The Kevin Love Thread: Update PG. 67, 78

[Chitownbulls]

Reportedly, the Bulls offered Mirotic, Gibson, Butler and picks for Love ... and the TWolves haven't accepted that. Doesn't make much sense for people to suggesting lesser offers under those circumstances.

Does that trade even work money wise? And if it does, I think the Bulls will be going after Melo with a amnesty of Boozer or a possible sign and trade.

Booz, MDJ, kings pick, snell, future pick for Melo

[bullslas]

the spurs don't have the best top end quality. they are favorites over the team with THE best top-end quality

A team like the Spurs can't be built by design, and aren't really an option to pick as a model.

true to a degree. but my point stands. they've done it with a system, not stars. tim duncan doesn't play like a star anymore. manu is an old super-sub. and parker is overrated due to the media's need to elevate someone to star status to justify the spurs' success

overpaying star free agents is not a successful model, by the way. you simply need value contracts in whatever form that takes or you will not win titles. unless you're willing to pay massive luxury tax

Parker is actually underated. If he played for the Lakers or the Knicks he would get more respect. The Spurs have Duncan, Parker, Manu and Leonard. Can Taj be Duncan? Can Butler be Manu or Leonard? Duncan is still good and still causes a challenge for Bosh. The Bulls don't have the foundation of Manu, Parker, Duncan and Leonard on cheap contracts.. We have Rose making a ton of money. The only way the Bulls follow the Spurs is if Mirotic comes over and is comparable to the benefit that Manu brought to the Spurs. Spurs did some good drafting with Parker, Manu and Leonard..

[dice]

If my memory is right they lost 4-1, that's smoked I think

not in this case. heat players would tell you they didn't smoke the bulls that year

Again, Lebron and Wade are all stars on good contracts so is Durant

yes. good contracts win championships

If we get Love, we have 3 All Stars

only relevant if you're not overpaying them and you have value contracts to complement them. if you're giving up all your value contracts to get love it doesn't work. noah is certainly worth what he's paid, and probably more if healthy. same with love. potentially the same with derrick *fingers crossed*. still need a couple of quality players on cheap deals to be a legit championship team, though. jimmy, potentially mirotic, draft picks, a ring chaser coming in at a discount if we're lucky. can't give all of that up to get kevin love or we're just spinning our wheels

[TheStig]

Kevin Martin would have been great 3 years ago (like for Asik) but I think people are too high on him now.

He's going to be 31, was a terrible defender even in his youth, and if you pair him with Love in the starting lineup, your pushing it on defense already. Especially if Butler and/or Taj are gone to get Love.

He had one of his poorer efficiency years last season and that's his calling card, if that continues to slip with age, he could easily become a negative starter tbh.

The change in the rip-though call, one of his pet favorites, seems to have hurt his FTA along with aging, which used to bolster his efficiency.

Still a knockdown shooter deep, but you could get Anthony Morrow for a 1/4 of the price to do that.

If the choice is Corey Brewer or Kevin Martin. I would take Martin. We will be looking for a third scorer after this deal and I think Martin can still do that and be a shooter. Thibs would love to run him off screens. Defense is a concern but I would fill out the bench and sf with defensive guys and shooters. Thibs will be able to put together a system to hide some of Love and Martin's flaws.

I think you take Brewer only if you think you have a good shot at Melo. Throwing together Nazr on the Bogans deal, MDJ, ungaurnteeds, Mirotic, sac pick and a future pick.

[Rerisen]

overpaying star free agents is not a successful model, by the way. you simply need value contracts in whatever form that takes or you will not win titles. unless you're willing to pay massive luxury tax

How do you acquire value contracts though. Not Free Agency, and you won't get good Draft Picks, the only sure source of them, unless you suck or tank. It's not realistic to hunt a whole team of them, sure at bottom barrel guys like Marco and Nate you can get value, but a whole team of that isn't competing for anything, its just like giving up each year because you don't have that super duper star.

I don't think an organization, esp big market like the Bulls, can have a strategy of sitting on their hands and 'not committing' which is kind of a bogus argument anyway, till a top 5 players falls into their lap.

It's been 16 years since the dynasty and we haven't landed one yet. You can argue Wallace was dumb, Boozer was dumb, etc, but it would have been better to not have tried to even win and just been missing the playoffs every year instead? Because that's where you are if you never spend above MLE outside a super duper star.

I don't see that Love or Melo at max or near max is so much worse value than Deng at 11m or Hayward or Stephenson at 10m. The majority of the league probably above MLE is overpaid relative to a position that only LeBron or KD are 'worth their money'.

[BullsFTW]

-Trade Taj + Mirotic + MDJ + 16th Pick + SAC Pick for Love
-Trade Boozer + Non-Guarantees + 19th Pick to Philly for $21M TPE
-Acquire Melo in a S&T using the TPE and sending Snell & 2016 Pick to NY

F Melo
F Love
C Noah
G Snell
G Rose

Bench: Hinrich, MLE, BAE

Lmao. Come on man.

