Peyton Siva, significant contributor or future journeyman?

jakebernat · Post #1 » by **jakebernat** » Fri May 30, 2014 4:48 pm

Ever since last year's draft, I've held a great deal of optimism for Peyton Siva. He's almost everything I like in a point guard/basketball player: smart, pass-first, defensive, well-spoken (an underrated trait in my opinion,) and above all else, a winner. You get the sense that he doesn't take basketball for granted, and I greatly respect that.

Enter Summer League.

Fresh off of leading his Cardinals team to a national championship after a gruesome injury to Ware could've easily rattled him, Siva immediately began to show the poise that landed him on an NBA roster. During his time in Orlando, he picked defenses apart with his passing, valuing each distinct possession, a characteristic of an 8-year veteran. He routinely burned defenses off of P&R's with Drummond, whether he hit the roll man or found the open shooter as a result of his penetration. Simply put, he looked comfortable.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZaLpHz_Ph4[/youtube]

So then, there's some downtime. Dumars likes Siva and wants him on the team, but the roster's full. Time passes, Knight goes out, Jennings comes in, we all hold our breath and convince ourselves that a talent upgrade was needed blah blah blah. A roster spot opened up, and Peyton consequently signed his first NBA contract. To me, it was a small silver lining in what turned out to be a horrific trade.

Early on in the season, and even throughout the heart of the year, playing time was sporadic for Siva. He was caught in a number's game behind a few established players in the league, so he never got a legitimate chance to prove his worth. However, during the final month or so of last season, he got his opportunity. Once again, he was making the same high-IQ plays that we saw him make in the Summer League and showing his teeth defensively. Hell, he even showcased a much improved jumper, even if it was still average at best. That just goes to show the mindset of Siva: He wasn't getting the playing time, and he could've packed it in and just coasted through the season, but he kept at it and did whatever it took to get himself on the court.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bAyziF-6Bs[/youtube]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhXMWQ3tFuc[/youtube]

Now, my question to you guys is this: Just how successful do you think this guy can be? Personally, I see every reason for him to be a productive backup PG for the rest of his career, but could he be more than that? For this particular team, I think so, and here's why. We're starving for a true floor general who can control the pace of the game, make the right plays for his teammates, and spearhead our defense. In an era of the league where star PG's are around every corner, Siva isn't the sexiest choice to quarterback a team, but that's not what's important. What's important is that our PG takes care of the ball, is effective in the P&R, feeds the post, finds the open shooters, and is committed defensively.

With the Stan Van in town, how long will it be before he takes notice of Siva? Does anyone realistically see Peyton challenging Jennings for his spot if BJ doesn't play up to SVG's standards?

This is a thread I've been meaning to make for some time now. Now please, play nice children.

MotownMadness · Post #2 » by **MotownMadness** » Fri May 30, 2014 4:54 pm

Hes better then Jennings lol.

jakebernat · Post #3 » by **jakebernat** » Fri May 30, 2014 5:00 pm

MotownMadness wrote:Hes better then Jennings lol.

I know we all can't stand Jennings, but I honestly believe this. I hope he gets his chance to prove it. I love bynum and everything, and it was f/ucking awesome when he threw one down on Tyson Chandler's head, but there's only 2 PG's on the roster who should be seeing minutes this season...

ImHeisenberg · Post #4 » by **ImHeisenberg** » Fri May 30, 2014 5:04 pm

Peyton Siva- future Italian league MVP.

jakebernat · Post #5 » by **jakebernat** » Fri May 30, 2014 5:06 pm

ImHeisenberg wrote:Peyton Siva- future Italian league MVP.

Two MVP's in the same lineup? Can you say dynasty??

Billl · Post #6 » by **Billl** » Fri May 30, 2014 5:27 pm

You left off the most likely option c) out of the league.

Who knows, he might develop into a player. He's a hard worker and has a good attitude. Currently he's a scrub though. Unless he shows some major improvement, he's going to be looking for camp invites and 10 day contracts. There are literally only 5 guys in the NBA who took over 50 shots and shot a worse percentage than him. 31% ! That makes Jennings look like a sharpshooter.

Southern Piston · Post #7 » by **Southern Piston** » Fri May 30, 2014 5:29 pm

I think he could max out to be a good backup pg, I already think he's good enough to a good 3rd pg with his playmaking abbilitites, defense, and attitiude. I see him as a backup to a top tier pg in the future. to go along with KCP. What we really need is T Mitchell to be ready to produce as a third big man before his rookie contract is over. Then we'll have a base of role players to build around Drummond and Monroe.

