The Right time to make a BIG Move

[ATLHawksfan21]

There's a difference between sucking at defense and giving no effort on the defense. Kyrie is soft and he gives no effort. He shies away from matching up with players that are tough to guard.

Kyrie's lack of effort is indeed worrisome. But that's an issue for the coaches to adjust.

It's worth noting, as bad as KI was defensively this year...he was still rated slightly better than our current PG, Jeffrey Teague.

I will take Teague over Kyrie any day when it comes to defense. Please give me a link to this rating. Ratings are overrated in my opinion. Especially if they have Kyrie doing well on defense as all you have to do is watch a game and know that it's complete b.s.

[Jamaaliver]

There's a difference between sucking at defense and giving no effort on the defense. Kyrie is soft and he gives no effort. He shies away from matching up with players that are tough to guard.

Kyrie's lack of effort is indeed worrisome. But that's an issue for the coaches to adjust.

It's worth noting, as bad as KI was defensively this year...he was still rated slightly better than our current PG, Jeffrey Teague.

I will take Teague over Kyrie any day when it comes to defense. Please give me a link to this rating. Ratings are overrated in my opinion. Especially if they have Kyrie doing well on defense as all you have to do is watch a game and know that it's complete b.s.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=teaguje01&y1=2014&p2=irvinky01&y2=2014

It's not that Irving has been a shut down defender, it's just that theyy are both bad. While Kyrie is A. improving and B. not as bad as Jeffrey.

NOTE: Jeff's def rating took a dip from the previous season under L Drew.

[ATLHawksfan21]

Kyrie's lack of effort is indeed worrisome. But that's an issue for the coaches to adjust.

It's worth noting, as bad as KI was defensively this year...he was still rated slightly better than our current PG, Jeffrey Teague.

I will take Teague over Kyrie any day when it comes to defense. Please give me a link to this rating. Ratings are overrated in my opinion. Especially if they have Kyrie doing well on defense as all you have to do is watch a game and know that it's complete b.s.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=teaguje01&y1=2014&p2=irvinky01&y2=2014

It's not that Irving has been a shut down defender, it's just that theyy are both bad. While Kyrie is A. improving and B. not as bad as Jeffrey.

NOTE: Jeff's def rating took a dip from the previous season under L Drew.

I would assume that is because Horford missed the year and we had that stretch of like 10 games where our starting bigs were Scott and Brand with Muscala backing them up.

I will never claim that Jeff is a great defender as I think he is average but at least he has the heart and will to defend. All I have seen from Kyrie on defense is him being soft and giving poor effort. I'm not sure what all goes in to the rankings but I will trust my eye test over them.

[Rip2137]

I don't care what any stat in the world says, I have watched both Kyrie and Teague play every single game they played this year and Teague is worlds better as a defender than Kyrie. That's not saying much, as Teague goes from middle of the road to good some nights, but Kyrie is a horrid defender.

[Jamaaliver]

The bidding has begun:

[tweet]https://twitter.com/SamAmicoFSO/status/472812763241537537[/tweet]

I start the bidding at: Teague and #15 for Kyrie and #33. Cleveland also gets the option to swap 1st rounders in 2016 draft.

[Yungsta404]

The bidding has begun:

[tweet]https://twitter.com/SamAmicoFSO/status/472812763241537537[/tweet]

I start the bidding at: Teague and #15 for Kyrie and #33. Cleveland also gets the option to swap 1st rounders in 2016 draft.

Im not sure what kind of package they are looking for but most likely they arent looking for anymore picks or young players (not talking about teague). They have one of the youngest rosters in the league with another 19 yr old on the way (embiid,parker,wiggins) and have had a toxic culture for the past couple of years.

My guess would be that they are looking for a vet who is an all star/borderline all star who immediately makes them better and can bring in some professionalism/leadership.

[theatlfan]

Im not sure what kind of package they are looking for but most likely they arent looking for anymore picks or young players (not talking about teague). They have one of the youngest rosters in the league with another 19 yr old on the way (embiid,parker,wiggins) and have had a toxic culture for the past couple of years.

My guess would be that they are looking for a vet who is an all star/borderline all star who immediately makes them better and can bring in some professionalism/leadership.

