Official #2 Pick Thread - Ford #7: Parker

[LUKE23]

Basically you just start them at the forward spots. Giannis guards the better offensive forward.

[4hitter]

I very much doubt they'd can Hammond after the draft, if they do then Lasry and Eden will be making the pick.

L&E are going to be making the pick at #2 regardless of who is around.

The Bucks staff will brief them on all the candidates, but I'd highly doubt that L&E won't have the final say here. These three players are far to closely bunched together for them not to want to weigh in with their choice.

They didn't pay $650 million to have Hammond make the biggest and most fun choice in recent franchise history for them. And as I say that, I'm not really worried about them meddling. I think both of these guys are smarter than Hammond as it relates to being able to make this decision.

Now, as to the second round picks? That's all on Hammond and Morway.

Yep. I've said this for awhile now on Twitter... You don't spend $550 million, commit an additional $100 million only to let John Hammond make the final decision on the pick. If you listen and read what Edens has said closely he's not saying Hammond has the only say.. What he does say is they're the basketball people and we'll rely on their evaluations and work with them to make the right choice. I translate that as Hammond/Morway did the hard part scouting and Lasry/Edens will take what they said and use it to make THEIR choice.

[[MIKE C]]

I very much doubt they'd can Hammond after the draft, if they do then Lasry and Eden will be making the pick.

L&E are going to be making the pick at #2 regardless of who is around.

The Bucks staff will brief them on all the candidates, but I'd highly doubt that L&E won't have the final say here. These three players are far to closely bunched together for them not to want to weigh in with their choice.

They didn't pay $650 million to have Hammond make the biggest and most fun choice in recent franchise history for them. And as I say that, I'm not really worried about them meddling. I think both of these guys are smarter than Hammond as it relates to being able to make this decision.

Now, as to the second round picks? That's all on Hammond and Morway.

I have a hard time buying that. I would feel worse about L&E making the pick than a lame duck GM, or a new, unprepared GM. They would be more likely to make the pick based on name recognition. L&E aren't basketball people, and they are the first to admit as much. I believe they are smart enough to know when and how to delegate the important basketball decisions. I'm sure they'll want to be part of the fun and throw in their two cents on who they like. But I'm fairly confident they'll leave the final decision to someone else.

[Baddy Chuck]

No he's not. Smart is no where near the game manager or passer that Miller was. Not even close.

He's probably closer to Brandon Knight then Andre Miller in those regards, which were possibly the best parts of Miller's game. That's basically the "Kidd without all the things that made Kidd great" comparison.

Yes, he most surely is close to Andre Miller in that department.

No he isn't. He isn't a point guard like Miller in the sense that he looks to set up teammates, he looks for his own and the assists come off of that, like a Brandon Knight or Tyreke Evans. More often then not he's running up someones chest and flailing for a foul before even looking to kick it out. He's a point guard only in the sense that he needs the ball in his hands because he can't play off the ball, and assists come with high usage and an average ability to find the open shooter. Like Knight, he is also a guy who can kill the tempo on the drop of a dime with an atrocious 30 second left three pointer/long two on any given play.

He compares nothing to Miller when it comes to the duties of a point guard, really besides his inability to make a three point shot I don't think he compares at all any area of the floor.

[pe_it72]

This would be so much easier if we just had the first four picks......

Exum
Wiggins
Gainnis
Parker
Embiid

[paulpressey25]

I have a hard time buying that. I would feel worse about L&E making the pick than a lame duck GM, or a new, unprepared GM. They would be more likely to make the pick based on name recognition. L&E aren't basketball people,

You have to be "basketball people" to make the pick at #15. Or #31. Or #42.

But for the #2 pick in the 2014 draft you just have to be very smart and have access to top decision makers to advise you.

This basketball people stuff is over-rated. Collectively this board has out thought Herb and Hammond at every turn, and we had zero access to the level of information they did. And you can make great arguments to take any of these three guys, as we are debating here the past week.

I have zero worries about these two particular guys screwing this up.

[Bernman]

No he isn't. He isn't a point guard like Miller in the sense that he looks to set up teammates, he looks for his own and the assists come off of that, like a Brandon Knight or Tyreke Evans. More often then not he's running up someones chest and flailing for a foul before even looking to kick it out. He's a point guard only in the sense that he needs the ball in his hands because he can't play off the ball, and assists come with high usage and an average ability to find the open shooter. Like Knight, he is also a guy who can kill the tempo on the drop of a dime with an atrocious 30 second left three pointer/long two.

He compares nothing to Miller when it comes to the duties of a point guard.

Marcus Smart's DX scouting report: Strengths - passing instincts.

Between this and the Wiggins' vs. Parker analysis, I have to wonder how much you really watch these guys, and how much you just draw conclusions off stats instead, or conform your opinions to biases you develop early. Because a high majority of these evaluations here you're contending are being shared by the pro and amateur scouts (DX).

[SkilesTheLimit]

The more I read and think about our situation, the more at ease I feel.

No matter who the hell we choose or who the hell makes the choice, we're going to get an elite talent.