Q00 · Post #8 » by **Q00** » Fri May 30, 2014 6:04 pm

I think he might've been the best rookie from that class this year. His defense is just as good as KCPs. So its funny that people are saying Siva is going to be out of the league, yet think KCP is going to be a longterm fixture at SG just because of his defense.

I still think Siva has a chance to be a starting PG in this league. Most likely he will be a backup, but even then he should be able to have a long career off the bench because he defends and plays the right way.

Natopher · Post #9 » by **Natopher** » Fri May 30, 2014 6:31 pm

I love Peyton Siva. He's a player that I think is more talented than what he's been allowed to show. There were games last year where he looked really good and I would be pretty excited if he was our backup PG next year. I don't think he'll ever be anything more than a very solid backup PG, but that's pretty dang good for a 2nd round pick.

Q00 · Post #10 » by **Q00** » Fri May 30, 2014 6:55 pm

Natopher wrote:I love Peyton Siva. He's a player that I think is more talented than what he's been allowed to show. There were games last year where he looked really good and I would be pretty excited if he was our backup PG next year. I don't think he'll ever be anything more than a very solid backup PG, but that's pretty dang good for a 2nd round pick.

I could see him being like a Kirk Hinrich/Luke Ridnour caliber starting PG, or MAYBE a Chalmers/Avery Johnson type guy, who if surrounded by superstars can succeed in that 5th wheel role, who just gets everyone the ball, plays great defense, and makes winning plays.

That's only if he meets his absolute max potential though. Most likely he will be a solid backup like you said.

Warspite · Post #11 » by **Warspite** » Fri May 30, 2014 7:14 pm

D-League star is his ceiling. I dont expect him to be in the NBA after next season.

Billl · Post #12 » by **Billl** » Fri May 30, 2014 7:28 pm

Q00 wrote:
Natopher wrote:I love Peyton Siva. He's a player that I think is more talented than what he's been allowed to show. There were games last year where he looked really good and I would be pretty excited if he was our backup PG next year. I don't think he'll ever be anything more than a very solid backup PG, but that's pretty dang good for a 2nd round pick.

I could see him being like a Kirk Hinrich/Luke Ridnour caliber starting PG, or MAYBE a Chalmers/Avery Johnson type guy, who if surrounded by superstars can succeed in that 5th wheel role, who just gets everyone the ball, plays great defense, and makes winning plays.

That's only if he meets his absolute max potential though. Most likely he will be a solid backup like you said.

As a rookie, chalmer put up 10/5 on 42% and 37% from 3. Hinrich 12/7 on 39% and 39%. Siva is at 2/1 on 31%, 28%. Siva has to improve a TON just to get to journeyman status.

Q00 · Post #13 » by **Q00** » Fri May 30, 2014 8:02 pm

Billl wrote:
Q00 wrote:
Natopher wrote:I love Peyton Siva. He's a player that I think is more talented than what he's been allowed to show. There were games last year where he looked really good and I would be pretty excited if he was our backup PG next year. I don't think he'll ever be anything more than a very solid backup PG, but that's pretty dang good for a 2nd round pick.

I could see him being like a Kirk Hinrich/Luke Ridnour caliber starting PG, or MAYBE a Chalmers/Avery Johnson type guy, who if surrounded by superstars can succeed in that 5th wheel role, who just gets everyone the ball, plays great defense, and makes winning plays.

That's only if he meets his absolute max potential though. Most likely he will be a solid backup like you said.

As a rookie, chalmer put up 10/5 on 42% and 37% from 3. Hinrich 12/7 on 39% and 39%. Siva is at 2/1 on 31%, 28%. Siva has to improve a TON just to get to journeyman status.

Chalmers also started 82 games playing 32 mpg. Hinrich started 66 games (played 76 total) and avg 36 mpg.

So you can't use stats to compare them to Siva when he only played 9 mpg off the bench and 24 games total

My comparison has nothing to do with stats. I simply think Siva has the overall talent/IQ to be as good as them if he reaches his potential.

HotelVitale · Post #14 » by **HotelVitale** » Fri May 30, 2014 9:16 pm

jakebernat wrote:he never got a legitimate chance to prove his worth. However, during the final month or so of last season, he got his opportunity. Once again, he was making the same high-IQ plays that we saw him make in the Summer League and showing his teeth defensively. Hell, he even showcased a much improved jumper, even if it was still average at best. That just goes to show the mindset of Siva: He wasn't getting the playing time, and he could've packed it in and just coasted through the season, but he kept at it and did whatever it took to get himself on the court.

