Official Trade Thread - Part XXVII

[dckingsfan]

Pels trade: Withey, rights to Jackson,
Pels get: Webster

Pels get their desperately needed wing shooter -- a need heightened by Anthony Morrow's (45% from 3) decision to opt out of his contract

Bucks trade: Ersan "fish's Morris Almond + Laron Profit all rolled up into one" Ilyasova
Bucks get: rights to Pierre Jackson

Bucks get an unhappy guy out of town for a fresh start and clear his salary to aid their rebuild. They add Jackson, who could grow into a nice scoring spark off the bench

Wiz trade: Webster
Wiz get: Ilyasova, Withey

Wiz get the stretch big that may have won them the Indiana series, and a guy that can help keep Nene's minutes down. Withey had a late first round grade in YODA and didn't have a bad rookie year. He has upside as a rim protecting center, and could grow into a competent backup or a Brendan Haywood type.

Re-sign Gortat, Ariza, Gooden
Say a fond farewell to Booker, Singleton, Seraphin

Then you have

Wall/Dr. Dre
Beal/MLE/Rice
Ariza/Porter
Nene/Ersan/Gooden
Gortat/Gooden/Withey

You have a 2nd round pick and the MLE with which out the roster. I'd go hard after Patty Mills with the MLE, but assuming you can't get him, grab one of Meeks, Morrow CJ Miles, etc. Then shop in the bargain bins for another backup big and a third ballhandler.

Note that without Booker, maybe we don't win the series vs. the Bulls, so that benefit vs. Indiana evaporates.

Just sayin'.... Doesn't mean I wouldn't want to have Ilyasova and Withey for Webster.

I also worry about which Ilyasova we will get - he played pretty poorly last year - and he never plays 82 games.

[floppymoose]

I don't think the CBA governs how little salary a team came take back, just how much.

it governs the maximum, but in both directions. This effectively also creates a minimum. the percentages and deltas depend on how much total salary is being traded, and whether the teams are in the tax, but as an example, one of the possibilities is that a team can only take in up to 125% of what they sent out, plus $100,000. There is no minimum specified, but there is one implied, because if they take in a lot less than what went out, the *other* team will be violating the maximum.

[gambitx777]

Here is what I think would be a decent set of moves,
Miller for illyasolva straight up. This is a decent lateral move for both team. He wants out and might play better ball for us as a starter allowing nene to come off the bench. Miller can be bought out and sent on his way and it saves them a ton of money long term. I am not a big Illyasolva fan, but That would be an OK deal with me. We are not really giving anything of major value up for him either.

Then we move Webster for Whitney and Jackson. We save money this time and get some nice young bench depth and this gives NO a vet 3.

The cash evens out and we actually might save a mill or so. More importantly, we add a lot of depth. Not only by bringing in Whitney and Jackson but we ad depth by moving NENE to the bench and keeping his legs more fresh from time to time.

[LyricalRico]

Here is what I think would be a decent set of moves,
Miller for illyasolva straight up. This is a decent lateral move for both team. He wants out and might play better ball for us as a starter allowing nene to come off the bench. Miller can be bought out and sent on his way and it saves them a ton of money long term. I am not a big Illyasolva fan, but That would be an OK deal with me. We are not really giving anything of major value up for him either.

Then we move Webster for Whitney and Jackson. We save money this time and get some nice young bench depth and this gives NO a vet 3.

The cash evens out and we actually might save a mill or so. More importantly, we add a lot of depth. Not only by bringing in Whitney and Jackson but we ad depth by moving NENE to the bench and keeping his legs more fresh from time to time.

Simple yet feasible moves if they want to go all in with this group. Ersan is owed more than Webster in 2016, but assuming we pay Gortat and Ariza market value that won't matter as much. At that point bring back either Gooden or Booker for one year, and then find a reliable backup SG.


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[mhd]

My latest:

Wiz trade: Nene for Jason Terry (expiring)+Brandon Bass (expiring)
Bos trades: #17+Bass (expiring) for Carl Landry+#8 (from Kings)
SAC trades: #8+Landry+Terry for Nene+#17

Sac gets a vet in Nene who can play off of Boogie, while banging with the centers. They get rid of Landry's longterm deal.

Bos agrees to take Landry's bad deal to move up 9 slots.

Wiz get expirings and a decent PF replacement in Bass for Nene.