Butler & 2016 Pick for Melo

[JohnnyKILLroy]

Dont want love, getting him would demolish our squad, id much rather have melo

Our squad? Aren't you a Raptor fan?

[Future Coach]

If we get Love, which I am fully in favor of, I could very well see us making a play for Paul Pierce.

It would suck to see Taj go, as he is a perennial 6th man of the year candidate if you can keep him coming off the bench and dominating the 2nd unit front-courts of other teams, but if adding Love you could manage losing Taj by adding someone like Maxiell.

And Jimmy Butler should likely be moved. I don't see the Bulls matching what he is offered as a RFA.

If we can get Corey Brewer + someone like Paul Pierce to play with Rose, Love and Noah, you are looking at an instant contender. Especially if you have Dunleavy, Smith, someone like Maxiell, and maybe Kirk or DJ off the bench. That is looking pretty nice. Pretty nice indeed.

[bullslas]

History tells us we need future hall of famers to win any kind of title, not role players. Another pattern that has led to a lot of titles is having a great big and a great guard or wing. I like Love a lot, but I'm concern with what kind of player he will be once he's 32-33 yrs old. Is he still going to be as effective? He already can't jump, now he will just get slower. And is he to perimeter oriented? Will his game translate well in the playoffs when people really lock down? I just see Love as a #2 guy.

Aldridge is my guy. Can score in the post any time down the floor. Closer you are to the basket, the easier it is.

I liked LMA last year, but he's getting old now. Love is 25, him and Rose can grow together and build a solid foundation for years to come. Love, loves to shoot but he also is a great rebounder and can score down low. Love doesn't get enough credit for scoring down low, because ESPN loves showing those long game winning 3's. Love is not a number 1 but he's good enough to be a number 2, which is what we need him to be. Rose has to come back to the All Star and number 1 that he was. The only way the Love move works, is if Rose is who he was. LMA is also a #2 but he's getting up there in age and I'm afraid he will be another Boozer in 2 years. If you have Love, and Noah, hopefully continues to grow as a player, with some solid shooters around them, that will be a deadly team, especially in the East. Love is a clutch player who is stuck in Minnesota... He really needs to be vocal and let everyone know he will only resign in Chicago.. And the Bulls of course can't do this trade unless he agrees to an extension! We really need Rose to go out and recruit his buddy these next 2 weeks...

[ryannik09]

Reportedly, the Bulls offered Mirotic, Gibson, Butler and picks for Love ... and the TWolves haven't accepted that. Doesn't make much sense for people to suggesting lesser offers under those circumstances.

Link/Source??? The Jackie Macmullin article doesn't state what the Bulls offered, she only lists the Bulls assets that could be offered.

[IcemanGervin]

Reportedly, the Bulls offered Mirotic, Gibson, Butler and picks for Love ... and the TWolves haven't accepted that. Doesn't make much sense for people to suggesting lesser offers under those circumstances.

Does that trade even work money wise? And if it does, I think the Bulls will be going after Melo with a amnesty of Boozer or a possible sign and trade.

Booz, MDJ, kings pick, snell, future pick for Melo

If that is a real offer(which i highly doubt) and the Twolve's turn it down, then good luck to any team trying to trade for him.

[Chitownbulls]

History tells us we need future hall of famers to win any kind of title, not role players. Another pattern that has led to a lot of titles is having a great big and a great guard or wing. I like Love a lot, but I'm concern with what kind of player he will be once he's 32-33 yrs old. Is he still going to be as effective? He already can't jump, now he will just get slower. And is he to perimeter oriented? Will his game translate well in the playoffs when people really lock down? I just see Love as a #2 guy.

Aldridge is my guy. Can score in the post any time down the floor. Closer you are to the basket, the easier it is.

I liked LMA last year, but he's getting old now. Love is 25, him and Rose can grow together and build a solid foundation for years to come. Love, loves to shoot but he also is a great rebounder and can score down low. Love doesn't get enough credit for scoring down low, because ESPN loves showing those long game winning 3's. Love is not a number 1 but he's good enough to be a number 2, which is what we need him to be. Rose has to come back to the All Star and number 1 that he was. The only way the Love move works, is if Rose is who he was. LMA is also a #2 but he's getting up there in age and I'm afraid he will be another Boozer in 2 years. If you have Love, and Noah, hopefully continues to grow as a player, with some solid shooters around them, that will be a deadly team, especially in the East. Love is a clutch player who is stuck in Minnesota... He really needs to be vocal and let everyone know he will only resign in Chicago.. And the Bulls of course can't do this trade unless he agrees to an extension! We really need Rose to go out and recruit his buddy these next 2 weeks...

I agree. And if we get Love....you have Rose Love for the next 10yrs hopefully. Players would love to play with those guys. Thibs is still your coach, and you can just add pieces as the years go on. I also like the idea one poster had about chasing Paul Pierce.

