable future along with 3 seconds. Why would you leave such an important draft to a guy you dont have faith in?

Recall BuckPack's post on May 8th:

Sale will be done shortly. No decision has been made on the front office--I do expect Hammond to be the GM when the selection is made, though I would be surprised if he's the GM much beyond that.


So...maybe he's not "safe" going into this season?

All the more reason to make the move now. You dont trust the guy to be GM in July but you are going to trust him with #2 overall pick? The new GM might never have a pick that high but they're going to let John Hammond have it and dictate a major part of the core.

[Bernman]

I think Smarts a good prospect in the 4th best player on your team type deal. Not stylistically, but impact, something like Wes Matthews.

If Wes Matthews could run a team decently, and had great peripheral stats instead of mundane ones (.9 stls, .2 blks, 3.5 rebs).

And don't bother bringing up Matthews' shooting, because he was arguably worse in that dept in college than Smart. Barely shot it as a frosh, 28.8 as a soph, 31.3 as a jr, and that was playing off the ball plus being selective. Unless it's an elite skill already, shooting is a really overrated factor when evaluating a young prospect. It's fairly important for an NBA vet, but some players (even perimeter ones) can make an impact regardless, and it's one of the skills that is most apt to develop for players.

Even if Smart doesn't develop his shooting, he's pretty much Andre Miller, only scoring a few more points per game due to athleticism/strength, and being a considerably better overall defender. That's an impactful player, a lot more so than Wes Matthews.

[Zeezprah]

lol DWade was a million times better. if you compare their stats in college it's night and day. also, when you saw Dwyane Wade single handedly tear apart that amazing kentucky squad on the biggest stage possible, you just knew he was gonna be special. smart did nothing of that calibur at OKC.

he's an overrated prospect because he was in contention for the #1 pick last year in an extremely weak draft, so that hype carried over. my guess is the same people who like MCW are the people who like smart. yea sure he's prolly gonna put up stats appeasing to the average eye his rookie season in the nba, i have no doubts about that. it'll be all fluff though. prolly a terrible A/TO ratio, below average FG%, and bad efficiency/advanced metrics across the board.

also, what do you think people are gonna say about him at OKC or the ones that hang around him all the time? he sucks? i never saw anything about the dude that screamed high character at all. but i guess we'll see

i guess his countless flops are entertaining

Just because you say lol and a million times better, doesn't constitute a case.

The case you tried to make afterward, if that's what that was, was really poor.

a. as aforementioned, Smart was the #1 player in the nation according to some metrics, among all the prospects he's being compared to. http://godismyjudgeok.com/DStats/2013/nba-stats/ncaa-advanced-statistical-plus-minus-released/ Those metrics include efficiency and to's by the way, as they are advanced.

b. That stat wasn't around when Wade was in college. He was several points higher in PER, but that doesn't factor in defense that much, which is Smart's strength biggest strength, and Wade was only considered above average in college, so that makes up most of the gap.

c. his character was getting talked up after his stint with the U.S. national team too, and they didn't have to deal with him after that. The praise for how good of a teammate he was, was also disproportionate.

d. who cares about entertainment and flopping? We're talking about effectiveness here. Bringing up those other factors shows you have an emotional bias here, although so did the rest of your post's content.

BTW, there is no such school as "OKC". He went to Ok St.

wasn't really trying to make a formal case in anyone's court. just saying that smart will be pretty much trash compared to wade. and as far as it being emotional? of course there's some emotion to it. i don't like him as a prospect. and i'm still skeptical of his character. seemed like a big time pouter/complainer on several occasions when i watched him at OKST. i've seen other people call him a baby too, so i know i'm not crazy (i know, this makes my argument weak because i have not cited my sources).

lis, inb4 4.5 APG / 3 TOPG, 39% shooting, 20% 3P shooting, 65% FT.

and you know i meant OKST as far as the OKC thing goes. kind of understandable i'd have a slip as okc is playing atm in the background as we speak. but thanks for the education.

[Baddy Chuck]

Even if Smart doesn't develop his shooting, he's pretty much Andre Miller, only scoring a few more points per game due to athleticism/strength, and being a considerably better overall defender. That's an impactful player, a lot more so than Wes Matthews.