[gambitx777]

Here is what I think would be a decent set of moves,
Miller for illyasolva straight up. This is a decent lateral move for both team. He wants out and might play better ball for us as a starter allowing nene to come off the bench. Miller can be bought out and sent on his way and it saves them a ton of money long term. I am not a big Illyasolva fan, but That would be an OK deal with me. We are not really giving anything of major value up for him either.

Then we move Webster for Whitney and Jackson. We save money this time and get some nice young bench depth and this gives NO a vet 3.

The cash evens out and we actually might save a mill or so. More importantly, we add a lot of depth. Not only by bringing in Whitney and Jackson but we ad depth by moving NENE to the bench and keeping his legs more fresh from time to time.

Simple yet feasible moves if they want to go all in with this group. Ersan is owed more than Webster in 2016, but assuming we pay Gortat and Ariza market value that won't matter as much. At that point bring back either Gooden or Booker for one year, and then find a reliable backup SG.


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Well I think we have a good team and other than up grading NENE, witch will be hard until we can move his deal in a year when it becomes an expiring, what else are we realistically going to do that won't some how hinder what made us good this year. miller and web are expendable assets, and I feel that Rice and Porter can fill the void at 3 and 2, I think this is the year we give Tomas a shot as well. I think if we shy off of Illyasolva, we should offer miller or who ever to the grizz for an ed davis sign and trade and try to work that angle.

it's not that I don't want a huge move, I just don't see us pulling one off right now without giving too much.I think we can make it back to the play offs with a more experienced beal and wall and a younger, upgraded and revamped bench.

[Hidden Eye]

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=lsd6ahj

Nene it's time to go.

[Ruzious]

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=lsd6ahj

Nene it's time to go.

Wow, that's bad for the Bucks. They're rebuilding, so why do they trade Sanders for Nene. They can simply let Sessions and Udoh go - they're not contractually obligated to them.

[Hidden Eye]

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=lsd6ahj

Nene it's time to go.

Wow, that's bad for the Bucks. They're rebuilding, so why do they trade Sanders for Nene. They can simply let Sessions and Udoh go - they're not contractually obligated to them.

Veteran presence for Bucks lockeroom and it would move Gortat to PF. Sanders said he would put a lot of work for Summer I'm sure there would be more incentive being paired up with Wall. Got to try something to work. Nene's contract is big so you could get a lot or something that matches it/better. Somebody would bite obtaining Nene.

[thinker07]

Some thoughts about some of the recent comments -

1) Miller's contract has to be picked up by June 30 or bought out for $2 million. It's not clear whether we could actually trade him without picking up his option. I think the finances are such that the Wiz will keep Miller. Buying out Miller and then having to sign a replacement only ends up - maybe - saving something over $1 million. Also given a) how well Miller stabilized the second unit and b) the long painful search for a suitable backup PG over the last 3 years -- the Wiz keep him

2) I'll never get over the sting of the Vesely, Singleton and Mack draft. If we could get quality bench minutes from Otto, Rice and Satoransky next year I'd feel a little better about EG. Not forgiven - just less agonizing about what might have been.

3) I see NO POSSIBILITY of the Wiz trading for someone like Larry Sanders. The team has spent too much time and effort trying to rid itself of character/maturity issue players. They are just not going to take a chance of screwing up team chemistry.

4) I too used to have a mancrush on Ilyasova - but mostly the one from 2 or 3 years ago. His injuries and inconsistent effort and $7+ million salary makes me less interested. I also remember seeing speculation when he was becoming a FA that he may have lied about his age coming out of Europe and that he was actually a couple of years older than reported - obviously I don't know if that's true but it is a concern. In the end I think Wit is going to want to start Gortat (if he resigns) and Nene. So is $7 mill too much for a stretch 4 off the bench? I think it is.

[mhd]

My latest:

Wiz trade Nene+Webster for Ryan Anderson+Marcus Thornton
NO trades: Anderson+Gordon+Rivers for Brook Lopez+Teletovich+Webster
Nets trade: Lopez+Thornton+Teletovich for Nene+Gordon+Rivers

NEW LINEUPS:
Wiz:
PG: Wall/Miller
SG: Beal/Thornton/Rice
SF: Ariza/Porter
PF: Anderson/Gooden
C: Gortat/Seraphin

NO:
PG: Holliday/Roberts
SG: Evans/Morrow
SF: Webster/Aminu
PF: Davis/Teletovich
C: Lopez/Whitey

Nets:
PG: Williams/Livingston
SG: Gordon/Rivers
SF: Johnson/Pierce
PF: Nene/AK
C: KG/Plumlee

[fishercob]

I don't think the CBA governs how little salary a team came take back, just how much.

it governs the maximum, but in both directions. This effectively also creates a minimum. the percentages and deltas depend on how much total salary is being traded, and whether the teams are in the tax, but as an example, one of the possibilities is that a team can only take in up to 125% of what they sent out, plus $100,000. There is no minimum specified, but there is one implied, because if they take in a lot less than what went out, the *other* team will be violating the maximum.