You talk to the CLE fans on the T&T board and they'll swear up and down that they want the exact opposite of what you're postulating here. Maybe they have some cognitive dissonance going on (which is very, very possible) but I could also see someone in their FO saying that they're going to build around the guy they are going to get at #1 and if that's Embiid, then why not tank for another year or 2 until he's ready to get him another talent or 2 to pair with?

I start the bidding at: Teague and #15 for Kyrie and #33. Cleveland also gets the option to swap 1st rounders in 2016 draft.

I do agree with Yungta in this respect though: we either have to give them youth and asset/s or vets - we can't try to be right down the middle. Assuming that Yungsta is correct, would we do Teague and Korver for Kyrie? Personally, I'd keep Horford off the table outside of landing the #1 pick, but literally any 2 of the rest of the guys on the roster, I'd consider in a deal for Kyire with Teague + Millsap being the only deal that I'd ask for more coming back (which isn't likely - why would they want Millsap with 2 recent top 5 picks at PF?).

[hawkschop1]

I think the hawks should go hard after greivis vasquez this summer! I see him as our manu and believe their games are similar. I really like this idea guys. Big time clutch player. Obviously we hope gordon hayward is available...but I think vasquez is a killer idea (not to toot my own horn). Hope yall agree!

6'6 point guard who can absolutely play off the ball and maybe even play SF in a pinch. Hopefully the raptors overpay kyle lowry and don't have the cap space for vasquez because we do

anyone miss the thrashers? what an end to the kings/blackhawks series!

Goodnight!

[theatlfan]

I think the hawks should go hard after greivis vasquez this summer! I see him as our manu and believe their games are similar. I really like this idea guys. Big time clutch player. Obviously we hope gordon hayward is available...but I think vasquez is a killer idea (not to toot my own horn). Hope yall agree!

6'6 point guard who can absolutely play off the ball and maybe even play SF in a pinch. Hopefully the raptors overpay kyle lowry and don't have the cap space for vasquez because we do

anyone miss the thrashers? what an end to the kings/blackhawks series!

Goodnight!

Not saying I wouldn't be behind the move, but I wonder if Vasquez would be a guy that Ferry would target. With 1 obvious exception, I think that every premium player that Ferry has targeted has been someone with the vaunted +5 wingspan over height (w/o shoes). Sure, there's been some 2nd rounders (Scott, Muscala) and some bargain bin vets (Carroll; I'd assume Antic and Ayon although I don't have any definitive measurements on those two) that don't fit that mold, but even then those guys' wingspan to height is still in the +3 to +5 range - as is the obvious exception (Korver). For comparison, the measurement that I see on Vasquez is 6'5" height vs a 6'7" wingspan. I don't know if this is a hard and fast rule Ferry uses or just a coincidence that any NBA FO could fall into when attempting to mine talent at the places that we are, but it's worth noting.

[Yungsta404]

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/23 ... ge-Horford

The Cleveland Cavaliers are interested in acquiring an established All-Star big via trade.

Kevin Love is of interest to the Cavaliers and is the closest player in a group that could be available that includes Joakim Noah, LaMarcus Aldridge and Al Horford.

Aldridge was mentioned in trade rumors a year ago, but the Blazers are now trending upwards after advancing into the second round.

Just as I have suspected, they want an established all star type player. They have too much youth on that team with no real guidance. The cavs have shown to be horrible at developing players and its extremely difficult to focus on developing 3 or 4 20 yr olds at a time. The cavs are basically like the Sacramento kings of the east. They want someone to come in and give them all star production immediately.

I bet Dan Gilbert is tired of waiting for young players to develop and have seen a team like the wizards surround their young players with Vets and were able to make that big leap. Im sure he wants similar results

[atlantabbq99]

#15 and any 3 players for #1.

Ferry can still do a Dennis or Teague trade with the Kings.

[ATLHawksfan21]

#15 and any 3 players for #1.

Ferry can still do a Dennis or Teague trade with the Kings.

You are out of your mind if you would give our first + teague horford milsap. Or korver horford milsap.

Thank god we have ferry

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[Jamaaliver]

Just reading the tea leaves, but it looks like Ferry has options and is finally prepared to make an aggressive move:

The idea of a lottery pick in this year's draft being available in trade talks is a surprising development, but several teams appear amenable to a deal.

...The Boston Celtics, Los Angeles Lakers, Sacramento Kings, Charlotte Hornets, Minnesota Timberwolves and Phoenix Suns are all open to offers for their lottery picks, according to sources.