[[MIKE C]]

I have a hard time buying that. I would feel worse about L&E making the pick than a lame duck GM, or a new, unprepared GM. They would be more likely to make the pick based on name recognition. L&E aren't basketball people,

You have to be "basketball people" to make the pick at #15. Or #31. Or #42.

But for the #2 pick in the 2014 draft you just have to be very smart and have access to top decision makers to advise you.

This basketball people stuff is over-rated. Collectively this board has out thought Herb and Hammond at every turn, and we had zero access to the level of information they did. And you can make great arguments to take any of these three guys, as we are debating here the past week.

I have zero worries about these two particular guys screwing this up.

There is no way they are making a pick this important themselves. If they didn't trust Hammond to do it he wouldn't be there. The fact that there is no consensus for that spot is all the more reason why this pick needs to be made with some serious analysis. The last thing we need is more owner meddling at this stage of the game. Everything I have heard from L&E so far leads me to believe that they are smart enough to know their place.

[Baddy Chuck]

No he isn't. He isn't a point guard like Miller in the sense that he looks to set up teammates, he looks for his own and the assists come off of that, like a Brandon Knight or Tyreke Evans. More often then not he's running up someones chest and flailing for a foul before even looking to kick it out. He's a point guard only in the sense that he needs the ball in his hands because he can't play off the ball, and assists come with high usage and an average ability to find the open shooter. Like Knight, he is also a guy who can kill the tempo on the drop of a dime with an atrocious 30 second left three pointer/long two.

He compares nothing to Miller when it comes to the duties of a point guard.

Marcus Smart's DX scouting report: Strengths - passing instincts.

Between this and the Wiggins' vs. Parker analysis, I have to wonder how much you really watch these guys, and how much you just draw conclusions off stats instead, or conform your opinions to biases you develop early. Because a high majority of these evaluations here you're contending are being shared by the pro and amateur scouts (DX).

Here's Tyreke Evans - Ability to create for others

I think every year there's players whose "passing instincts" are based almost exclusively on the number of assists they get. I don't think Smart has the tunnel vision Knight does, but there's no way hes comparable to actual vision that a guy like Miller had, not even close. Vision =/ passing instincts/ability to create for others while kicking it off on a drive every once in a while. Andre Miller was about as pure and true a point guard as you could've compared Smart too, maybe besides those ridiculous Kidd comparisons. Don't like Knight or Evans, then I'll add Monta Ellis' "point guard ability and passing instincts" into the guys I'd compare Smart's to. I'd say Monta is almost surely craftier/better on the pick and roll as well. Also even draftexpress points out all the atrocious, tempo killing, contested jumpers that Smart takes.

[machu46]

No he isn't. He isn't a point guard like Miller in the sense that he looks to set up teammates, he looks for his own and the assists come off of that, like a Brandon Knight or Tyreke Evans. More often then not he's running up someones chest and flailing for a foul before even looking to kick it out. He's a point guard only in the sense that he needs the ball in his hands because he can't play off the ball, and assists come with high usage and an average ability to find the open shooter. Like Knight, he is also a guy who can kill the tempo on the drop of a dime with an atrocious 30 second left three pointer/long two.

He compares nothing to Miller when it comes to the duties of a point guard.

Marcus Smart's DX scouting report: Strengths - passing instincts.

Between this and the Wiggins' vs. Parker analysis, I have to wonder how much you really watch these guys, and how much you just draw conclusions off stats instead, or conform your opinions to biases you develop early. Because a high majority of these evaluations here you're contending are being shared by the pro and amateur scouts (DX).

DX also says that some of Tyler Ennis' biggest strengths are his ability to run the pick and roll, run the fast break, and make post entry passes even though those are actually three of his biggest weaknesses.

Not saying Smart's passing instincts are good, but DX scouting reports aren't god.

[VooDoo7]

So if Lasry and Edens are making this pick, are they, too, meddling owners?

[machu46]

I have a hard time buying that. I would feel worse about L&E making the pick than a lame duck GM, or a new, unprepared GM. They would be more likely to make the pick based on name recognition. L&E aren't basketball people,

You have to be "basketball people" to make the pick at #15. Or #31. Or #42.

But for the #2 pick in the 2014 draft you just have to be very smart and have access to top decision makers to advise you.

This basketball people stuff is over-rated. Collectively this board has out thought Herb and Hammond at every turn, and we had zero access to the level of information they did. And you can make great arguments to take any of these three guys, as we are debating here the past week.

I have zero worries about these two particular guys screwing this up.

There is no way they are making a pick this important themselves. If they didn't trust Hammond to do it he wouldn't be there. The fact that there is no consensus for that spot is all the more reason why this pick needs to be made with some serious analysis. The last thing we need is more owner meddling at this stage of the game. Everything I have heard from L&E so far leads me to believe that they are smart enough to know their place.

I think you're missing what he's really saying. He's saying that they need Hammond so that they can learn about all of the prospects and so that he can lay out all their strengths and weaknesses, the risks and the rewards. Then they can decide what approach they want the team to take, and then they let Hammond go from there.

That's how I'm reading it anyways.

[[MIKE C]]

You have to be "basketball people" to make the pick at #15. Or #31. Or #42.