Unless that team can absorb the incoming salary into their cap space -- which New Orleans could in the trade in question.

[fishercob]

Pels trade: Withey, rights to Jackson,
Pels get: Webster

Pels get their desperately needed wing shooter -- a need heightened by Anthony Morrow's (45% from 3) decision to opt out of his contract

Bucks trade: Ersan "fish's Morris Almond + Laron Profit all rolled up into one" Ilyasova
Bucks get: rights to Pierre Jackson

Bucks get an unhappy guy out of town for a fresh start and clear his salary to aid their rebuild. They add Jackson, who could grow into a nice scoring spark off the bench

Wiz trade: Webster
Wiz get: Ilyasova, Withey

Wiz get the stretch big that may have won them the Indiana series, and a guy that can help keep Nene's minutes down. Withey had a late first round grade in YODA and didn't have a bad rookie year. He has upside as a rim protecting center, and could grow into a competent backup or a Brendan Haywood type.

Re-sign Gortat, Ariza, Gooden
Say a fond farewell to Booker, Singleton, Seraphin

Then you have

Wall/Dr. Dre
Beal/MLE/Rice
Ariza/Porter
Nene/Ersan/Gooden
Gortat/Gooden/Withey

You have a 2nd round pick and the MLE with which out the roster. I'd go hard after Patty Mills with the MLE, but assuming you can't get him, grab one of Meeks, Morrow CJ Miles, etc. Then shop in the bargain bins for another backup big and a third ballhandler.

Note that without Booker, maybe we don't win the series vs. the Bulls, so that benefit vs. Indiana evaporates.

Just sayin'.... Doesn't mean I wouldn't want to have Ilyasova and Withey for Webster.

Believe me, it is noted -- by me, at least. I dont understand how Wittman was given a complete pass by the local media for completely burying Booker against Indiana after the series he had against Chicago.

[Nivek]

Believe me, it is noted -- by me, at least. I dont understand how Wittman was given a complete pass by the local media for completely burying Booker against Indiana after the series he had against Chicago.

Because, S.S. Narrative. The Wizards won in the 1st round and Wittman had been Officially Designated as having done a good job. It's hard to turn a cruise liner as big as Narrative that quickly.

Plus, I think Booker is widely viewed as a scrub, not as the fairly productive player he is.

So, newly-designated "good" coach + benching of a scrub = no one cares.

[gambitx777]

Well on the topic of booker, its just to bad that hes 6'8. and not 6'10. could he have helped us against the pacers, maybe, but Wittman had a decent game plan, he does need to get better at in game adjustments. You have to realize that we just had a massive melt down in the game 6 when we could have won that game if we held it together. I don't see Booker doing anything to change that. He might have been a difference maker in the close losses but, its neither here nor there at this point.

Now who could we bring in to upgrade booker? Ryan Kelly maybe? Arinze Onuaku? some one in the draft? Ed davis?

[verbal8]

Some thoughts about some of the recent comments -

1) Miller's contract has to be picked up by June 30 or bought out for $2 million. It's not clear whether we could actually trade him without picking up his option. I think the finances are such that the Wiz will keep Miller. Buying out Miller and then having to sign a replacement only ends up - maybe - saving something over $1 million. Also given a) how well Miller stabilized the second unit and b) the long painful search for a suitable backup PG over the last 3 years -- the Wiz keep him

He can be traded but I think the Wizards end up keeping him next year. The only scenario I could see him traded in would be one where the team offers Webster and the team on the other side prefers salary cap relief. Short of a productive combo guard being available for the vet min, I don't see any benefit in waiving Miller vs. keeping him.

2) I'll never get over the sting of the Vesely, Singleton and Mack draft. If we could get quality bench minutes from Otto, Rice and Satoransky next year I'd feel a little better about EG. Not forgiven - just less agonizing about what might have been.