The ...Atlanta Hawks...are expected to be especially busy looking to move up or to acquire a second pick.Via Chad Ford/ESPN

HERE!

So many opportunities. Sadly, for us to take advantage of any of them it means Horford and/or Millsap will have to go.

I wouldn't mind seeing us trade Teague, Millsap, Bebe for Pau Gasol (sign and trade) and the #7 draft pick.
They get two vets to help Kobe get back to the playoffs and we get a 7 Foot beast in the post plus a shot at Smart, Vonleh or Saric.

[atlantabbq99]

Hawks can trade any 2 or 3 guys on the team, get a lottery pick, and then Budz can go free agent shopping......

Carmelo, Bosh, Bledsoe, Monroe, Randolph, Rudy Gay, Gordon Hayward, Gortat, Evan Turner, Hawes, Blatche, Granger, Vasquez, etc

[jagstang76]

First thing that comes to mind is this past NFL draft. It was similarly stacked with talent and rumors were flying about possible moves. But the actual draft had only one big move into the top 5. I think teams realize the strength of their position in the draft and try to parley it into a big deal. The problem is their asking price for such a move is abnormally high for prospective GMs to feel good about, so in the end nothing happens. Teams would rather stay put and take a solid prospect than comprise on what value they see in their pick.

Considering we had a decent performance throughout the season and in the 1st rd of the playoffs without Horford, I would think we would rather just upgrade on what we have than make a big deal. I see Ferry performing his due diligence to fish for a good deal that we can stomach, but I don't see him just lightly giving away assets. He basically created a new squad just this past offseason and has said several times that he likes the makeup of this team. I could see him trying to find a way to trade up to nab a player he feels strongly about, but I don't think he'll do anything really drastic.

[ATLHawksfan21]

I cant believe that people still actually believe supposed reports about the hawks are going to do this or that. If there's one thing we know about ferry, its that he doesn't show his hand until the deed is done. I would take any rumors about the hawks doing this or that with a grain of salt until I hear it directly from ferry

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[PandaKidd]

I just have a sneaky feeling AH or Millsap are gone before tip off next year

[azuresou1]

Just reading the tea leaves, but it looks like Ferry has options and is finally prepared to make an aggressive move:

The idea of a lottery pick in this year's draft being available in trade talks is a surprising development, but several teams appear amenable to a deal.

...The Boston Celtics, Los Angeles Lakers, Sacramento Kings, Charlotte Hornets, Minnesota Timberwolves and Phoenix Suns are all open to offers for their lottery picks, according to sources.

The ...Atlanta Hawks...are expected to be especially busy looking to move up or to acquire a second pick.Via Chad Ford/ESPN

HERE!

So many opportunities. Sadly, for us to take advantage of any of them it means Horford and/or Millsap will have to go.

I wouldn't mind seeing us trade Teague, Millsap, Bebe for Pau Gasol (sign and trade) and the #7 draft pick.
They get two vets to help Kobe get back to the playoffs and we get a 7 Foot beast in the post plus a shot at Smart, Vonleh or Saric.

2014 called to let you know that Pau Gasol is done.

Millsap for 7? Sure. Millsap, Teague, AND Bebe for Pau and #7? Yuck

[Jamaaliver]

2014 called to let you know that Pau Gasol is done.

Millsap for 7? Sure. Millsap, Teague, AND Bebe for Pau and #7? Yuck

I would respectfully disagree. Gasol avg more Rebounds/Assists/Blocks than Millsap last season. They both avg a shade over 17 ppg with Gasol shooting a higher FG%. At 7-feet and 250 pounds, Gasol is actually big/strong enough to share Center duties with Horford.

Furthermore, we are very clearly mimicking the San Antonio Spurs style of basketball. I submit that from a skill perspective, Gasol can do everything at age 33 that Tim Duncan does for that Spurs team.

There are indeed some injury concerns regarding Gasol at this point. and he'd have to take a pay cut.

But Gasol fits in our system incredibly well, fixes our interior defense and rebounding. Is a consistent shot blocker. And is playoff tested playing in three straight NBA Finals and winning two straight championships.

Gasol at his worst is still a 17 ppg 8 rpg big man capable of abusing smaller players in the post.

And as I have said many times over the years, I believe Horford/Gasol gives us the best front court in the Eastern Conference.

[PandaKidd]

I would welcome Gasol, hes still got something left in the tank. His skillset translates WELL with age.