But for the #2 pick in the 2014 draft you just have to be very smart and have access to top decision makers to advise you.

This basketball people stuff is over-rated. Collectively this board has out thought Herb and Hammond at every turn, and we had zero access to the level of information they did. And you can make great arguments to take any of these three guys, as we are debating here the past week.

I have zero worries about these two particular guys screwing this up.

There is no way they are making a pick this important themselves. If they didn't trust Hammond to do it he wouldn't be there. The fact that there is no consensus for that spot is all the more reason why this pick needs to be made with some serious analysis. The last thing we need is more owner meddling at this stage of the game. Everything I have heard from L&E so far leads me to believe that they are smart enough to know their place.

I think you're missing what he's really saying. He's saying that they need Hammond so that they can learn about all of the prospects and so that he can lay out all their strengths and weaknesses, the risks and the rewards. Then they can decide what approach they want the team to take, and then they let Hammond go from there.

That's how I'm reading it anyways.

Yea, I guess if you put it that way then it's just semantics on who's pick it really is. Hammond provides the analysis, L&E layout the direction they want the team to take.

[4hitter]

So if Lasry and Edens are making this pick, are they, too, meddling owners?

If they continue to do it every year but I'd give them slack on this year after spending what they did and only having 3 years to win over a city to get a new arena. I don't think going forward they'd meddle to the extent Kohl did or they wouldn't be as successful as they are in business.

[Bernman]

Here's Tyreke Evans - Ability to create for others

I think every year there's players whose "passing instincts" are based almost exclusively on the number of assists they get. I don't think Smart has the tunnel vision Knight does, but there's no way hes comparable to actual vision that a guy like Miller had, not even close. Vision =/ passing instincts/ability to create for others while kicking it off on a drive every once in a while. Andre Miller was about as pure and true a point guard as you could've compared Smart too, maybe besides those ridiculous Kidd comparisons. Don't like Knight or Evans, then I'll add Monta Ellis' "point guard ability and passing instincts" into the guys I'd compare Smart's to. I'd say Monta is almost surely craftier/better on the pick and roll as well.

Tyreke Evans does have ability to create for others. He just creates for himself a lot more, and dribbles the air out of the ball while doing it. Not nearly how Smart plays, and ability to create for others implies something different than passing instincts. That implies making the right pass when presented, which he does do a lot, via kick outs or dump offs via penetration, alleys, pick and roll splits, timing a pass to the shooter coming around the screen, etc. They say he has passing instincts because they've seen it from watching him. It's certainly not from his assist total of 4.8, which doesn't flatter him. You know how I know he's vastly different from Tyreke Evans? Because I hated Tyreke Evans as a prospect due to how he ran a team. While my stance on Smart is quite different.

[paulpressey25]

Machu has my thoughts.

It isn't like Edens and Lasry are going to shunt the front office people aside and go rogue like Herb did at times.

L&E are going to expect to be briefed in massive detail by the basketball people. Massive briefing and summaries. But for this particular pick, they will make the call based on that information.

That said, the future of Hammond and Morway will depend on how detailed they are in their presentations and counsel to L&E over the next 30 days. Guys at the level of L&El will quickly grasp whether or not they are comfortable with the work product they receive.

And it is likely that they will compare the work product they get from Hammond with input from some NBA friends they have (David Robinson for example) as well.

[Bernman]

There is no justification whatsoever for Lasry and Edens making the pick. Absolutely zero. They are not basketball people, and said they are aware of that, so part of them being successful owners involved delegating to those who actually are. Thus it would be against their supposed philosophies and hypocritical to make this pick. It's worse that it's such an important pick. If they're going to have influence, maybe it could be on our 8th 2nd round pick, that they could make for fun, since nothing is being risked on it. But not this one.

I'd be fine with them telling Hammond he needs to get aggressive in the draft to win the arena vote and follow the OKC model that makes sense for this market. But they don't have the knowledge to make specific player decisions, briefed or not. They haven't proven to possess a trained eye.

[Baddy Chuck]

You know how I know he's vastly different from Tyreke Evans? Because I hated Tyreke Evans as a prospect due to how he ran a team. While my stance on Smart is quite different.

Well then, I'm convinced.

I don't see how anyone could like Smart running a team honestly. Don't really see any way his game changes enough to where he isn't heavily flawed as a point guard in the NBA. Being a Monta Ellis passer, leaking a few passes through the defense or kicking it out to the open three point shooter, doesn't make up for all his downfalls as a point guard to me. He plays wildly out of control, takes chances on more 50/50 plays then maybe any point guard in the NCAA, shoots more ill-advised jumpers then anyone in the NCAA. He certainly doesn't make the right play when it presents itself most of the time, he forces a ton. He certainly compares in no way to the slow, steady, game managing, true point guard like Andre Miller.

I like him as a role player, even a high usage one, but I think you are in for a world of hurt if he's your teams starting point guard.

[Ruben Quevedo]

The obsession over who we take with the #2 pick should be far outweighed by our concern for coaching and player development.

Whoever we take will have great potential...getting the most out of their potential is going to be a function of the organizational environment we put around them.