2014 NBA Draft Prospects Thread #5 | Raps picking 20th

[sweetcity]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBpUiO-bxz0[/youtube]
Payton's game resembles some what to Shaun Livingstone. He's good for slashing and kicking the ball out but he's no knock down shooter. Gaurds would back away and dare him to shoot. It would probably take a year or 2 before he became a consistent knock down shooter if ever at all. His bread and butter will always be on the defensive side.

He does have great shooting mechanics and should be able to become a better shooter in the future imo.

anyone else feel like the more you watch this kid the more you want him? I really do think he would work well with Vasquez in the 2nd unit. Casey loves to have 2 ball handlers and Payton is big enough and good enough defensively that he can guard some 2's. I would have Payton guard the better offensive player between the 1 and the 2 and have Vasquez guard the other. Vasquez matches up well with SGs because of his size (6'6).

PG: Lowry (33) / Payton (15)

SG: Derozan (24) / Vasquez (24)

SF: Ross (27) / Derozan (10) / Inglis (11)

PF: Amir (23) / Patterson (25)

C: Val (28) / Amir (5) / C (15)

i really think that above lineup works.

I dont think Inglis will come over for next year - he's a stash pick, which is why I think he goes in the 35-45 range

[Risk101]

anyone else feel like the more you watch this kid the more you want him? I really do think he would work well with Vasquez in the 2nd unit. Casey loves to have 2 ball handlers and Payton is big enough and good enough defensively that he can guard some 2's. I would have Payton guard the better offensive player between the 1 and the 2 and have Vasquez guard the other. Vasquez matches up well with SGs because of his size (6'6).

PG: Lowry (33) / Payton (15)

SG: Derozan (24) / Vasquez (24)

SF: Ross (27) / Derozan (10) / Inglis (11)

PF: Amir (23) / Patterson (25)

C: Val (28) / Amir (5) / C (15)

i really think that above lineup works.

It would be a gamble but he could fit well with Vasquez. I still like NDC as a better option with Vasquez during Paytons rookie year, assuming we pick him, because I don't think he would be able to contribute right away. Casey does have a way of developing young talent but he basically kept JV and TRoss on a tight string their rookie years. His first step and the way he can handle the rock really impresses me.

The guys avg 19pts 6rebs 5ast and 2.5 stls his last season in college. He can do a bit of everything.

[raptor jesus]

anyone else feel like the more you watch this kid the more you want him? I really do think he would work well with Vasquez in the 2nd unit. Casey loves to have 2 ball handlers and Payton is big enough and good enough defensively that he can guard some 2's. I would have Payton guard the better offensive player between the 1 and the 2 and have Vasquez guard the other. Vasquez matches up well with SGs because of his size (6'6).

PG: Lowry (33) / Payton (15)

SG: Derozan (24) / Vasquez (24)

SF: Ross (27) / Derozan (10) / Inglis (11)

PF: Amir (23) / Patterson (25)

C: Val (28) / Amir (5) / C (15)

i really think that above lineup works.

Yeah, I agree. Although we have a solid PG rotation - assuming Lowry and Vas are back - we're still missing a pesky on ball defender at that position. Payton could fill that role, and playing alongside Vas would allow him to solely focus on that role while Vas runs the show. Then you can delegate more ball handling duties to Payton as he becomes more comfortable.

[Indeed]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBpUiO-bxz0[/youtube]
Payton's game resembles some what to Shaun Livingstone. He's good for slashing and kicking the ball out but he's no knock down shooter. Gaurds would back away and dare him to shoot. It would probably take a year or 2 before he became a consistent knock down shooter if ever at all. His bread and butter will always be on the defensive side.

He does have great shooting mechanics and should be able to become a better shooter in the future imo.

anyone else feel like the more you watch this kid the more you want him? I really do think he would work well with Vasquez in the 2nd unit. Casey loves to have 2 ball handlers and Payton is big enough and good enough defensively that he can guard some 2's. I would have Payton guard the better offensive player between the 1 and the 2 and have Vasquez guard the other. Vasquez matches up well with SGs because of his size (6'6).

PG: Lowry (33) / Payton (15)

SG: Derozan (24) / Vasquez (24)

SF: Ross (27) / Derozan (10) / Inglis (11)

PF: Amir (23) / Patterson (25)

C: Val (28) / Amir (5) / C (15)

i really think that above lineup works.

I like Payton, and I think he would be a nice addition. However, we are very weak in PF, not sure if we are looking for a trade to upgrade the PF. Maybe DeRozan or Ross can trade us a scoring PF to help on the offense.