No he's not. Smart is no where near the game manager or passer that Miller was. Not even close.

He's probably closer to Brandon Knight then Andre Miller in those regards, which were possibly the best parts of Miller's game. That's basically the "Kidd without all the things that made Kidd great" comparison.

[pe_it72]

Has anyone mentioned that Embiid will be one of the biggest centers in the league year one? I read somewhere that he is up 15 pounds from 240. At 7'1 255 I think the only person taller and thicker will be Hibbert.

Marc Gasol

Good call

He goes 10 lbs heavier. Deandre is heavier too i think.

Dwight is also 265 but is only 6'11"

[Baddy Chuck]

a) Baddy's stats sort of refute the eye test regarding Jabari being substantially better offensively.

To clear up my stance, I think Parker was easily better offensively. I do believe that a lot of the things Wiggins is rather fairly criticized (not to the extent they are though) are parts of Parker's game that need work but are ignored and simply put into the "complete offensive player" category. I think he showed a ton of inconsistency with his jumper (especially from three), I don't think he was good off the dribble (relative to the level people think he/Wiggins are at) and his finishing ability was nothing that Wiggins should be looking starry-eyed at.

The two areas that push Parker up into the "easily better" category, at least at the college level, was his post play and shooting on the move. His catch and shoot ability off the move was really good. I think that should translate rather easily. I do question his post play though moving forward. I think he benefited a ton from just being bigger and more aggressive then the defenders he was going up against in the post at the college level. I think even forwards like Tobes, Markeiff Morris or Luol Deng could almost take that out of his game completely at the NBA level, especially with the help of the second line of defense and rebounders he'll be going up against in the NBA.

[JayMKE]

This is why I think if Hammond is really a lame duck GM someone else should be running the draft. This might be the highest pick they will have for the foreseeable future along with 3 seconds. Why would you leave such an important draft to a guy you dont have faith in?

Recall BuckPack's post on May 8th:

Sale will be done shortly. No decision has been made on the front office--I do expect Hammond to be the GM when the selection is made, though I would be surprised if he's the GM much beyond that.


So...maybe he's not "safe" going into this season?

All the more reason to make the move now. You dont trust the guy to be GM in July but you are going to trust him with #2 overall pick? The new GM might never have a pick that high but they're going to let John Hammond have it and dictate a major part of the core.

I very much doubt they'd can Hammond after the draft, if they do then Lasry and Eden will be making the pick.

[machu46]

This is why I think if Hammond is really a lame duck GM someone else should be running the draft. This might be the highest pick they will have for the foreseeable future along with 3 seconds. Why would you leave such an important draft to a guy you dont have faith in?

Recall BuckPack's post on May 8th:

Sale will be done shortly. No decision has been made on the front office--I do expect Hammond to be the GM when the selection is made, though I would be surprised if he's the GM much beyond that.


So...maybe he's not "safe" going into this season?

All the more reason to make the move now. You dont trust the guy to be GM in July but you are going to trust him with #2 overall pick? The new GM might never have a pick that high but they're going to let John Hammond have it and dictate a major part of the core.

Could also possibly be a case of Hammond has been scouting these guys all year and knows what he wants. Whoever we would replace him with might not have been scouting all year? I don't know.

[LUKE23]

It depends where you play Parker in the pros. If you play him at 4, he's going to be a face-up/dribble drive nightmare. If you play him at 3, he's sitting at around 6-9/240 with a good reach and even in the NBA not many SF are that size. Granted, the downfall here is that he's probably a defensive liability at both spots as well. That's why he's not going #1. But I honestly think he's going to be a major offensive mismatch. Either way, he will need to continue to develop his 3 point shot, as that is a needed weapon for any "elite" offensive player.

The reason you can argue Wiggins over him, is that Wiggins steps on the court being able to guard 2/3, and is not without offensive production on his side (the guy did average 20 ppg per 40 as a frosh). You are going to have to wait on his handle and shot consistency if you are expecting a NBA 20+ ppg guy, but the argument for taking him is maybe that it's easier to develop those skills than it is to gain the traits needed for Parker to improve defensively. And for me, NET impact is what it's about.

May be off here, but that's my take.