I hate to put to fine a point on it, but Siva was really really bad this year. He shot 31% from the field (28% from three), fouled a ton, turned the ball over a lot, and had atrocious assist numbers for a PG. He'll also be 24 years old by the time next season starts.

He was just a rookie and he was chosen for his attitude and work ethic, and sometimes guys make an unexpected leap. But he's facing a long slog uphill to make it in this league.

Kilo · Post #15 » by **Kilo** » Fri May 30, 2014 9:21 pm

End of the bench third string point guard, great teammate, towel waver extraordinaire.

Q00 · Post #16 » by **Q00** » Fri May 30, 2014 9:29 pm

HotelVitale wrote:
jakebernat wrote:he never got a legitimate chance to prove his worth. However, during the final month or so of last season, he got his opportunity. Once again, he was making the same high-IQ plays that we saw him make in the Summer League and showing his teeth defensively. Hell, he even showcased a much improved jumper, even if it was still average at best. That just goes to show the mindset of Siva: He wasn't getting the playing time, and he could've packed it in and just coasted through the season, but he kept at it and did whatever it took to get himself on the court.

I hate to put to fine a point on it, but Siva was really really bad this year. He shot 31% from the field (28% from three), fouled a ton, turned the ball over a lot, and had atrocious assist numbers for a PG. He'll also be 24 years old by the time next season starts.

He was just a rookie and he was chosen for his attitude and work ethic, and sometimes guys make an unexpected leap. But he's facing a long slog uphill to make it in this league.

Siva took 2 shots per game (one 2PA & one 3PA). Why are you using FG% for a player who took such low attempts?

If he made one of those two shots per game instead, would you say he was really really good because he shot 50%?

Way too small of a sample size to use stats to say he wasn't good. Like jakebernat said, he has a positive effect on games and does a lot of the little things that don't show up in stats anyways. Even if he gets 25-30 mpg he likely won't ever be a big stat player, but he's the type of player that helps you win games.

HotelVitale · Post #17 » by **HotelVitale** » Fri May 30, 2014 10:20 pm

Q00 wrote:Siva took 2 shots per game (one 2PA & one 3PA). Why are you using FG% for a player who took such low attempts?
If he made one of those two shots per game instead, would you say he was really really good because he shot 50%?
Way too small of a sample size to use stats to say he wasn't good. Like jakebernat said, he has a positive effect on games and does a lot of the little things that don't show up in stats anyways. Even if he gets 25-30 mpg he likely won't ever be a big stat player, but he's the type of player that helps you win games.

It's a small enough sample size to treat it with caution, but he took 57 shots in the NBA and made 31% of them. There's no way to see that as a positive sign. I'm not condemning his career but I don't think it's unfair to say he was really really bad as a NBA player this year. Also even if you set aside his FG%, he wasn't good at other things. He wasn't a Ricky Rubio type who showed great court awareness and vision and just couldn't put the ball in the hole; he racked up 34 assists to 18 TOs, and also had 27 fouls. Those numbers don't suggest he made plays well or read plays well on balance.

Yeah, if he stops turning the ball over, fouling, and missing shots, then he'll be a useful player. But that seems like a long way off at the moment. It'd be great if he reaches his absolute ceiling, and I'm really pulling for that. I love watching guys who can play, even if it's little known guys that don't get much pub like Ramon Sessions or Eric Maynor when he was on the Jazz. Just saying that he hasn't given anything but the smallest reason to hope he can become that kind of player compared to other NBA rookies and prospects.

Pharaoh · Post #18 » by **Pharaoh** » Fri May 30, 2014 11:24 pm

How can anyone have a legit opinion on Siva? Dude hasn't played enough for anyone to work out a career trajectory

Right now he's a 3rd stringer. Could he be more than that? I've got no freaking idea

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kurtis48239 · Post #19 » by **kurtis48239** » Sat May 31, 2014 1:15 am

I think his absolute ceiling is backup pg.The real question is who will be better between siva/mitchell and if mitchell will show something this season and produce.

Minas · Post #20 » by **Minas** » Sat May 31, 2014 1:51 am

Q00 wrote:I think he might've been the best rookie from that class this year. His defense is just as good as KCPs. So its funny that people are saying Siva is going to be out of the league, yet think KCP is going to be a longterm fixture at SG just because of his defense.

I still think Siva has a chance to be a starting PG in this league. Most likely he will be a backup, but even then he should be able to have a long career off the bench because he defends and plays the right way.

Are you serious?