PG: Lowry (33) / Payton [#20] (15)
SG: [Derozan or Ross] (12) / Vasquez (28) / De Colo (8)
SF: [Derozan or Ross] (18) / Inglis [#37] (20)
PF: [Traded] (25) / Patterson (23) / [#59]
C: Val (25) / Amir (23) / [#59]

[anj]

#20- Payton
#37- Inglis
#59- Powell

You have just quoted a perfect draft right there.... if only the world worked that way. Those are all Spur's types of picks

Inglis and Powell yes, payton no. Spurs don't draft pgs that can't shoot, ever. Neither should we for that matter.

Tony Parker was an awful shooter when he entered the league - still not that great. It's also Cory Joseph's biggest weakness.

[Dukenukem23]

You have just quoted a perfect draft right there.... if only the world worked that way. Those are all Spur's types of picks

Inglis and Powell yes, payton no. Spurs don't draft pgs that can't shoot, ever. Neither should we for that matter.

Tony Parker was an awful shooter when he entered the league - still not that great. It's also Cory Joseph's biggest weakness.

Both had much better ft%, joseph shot 41% from three in college. Payton is a 59% FT and 25% 3pt he's beyond awful as a shooter.

[CPT]

Payton looks good in that video, but then again, so does everyone. Would love to see a full workout without the editing.

Still not sure what his realistic projection is. I've seen Rondo and Devin Harris. I've thrown Avery Bradley's name out there with no takers.

He's on my list of guys I'd be cool with taking at #20, but that list probably has 5-10 names on it, and I'd like to narrow it down.

[OAKLEY_2]

anyone else feel like the more you watch this kid the more you want him? I really do think he would work well with Vasquez in the 2nd unit. Casey loves to have 2 ball handlers and Payton is big enough and good enough defensively that he can guard some 2's. I would have Payton guard the better offensive player between the 1 and the 2 and have Vasquez guard the other. Vasquez matches up well with SGs because of his size (6'6).

PG: Lowry (33) / Payton (15)

SG: Derozan (24) / Vasquez (24)

SF: Ross (27) / Derozan (10) / Inglis (11)

PF: Amir (23) / Patterson (25)

C: Val (28) / Amir (5) / C (15)

i really think that above lineup works.

It would be a gamble but he could fit well with Vasquez. I still like NDC as a better option with Vasquez during Paytons rookie year, assuming we pick him, because I don't think he would be able to contribute right away. Casey does have a way of developing young talent but he basically kept JV and TRoss on a tight string their rookie years. His first step and the way he can handle the rock really impresses me.

The guys avg 19pts 6rebs 5ast and 2.5 stls his last season in college. He can do a bit of everything.

They likely would send a developing player to the D league early and often.

[ATLTimekeeper]

Doug Smith has officially lost it.
Today on PTS he said the Stokes is a guy we might select at #20 and said Wiggins fits best in Milwaukee because they have a really good PG in Jennings.

The Jennings comment is absurdly lazy, but don't be surprised if Stokes goes higher than he's currently projected. He's young for his experience level and might be the best rebounder in the draft. Not my idea of a great pick at 20, but I think he'll have his fans (like DeJuan Blair back in the day, who was projected to go in the lottery until the knee stuff caused him to slide). I'd bet Doug actually heard from sources that the Raps like Stokes more than something he just made up, because let's face it, I doubt he knows who Stokes is.

[Double Helix]

My Elfrid Payton comparisons.

Realistic projection: Brandon Knight with worse shooting and potentially better D.

Those who love him like to mention Rondo or Rubio but here's my take on both of those.

- Probably has 75-80% of Rondo's speed with the ball.
- Probably has 60% of Rubio's vision and creative passing.
- Upside on D but still probably ends up being like 70% of Rubio's D.

What does that all amount to? For me, it's Brandon Knight with a worse shot and better D. That sounds like a huge diss but Knight was a lotto pick. I think it's a fair comparison given the quality differences of the Sun Belt Conference and the SEC. Do people remember what Knight put up as a freshmen in a much better conference? He's an interesting prospect at 20 but I think some are getting a little carried away about his potential to be a star based primarily on his size and the numbers he put up in the Sun Belt. Don't get me wrong. I'm acknowledging that I think he's one of the prospects with considerable upside that could be there at 20 given how young he still is but I personally think his shot is going to need more work than Austin Rivers' did and that's saying something. I don't mind small conference star prospects but I want to see elite NBA transferable skills. Lillard hard a bunch. Namely shooting. This kid doesn't have that. Many of the things he's doing to score in that conference against small PFs and Cs are going to get swatted away in the NBA. Once the scouting reports come out on his poor shooting everyone will go under on him in pick and rolls. He will have to embrace the defensive role the way Avery Bradley did to earn significant minutes on the teams picking 20 or later because so many of those teams already have quality at that position (which is why they were playoff teams). Some will even have quality third stringers (6'3 PGs with talent like Dwight Buycks) pushing him daily who can knock down 3s where he can not). You look at the Spurs who recently gave up De Colo for very little and us who gave up Augustine for even less for two recent examples of the cheap competition he will face in the league. PG is perhaps second only to PF in terms of depth.