Agreed.

3) I see NO POSSIBILITY of the Wiz trading for someone like Larry Sanders. The team has spent too much time and effort trying to rid itself of character/maturity issue players. They are just not going to take a chance of screwing up team chemistry.

4) I too used to have a mancrush on Ilyasova - but mostly the one from 2 or 3 years ago. His injuries and inconsistent effort and $7+ million salary makes me less interested. I also remember seeing speculation when he was becoming a FA that he may have lied about his age coming out of Europe and that he was actually a couple of years older than reported - obviously I don't know if that's true but it is a concern. In the end I think Wit is going to want to start Gortat (if he resigns) and Nene. So is $7 mill too much for a stretch 4 off the bench? I think it is.

Nene misses a lot of games and minutes. He also plays a lot of back-up Center(he is roughly 50/50 PF/C as a Wizard). Adding Ersan is likely giving you more minutes at PF even if he isn't the official starter. I think you can still justify keeping Booker cheap. Maybe it means Gooden walks, but their may be enough minutes available at Center to interest him in resigning.

Sanders would be a bit more risky, but also would have more potential reward. I also think the asking price would be higher than what the Wizards should pay.

[popper]

Believe me, it is noted -- by me, at least. I dont understand how Wittman was given a complete pass by the local media for completely burying Booker against Indiana after the series he had against Chicago.

Because, S.S. Narrative. The Wizards won in the 1st round and Wittman had been Officially Designated as having done a good job. It's hard to turn a cruise liner as big as Narrative that quickly.

Plus, I think Booker is widely viewed as a scrub, not as the fairly productive player he is.

So, newly-designated "good" coach + benching of a scrub = no one cares.

Classic.

[thinker07]

Some thoughts about some of the recent comments -

1) Miller's contract has to be picked up by June 30 or bought out for $2 million. It's not clear whether we could actually trade him without picking up his option. I think the finances are such that the Wiz will keep Miller. Buying out Miller and then having to sign a replacement only ends up - maybe - saving something over $1 million. Also given a) how well Miller stabilized the second unit and b) the long painful search for a suitable backup PG over the last 3 years -- the Wiz keep him

He can be traded but I think the Wizards end up keeping him next year. The only scenario I could see him traded in would be one where the team offers Webster and the team on the other side prefers salary cap relief. Short of a productive combo guard being available for the vet min, I don't see any benefit in waiving Miller vs. keeping him.

2) I'll never get over the sting of the Vesely, Singleton and Mack draft. If we could get quality bench minutes from Otto, Rice and Satoransky next year I'd feel a little better about EG. Not forgiven - just less agonizing about what might have been.

Agreed.

3) I see NO POSSIBILITY of the Wiz trading for someone like Larry Sanders. The team has spent too much time and effort trying to rid itself of character/maturity issue players. They are just not going to take a chance of screwing up team chemistry.

4) I too used to have a mancrush on Ilyasova - but mostly the one from 2 or 3 years ago. His injuries and inconsistent effort and $7+ million salary makes me less interested. I also remember seeing speculation when he was becoming a FA that he may have lied about his age coming out of Europe and that he was actually a couple of years older than reported - obviously I don't know if that's true but it is a concern. In the end I think Wit is going to want to start Gortat (if he resigns) and Nene. So is $7 mill too much for a stretch 4 off the bench? I think it is.

Nene misses a lot of games and minutes. He also plays a lot of back-up Center(he is roughly 50/50 PF/C as a Wizard). Adding Ersan is likely giving you more minutes at PF even if he isn't the official starter. I think you can still justify keeping Booker cheap. Maybe it means Gooden walks, but their may be enough minutes available at Center to interest him in resigning.

Sanders would be a bit more risky, but also would have more potential reward. I also think the asking price would be higher than what the Wizards should pay.

My issue on Miller is whether we can trade him prior to June 30 without exercising his option. In reading over Larry Coon's FAQ there is a point that ending contracts and contracts that are subject to an option or ETO that can be exercised ending the contract can't be traded. I'm not wonkish enough on this stuff to know whether this applies in Miller's case. The point being that if the option has to be exercised prior to being able to trade him - then the other team wouldn't be able to simply cut Miller and save the balance of the contract over the $2 million buyout. That would severely limit the trade value of Miller.

