Is LBJ the greatest SF of all time?

HeatNationLA · Post #1 » by **HeatNationLA** » Sun Jun 1, 2014 6:21 pm

Saw this quote from Larry Legend in an article. Article is very interesting, tells us how similar both players are and yet how different they both are.

“I always said ‘boy I wish I had his speed,’” said Bird. “Kobe was always my favorite since he came out but LeBron is by far the best in the league.”

Full article: http://heatnation.com/editorials/the-gr ... -or-james/

xMADEinDADEx · Post #2 » by **xMADEinDADEx** » Sun Jun 1, 2014 6:36 pm

Not yet.
IMO lebron is among top 10 all time.

My top 10 goes: Jordan, Kareem, magic, bird, wilt, duncan, shaq, Kobe, lebron, Hakeem.

If he wins a ring, he'll shoot above Kobe obviously, and maybe shaq. Depends ok his production these finals.

Post #3 » by **mopper8** » Sun Jun 1, 2014 6:55 pm

easily IMO. The consensus best SF of all-time before Lebron is Larry Bird, who had injuries cut short his career.

Bird played 13 seasons, but missed all but 6 games for 1 of those, half of another, and was limited at the end because of those injuries. So what he really gave you were 9 true all-NBA caliber years, with 6 of them being at that superstar level if you dig down into it.

Lebron, at this point, has played 11 seasons, but came in young, so those first years are pretty worthless in comparison to a guy like Bird. You're talking with LBJ really ~ 8 years at that all-NBA level as well, already essentially tied with Larry Legend. If you consider 09 to be the first year Lebron got up to that peak level, you have 09-14 as peak years--6 years, just like Larry. Maybe 5 if you consider 11 a down year.

So basically, the longevity issue is a wash--Lebron has already given you as many quality seasons in this prime or at his peak as Bird did.

So the next question is peak level: is peak Lebron as good as, or better than, Bird? And the answer to that is definitively yes IMO. Lebron's offensive numbers essentially match/exceed Bird's, at the very least are comparable, and his impact is clearly in the same ballpark, but Lebron is simply in a different league defensively.

So Lebron is better at his peak, has as many years at peak as Bird, as many years in prime as Bird, what else is there? Accomplishments? Well, Lebron already has more MVPs than Larry, and now has gone to as many Finals as Bird did in his entire career I believe, and if he wins this year will have matched Bird in total trophies as well. This is already at worst a wash given the MVPs IMO, but with a title this year it's indisputable.

So, resume - Lebron or a tie; longevity - tied already, at best a 1 year advantage for Bird, and LBJ is only 29; peak - LBJ.

There's really no argument for Bird. If all else is equal, you go with the player who was simply better at basketball, and that's Lebron

Even everyone's favorite "he choked" argument doesn't fly here, as Bird had his share of playoff struggles as well.

Wonderllama · Post #4 » by **Wonderllama** » Sun Jun 1, 2014 6:59 pm

If Lebron wins four more games this month... YES.

Dupas · Post #5 » by **Dupas** » Sun Jun 1, 2014 7:08 pm

2º behind jordan

Heat_Fan_87 · Post #6 » by **Heat_Fan_87** » Sun Jun 1, 2014 7:17 pm

easily

narmerguy · Post #7 » by **narmerguy** » Sun Jun 1, 2014 7:59 pm

G-Menn wrote:Not yet.
IMO lebron is among top 10 all time.

My top 10 goes: Jordan, Kareem, magic, bird, wilt, duncan, shaq, Kobe, lebron, Hakeem.

If he wins a ring, he'll shoot above Kobe obviously, and maybe shaq. Depends ok his production these finals.

Lebron's already passed Kobe.

LoveMyHeat · Post #8 » by **LoveMyHeat** » Sun Jun 1, 2014 8:29 pm

Yes. Get mad, Boston fans.

dr3am · Post #9 » by **dr3am** » Sun Jun 1, 2014 8:32 pm

No question

Post #10 » by **PaulieWal** » Sun Jun 1, 2014 8:41 pm

G-Menn wrote:Not yet.
IMO lebron is among top 10 all time.