He has some nice tools but I don't see any one thing that he does amazing enough to stand out from the pack in a big way in the NBA. If he doesn't improve his shot substantially or commit to D what are you left with and how long do you wait? Seems like the type who won't figure it out until he's on his second or third NBA team sometime in his mid-twenties. He's intriguing but I'm hoping we can do better. If he shot it better I'd be more excited. Even Courtney Lee had efficiency on his side when he tore up the Sun Belt Conference a few years back on his way to a late first round pick. BTW, those SLAM vids only show makes and Payton's has the least long range shots I've seen in any of those vids yet. He also seems fatigued in the rapid fire dunk drill.

[AngryDad]

I wouldn't touch Payton with a 10 foot pole. Unless you have a combination elite athleticism, incredible speed, and just a great feel for the game, you need a jumper to be able to succeed at the point. He's not going to hit Rondo level, Rondo was much faster and played smarter than Payton.

I also think I saw someone compare him to Wall which is stupid. John Wall might be one of the best athletes in his position, he can get away with a mediocre shot.

The point guard generally has to stretch the floor, and be able to shoot it in late clock situations while handling it. He's not good enough to warrent basing a team off his skills and put shooters all around him to space the floor. I'd pass on him.

[baulderdash77]

DH is right. Payton has nice defensive potential but let's remember he played in the Sun Belt, not a major conference. Furthermore he has the very worst shooting and very worst TO% of any player in the entire draft.

Teams will press him early in the clock and try to make him make bad passes, then they will sag off him and dare him to shoot. On a pick and roll everyone will go under and hope he shoots. He can't even shoot FT's! It's a big IF that he will be able to go from worst shooter in the draft to NBA quality as a shooter.

I did a search of players who have his shooting #'s and his TO #'s in college basketball history. Guess what- you've never heard of any of them.

At #20 I really hope we have better options than a PG who can't shoot and who turns the ball over that much.
He has some nice skills but some of the holes in his game are so serious for a PG that he's almost a non prospect.

[sweetcity]

some great points made about Payton...

whats everyone's view on Kyle Anderson? I think if he is there at 20 we should jump.... that type of talent is hard to find and he can fill a couple needs on the 2nd unit

[Mediocrity]

I did not realize that Payton was that terrible of a shooter. Why the hell would you guys want him? He sounds like he is just as bad of a shooter as Rivers, probably worse. A PG who can not shoot is useless.

[AngryDad]

some great points made about Payton...

whats everyone's view on Kyle Anderson? I think if he is there at 20 we should jump.... that type of talent is hard to find and he can fill a couple needs on the 2nd unit

Honestly, I'm so fascinated with his skill set. A big guy like that who can create and organize an offence like that is special. But he's sooooo slow. If he at least had average quickness he would be top 10 in the draft IMO. He's not at the top of my list because I don't know how he's going to be able to defend or even get his own shot.

[DG88]

some great points made about Payton...

whats everyone's view on Kyle Anderson? I think if he is there at 20 we should jump.... that type of talent is hard to find and he can fill a couple needs on the 2nd unit

His terrible foot speed and lack of defense scares me though. Anderson height and size gave him an advantage in HS and college. It won't be that way in the NBA with more athletic and bigger players. He'll never be a starter but as a 6th man he may get by. I think he'd be better in a fast break offense where his lack of foot speed in the halfcourt setting would neutralize what he does best.

[Anatomize]

some great points made about Payton...

whats everyone's view on Kyle Anderson? I think if he is there at 20 we should jump.... that type of talent is hard to find and he can fill a couple needs on the 2nd unit

Honestly, I'm so fascinated with his skill set. A big guy like that who can create and organize an offence like that is special. But he's sooooo slow. If he at least had average quickness he would be top 10 in the draft IMO. He's not at the top of my list because I don't know how he's going to be able to defend or even get his own shot.

The speed thing would only be a hinderance defensively, and it's not as noticeable when he's facing opposing bench back up bigs. He'll easily out-skill most bench bigs around the NBA. Also, the speed thing is a tad overrated, high IQ players with a knack for creative passing, spot up shooting, and driving - always have a role in the league (look at Kidd once he lost any semblance of being able to blow by guys). I'm not a HUGE Anderson fan, but I certainly won't be disappointed if we picked him. The guy I'm enamored with is still KJ McDaniels. People also blow the size thing out of proportion, Tony Allen is 6'4, and he's made 6'10 Durant have some of his worst shooting games; by comparison, McDaniels is 6'6.. so I don't see what the issue is here.. BPG/SPG is off the charts, plays with intensity on both ends, knows his role, you can't ask for much more. Keep improving that catch and shoot, and you have one of the best 3 + D guys in the NBA within a few years with a ceiling for a little bit more than that.