My biggest point on Ilyasova is the cost - if he cost less it would be a no brainer. The issue is can we really pay him $7+ mil if we resign Gortat @ 11 ish mil, Ariza @ $ 8 ish mil, Nene at $13 mil, Wall, Beal, Otto etc. Then you keep Miller @ $4+ mil and fill out the rest of the roster. I don't know how you fit Ilyasova into that roster capwise - even if you trade out Webster.

[fishercob]

Some thoughts about some of the recent comments -

1) Miller's contract has to be picked up by June 30 or bought out for $2 million. It's not clear whether we could actually trade him without picking up his option. I think the finances are such that the Wiz will keep Miller. Buying out Miller and then having to sign a replacement only ends up - maybe - saving something over $1 million. Also given a) how well Miller stabilized the second unit and b) the long painful search for a suitable backup PG over the last 3 years -- the Wiz keep him

He can be traded but I think the Wizards end up keeping him next year. The only scenario I could see him traded in would be one where the team offers Webster and the team on the other side prefers salary cap relief. Short of a productive combo guard being available for the vet min, I don't see any benefit in waiving Miller vs. keeping him.

2) I'll never get over the sting of the Vesely, Singleton and Mack draft. If we could get quality bench minutes from Otto, Rice and Satoransky next year I'd feel a little better about EG. Not forgiven - just less agonizing about what might have been.

Agreed.

3) I see NO POSSIBILITY of the Wiz trading for someone like Larry Sanders. The team has spent too much time and effort trying to rid itself of character/maturity issue players. They are just not going to take a chance of screwing up team chemistry.

4) I too used to have a mancrush on Ilyasova - but mostly the one from 2 or 3 years ago. His injuries and inconsistent effort and $7+ million salary makes me less interested. I also remember seeing speculation when he was becoming a FA that he may have lied about his age coming out of Europe and that he was actually a couple of years older than reported - obviously I don't know if that's true but it is a concern. In the end I think Wit is going to want to start Gortat (if he resigns) and Nene. So is $7 mill too much for a stretch 4 off the bench? I think it is.

Nene misses a lot of games and minutes. He also plays a lot of back-up Center(he is roughly 50/50 PF/C as a Wizard). Adding Ersan is likely giving you more minutes at PF even if he isn't the official starter. I think you can still justify keeping Booker cheap. Maybe it means Gooden walks, but their may be enough minutes available at Center to interest him in resigning.

Sanders would be a bit more risky, but also would have more potential reward. I also think the asking price would be higher than what the Wizards should pay.

My issue on Miller is whether we can trade him prior to June 30 without exercising his option. In reading over Larry Coon's FAQ there is a point that ending contracts and contracts that are subject to an option or ETO that can be exercised ending the contract can't be traded. I'm not wonkish enough on this stuff to know whether this applies in Miller's case. The point being that if the option has to be exercised prior to being able to trade him - then the other team wouldn't be able to simply cut Miller and save the balance of the contract over the $2 million buyout. That would severely limit the trade value of Miller.

My biggest point on Ilyasova is the cost - if he cost less it would be a no brainer. The issue is can we really pay him $7+ mil if we resign Gortat @ 11 ish mil, Ariza @ $ 8 ish mil, Nene at $13 mil, Wall, Beal, Otto etc. Then you keep Miller @ $4+ mil and fill out the rest of the roster. I don't know how you fit Ilyasova into that roster capwise - even if you trade out Webster.

The increase in the luxury tax should give us room to add Ilyasova and use at least some of the MLE, if not all. His salary -- $7.9M -- is part of what likely makes him available. While it would be great if he cost us less, the good news is that if he returns to his pre '13-'14 production levels -- and there is ample reason to believe he can and should -- he's worth every bit of his salary and more.

[gambitx777]

I don't think we get ride of NENE, I don't see a trade that works for us with a team that would take him.

I think it might be worth a call to boston. something like Bogans , wallace, and one of Olynyk or sullinger for NENE, and filler such as second round picks, and over seas draft rights. We should have the room to do it once our contracts come off the books, then we can just cut brogans and we will save a mill over keeping NENE, and maybe get lucky and talk Wallace into a buy out of some kind. I think that boston would much rather have NENE who is usable over wallace who is worthless. But honestly, its a long shot and It would take some doing to convince boston to do it. But the abundance of forwards in the top of the draft might get boston to pull the trigger. This could be a very good move for us if we can get rid of Wallace.