My top 10 goes: Jordan, Kareem, magic, bird, wilt, duncan, shaq, Kobe, lebron, Hakeem.

If he wins a ring, he'll shoot above Kobe obviously, and maybe shaq. Depends ok his production these finals.

I am not saying this because I am a Heat fan but there is no reasonable argument for Kobe above LeBron at this point. Kobe is an all-time great in his own right but he is closer to top 10, LeBron is already comfortably in the 6-8 range.

MiaFLSurf · Post #11 » by **MiaFLSurf** » Sun Jun 1, 2014 8:57 pm

Yes. I watched bird. Lebron is better.

People constantly talked about Lebron having trouble in the 80s.

I look at it the other way. Bird could not play now. Too fast. Too athletic. He'd just be another guy. It's true.

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RexBoyWonder · Post #12 » by **RexBoyWonder** » Sun Jun 1, 2014 9:32 pm

Mopper did a great job breaking it down.

Lebron is easily the best SF ever, and to me he's moved past Kobe, Hakeem and Magic.

Wilt and Russel are too old school, there's no comparison

So you're left with : Jordan, Kareem, Duncan, Shaq - those 4 are still ahead of him as of right now.

If Lebron stays healthy, I see him passing Shaq (shoet prime), Duncan (Lower peak), and Kareem (Style, X factor).

I don't see him passing Jordan, but Lebron has a real shot to get to #2 all time.

NBA82 · Post #13 » by **NBA82** » Sun Jun 1, 2014 10:25 pm

If we win this championship, I've got LeBron at #2 once you rightly move Russell and Chamberlain out of the conversation. Those two are from a different era.

And I don't think Jordan is out of reach at all.

Altered_Beast · Post #14 » by **Altered_Beast** » Sun Jun 1, 2014 10:32 pm

yes.

bird in the nba now is byron mullens

Hoops23 · Post #15 » by **Hoops23** » Mon Jun 2, 2014 2:12 am

with all the hype surrounding LBJ, a lot of fans would say "yes".

IMO, at present he's tied with Larry Legend. But I believe he will be soon the greatest SF to ever play the game.

In the future then, I believe Magic Johnson will say, "Larry, there will never ever be another Larry Bird, but Larry there is one better than you now, his name is Lebron James."

Run DLC · Post #16 » by **Run DLC** » Mon Jun 2, 2014 3:23 am

But he has to match Bird's 3 out of 5 finals record. A finals record of 2 out of 5(assuming he that loses this year) would be a bad look considering that Bird and Kobe have only lost twice in each of their respective finals appearances. Bird(3 out of 5), Kobe(5 out of 7). Some people would hold that against him even though i think he's better than those two guys and will rank higher than them on the ATG list.

LikeABosh · Post #17 » by **LikeABosh** » Mon Jun 2, 2014 3:47 am

Yes. What most fans seem to not know is that Larry Bird was a natural stretch 4, not a 3. But it just so happens when you have McHale and Parrish as teammates, it's necessary to be put out of position at times.

So, Lebron at the 3 and Bird at the 4 all time. Everybody wins

heatlespeatles · Post #18 » by **heatlespeatles** » Mon Jun 2, 2014 4:35 am

Run DLC wrote:But he has to match Bird's 3 out of 5 finals record. A finals record of 2 out of 5(assuming he that loses this year) would be a bad look considering that Bird and Kobe have only lost twice in each of their respective finals appearances. Bird(3 out of 5), Kobe(5 out of 7). Some people would hold that against him even though i think he's better than those two guys and will rank higher than them on the ATG list.

you don't have to match anybody's record, i don't know why people say this nonsense. Different eras :banghead:

Post #19 » by **IggieCC** » Mon Jun 2, 2014 4:36 am

Yes, and by a mile at the end of his career. Dude is still 29 years old

BIRDMAN BIRDMAN · Post #20 » by **BIRDMAN BIRDMAN** » Mon Jun 2, 2014 5:24 am

mopper (as usual) said it best

Initially, I had LeBron's ceiling to be finishing top 3 GOAT all-time, and somewhere around 5-8 as likely scenario. But I could now definitely see #2 as a possibility in the future. Don't think MJ gets dethroned from #1 as well but then again, you never know.....