[Dalek]

Doug Smith has officially lost it.
Today on PTS he said the Stokes is a guy we might select at #20 and said Wiggins fits best in Milwaukee because they have a really good PG in Jennings.

The Jennings comment is absurdly lazy, but don't be surprised if Stokes goes higher than he's currently projected. He's young for his experience level and might be the best rebounder in the draft. Not my idea of a great pick at 20, but I think he'll have his fans (like DeJuan Blair back in the day, who was projected to go in the lottery until the knee stuff caused him to slide). I'd bet Doug actually heard from sources that the Raps like Stokes more than something he just made up, because let's face it, I doubt he knows who Stokes is.

This. You nailed it because the fact that Doug Smith knows so little about NBA players, let alone college players, there might be something to this.

Stokes fits the bill in a few ways:
Best rebounder in college means he already has a NBA translatable skill
Young and improving (I think he is only 20 by the draft)
Unselfish - Passing is solid out of the post
Improves our overall physicality

Wolstat mentioned we have already worked him out and he could emulate a David West type of player. Indy 2.0 complete.

[Troubadour]

DH is right. Payton has nice defensive potential but let's remember he played in the Sun Belt, not a major conference. Furthermore he has the very worst shooting and very worst TO% of any player in the entire draft.

Teams will press him early in the clock and try to make him make bad passes, then they will sag off him and dare him to shoot. On a pick and roll everyone will go under and hope he shoots. He can't even shoot FT's! It's a big IF that he will be able to go from worst shooter in the draft to NBA quality as a shooter.

I did a search of players who have his shooting #'s and his TO #'s in college basketball history. Guess what- you've never heard of any of them.

At #20 I really hope we have better options than a PG who can't shoot and who turns the ball over that much.
He has some nice skills but some of the holes in his game are so serious for a PG that he's almost a non prospect.

Damian Lillard played in a small conference, too. Paul George played at Fresno State.

The raw ability doesn't change conference to conference. Payton projects to be an elite perimeter defender.

[Double Helix]

DH is right. Payton has nice defensive potential but let's remember he played in the Sun Belt, not a major conference. Furthermore he has the very worst shooting and very worst TO% of any player in the entire draft.

Teams will press him early in the clock and try to make him make bad passes, then they will sag off him and dare him to shoot. On a pick and roll everyone will go under and hope he shoots. He can't even shoot FT's! It's a big IF that he will be able to go from worst shooter in the draft to NBA quality as a shooter.

I did a search of players who have his shooting #'s and his TO #'s in college basketball history. Guess what- you've never heard of any of them.

At #20 I really hope we have better options than a PG who can't shoot and who turns the ball over that much.
He has some nice skills but some of the holes in his game are so serious for a PG that he's almost a non prospect.

Damian Lillard played in a small conference, too. Paul George played at Fresno State.

The raw ability doesn't change conference to conference. Payton projects to be an elite perimeter defender.

I actually addressed that fact and mentioned that I like small conference stars more than most usually. One of the things I often like about them is that they are typically double-teamed more so they're used to pressure. However, what I want to see is something elite that will translate from the jump to the next level. Lillard had his shooting to go along with his incredible physical tools. Lillard scored at a high volume on a 62% TS%! High volume scoring on that kind of a true shooting can translate and did somewhat translate because Lillard backed that shooting up with good size, speed, leaping ability and bball IQ for the position. Heck, I was making the case for Lillard at 8 in that draft back when he was projected to go past 15. Heck, I compared him to a poor man's Kyrie and projected his rookie PER to within a point. I know Lillard. I also know why he transitioned better to the pros than the last dominant prospect from the Big Sky did (Rodney Stuckey).

Payton's TS% the past couple years was 53 and 54%. He's a guy with some intriguing physical tools and talent that does some things at a good level but nothing at an elite level. Even defence, which is his probably the one thing that could keep him on the floor over all the other hungry, talented, cheap backup PGs out there, is still just an upside possibility rather than sowmthing to feel confident about. The defensive potential is there but will he embrace it? I saw far more defensive upside in Avery Bradley and wasn't at all surprised when he became an eite defensive pest.

Again, I like aspects of him as a prospect. Getting a guy a little like Brandon Knight with the 20th pick in the draft isn't anything to laugh off. I just hope we can do better and I think the reasons he's ranked where he is is fair given some of the question marks surrounding him. I don't even think he's that specialy athletically, if I'm honest. If he was a little more special in that way I would be more intrigued by him as a potential long-term investment but I'm hoping we can do better. He seems like a guy who will need to bounce around to a couple teams and find the right situation to reach his potential.