[[MIKE C]]

I have Embiid at the head of the class, but I still have Wiggins in the next tier by himself, mostly based on what he could become if everything comes together for him. That is why I would rather the Bucks stay at 2 than move down even one or two spots. I would much rather the Bucks have Embiid or Wiggins than anyone else in this draft, and I am thrilled that they are in position to make that happen.

1) Embiid
---------------
2) Wiggins
---------------
3) Exum
4) Parker
---------------
The rest

[Bernman]

No he's not. Smart is no where near the game manager or passer that Miller was. Not even close.

He's probably closer to Brandon Knight then Andre Miller in those regards, which were possibly the best parts of Miller's game. That's basically the "Kidd without all the things that made Kidd great" comparison.

Yes, he most surely is close to Andre Miller in that department.

Miller stayed a year longer in college, and played in an inferior conference, but "only" averaged .9 more assists.

And Smart is hardly a ball dominator to accumulate his assists. He is a good game manager because he's very efficient with handling the basketball, often just making a post or lateral pass early in the clock, especially to the hot teammate, to advance the team's offense. Then, late in the clock, he's the one taking on shooting duties, not offloading them onto teammates. That hurts his assist and shooting percentages.

Don't bring up Knight who has tunnel vision on the break, on the drive, and ball dominates as a point. There is no actual comparison outside them being big point guards but not big assist guys. There is a drastic difference in the way they run teams.

BTW, in DX's scouting report they list "passing instincts" as a strength. He's a good passer, he just handles the ball less than most point guards. That's arguably a good thing though. Depends on your team construct and how well the point guard is creating efficiently for himself and others while he has the ball. If it's Paul it's good, but not Marbury, Jennings, or many others.

[paulpressey25]

I very much doubt they'd can Hammond after the draft, if they do then Lasry and Eden will be making the pick.

L&E are going to be making the pick at #2 regardless of who is around.

The Bucks staff will brief them on all the candidates, but I'd highly doubt that L&E won't have the final say here. These three players are far to closely bunched together for them not to want to weigh in with their choice.

They didn't pay $650 million to have Hammond make the biggest and most fun choice in recent franchise history for them. And as I say that, I'm not really worried about them meddling. I think both of these guys are smarter than Hammond as it relates to being able to make this decision.

Now, as to the second round picks? That's all on Hammond and Morway.

[SkilesTheLimit]

I very much doubt they'd can Hammond after the draft, if they do then Lasry and Eden will be making the pick.

L&E are going to be making the pick at #2 regardless of who is around.

The Bucks staff will brief them on all the candidates, but I'd highly doubt that L&E won't have the final say here. These three players are far to closely bunched together for them not to want to weigh in with their choice.

They didn't pay $650 million to have Hammond make the biggest and most fun choice in recent franchise history for them. And as I say that, I'm not really worried about them meddling. I think both of these guys are smarter than Hammond as it relates to being able to make this decision.

Now, as to the second round picks? That's all on Hammond and Morway.

So you're saying Hammond spent all that time in Lawrence, KS this winter for nothing?

[JayMKE]

I don't see why Parker has to be a 4 or a 3, that's what's great about having two versatile guys like him and Giannis. Position isn't as important when you have guys like that, you play the match ups if you have to but hopefully they're struggling to match up with you.

[paulpressey25]

So you're saying Hammond spent all that time in Lawrence, KS this winter for nothing?

Hammond is going to spend a number of hours over the next month talking with L&E and giving his scouting opinions and recommendation. And I'm sure Morway will be trying to nuzzle in there also.

They will also need Hammond and Morway to do a great job of calculating each scenario and considerations therein depending on who Cleveland picks.

But at the end of the day, L&E are going to head back to their pad in Kilbourn Towers and talk it over and make the decision.

[SkilesTheLimit]

I don't see why Parker has to be a 4 or a 3, that's what's great about having two versatile guys like him and Giannis. Position isn't as important when you have guys like that, you play the match ups if you have to but hopefully they're struggling to match up with you.

Great point. I've been trying to emphasize the Coach K mindset of the greats not necessarily being pigeon-holed into a particular position.

I still don't know what position Giannis plays. And I'm not sure he will ever be pegged in a certain position with the intangibles in his game. I see Parker much in the same light with the added benefit of being a much more natural scorer.