Rose
Brewer
Pierce
Love
Noah

[dice]

A team like the Spurs can't be built by design, and aren't really an option to pick as a model.

true to a degree. but my point stands. they've done it with a system, not stars. tim duncan doesn't play like a star anymore. manu is an old super-sub. and parker is overrated due to the media's need to elevate someone to star status to justify the spurs' success

overpaying star free agents is not a successful model, by the way. you simply need value contracts in whatever form that takes or you will not win titles. unless you're willing to pay massive luxury tax

Parker is actually underated.

c'mon. if he wasn't in such a good situation there' no chance he would've been getting the kind of MVP chatter he got last year when nobody could wrap their heads around why the spurs were so good. if he was in portland he'd get the attention lillard has as a 2nd year player

The Bulls don't have the foundation of Manu, Parker, Duncan and Leonard on cheap contracts.. We have Rose making a ton of money. The only way the Bulls follow the Spurs is if Mirotic comes over and is comparable to the benefit that Manu brought to the Spurs. Spurs did some good drafting with Parker, Manu and Leonard..

what can i say, you're right. we have noah on a good contract (even better than duncan's). jimmy's not quite as good a contract as leonard. so on balance jimmy/jo cancels out the value of duncan/leonard. derrick COULD cancel out parker if he returns to form. then you've gotta hope that mirotic, taj and draft picks give you the kind of value that guys like manu, green, diaw and mills have brought to the spurs. tall order, but realistic. more realistic in my mind than having to rely on a trio of 2nd tier stars and little else

[MGB8]

The trade that would work would be Boozer (15.3), Taj (7.5), Dunleavy (3.2), and picks for Love (14.7), Martin (6.5) and Budinger (5). If you are lucky, you could get them to swap out Mbah a Moute (4.6) for Budinger.

I don't think you would have to include Butler, especially given that the Wolves already have Corey Brewer and Shabbaz Muhhamed. You might have to give Mirotic. You might also have to wrap up all those non-guaranteeds and take back a guy like Alexi Shved, who is pretty much useless but costs 3 million for one more season. Let's assume that you have to give up Mirotic, Admunson and Mike James and take back Shved, but do get them to swap out Mbah a Moute. The teams would look like:

MIN:
pg: Rubio, Barea
sg: C. Brewer, Budinger
sf: Dunleavy, Muhammed
pf: Boozer/Gibson
cc: Pekovic, Dieng, Turiaf

pick 13, 16, 19, rights to Mirotic, maybe re-sign Dante Cunnigham

CHI
pg: Rose, Shved (bleh)
sg: K.Martin, Snell
sf: J.Butler, R. Brewer
pf: Love, Mbah a Moute
cc: Noah, G.Smith

no picks, maybe re-sign DJ Augustine or another backup PG type (big need).

[bullslas]

The trade that would work would be Boozer (15.3), Taj (7.5), Dunleavy (3.2), and picks for Love (14.7), Martin (6.5) and Budinger (5). If you are lucky, you could get them to swap out Mbah a Moute (4.6) for Budinger.

I don't think you would have to include Butler, especially given that the Wolves already have Corey Brewer and Shabbaz Muhhamed. You might have to give Mirotic. You might also have to wrap up all those non-guaranteeds and take back a guy like Alexi Shved, who is pretty much useless but costs 3 million for one more season. Let's assume that you have to give up Mirotic, Admunson and Mike James and take back Shved, but do get them to swap out Mbah a Moute. The teams would look like:

MIN:
pg: Rubio, Barea
sg: C. Brewer, Budinger
sf: Dunleavy, Muhammed
pf: Boozer/Gibson
cc: Pekovic, Dieng, Turiaf

pick 13, 16, 19, rights to Mirotic, maybe re-sign Dante Cunnigham

CHI
pg: Rose, Shved (bleh)
sg: K.Martin, Snell
sf: J.Butler, R. Brewer
pf: Love, Mbah a Moute
cc: Noah, G.Smith

no picks, maybe re-sign DJ Augustine or another backup PG type (big need).

Thats a championship, but does Minny do this? I can live with Jimmy on that team, as we have some offense... No love for Shved?? I thought everyone loved him around here.... I'm just soo scared to trade Mirotic...

[DASMACKDOWN]

Surprised to hear that we've offered them something, which happens to be better than Boston's.

Interesting...

Im thinking it could be the Boozer angle. If we are making a deal for players and or picks plus the cap relief of Boozer, that would be extremely interesting for a team like the Twolves.

[BullsFTW]

I'd be happy to have either Love or Melo, but I'd like us to find out our chances on landing Melo before pulling a Love deal. We can find out through backchannels about Melo's intention on signing with the Bulls. If we can keep Taj, bring Mirotic over, and sign Melo, you go that route with no doubt.

I'm sure right before the draft, we'll get a clue on Melo's situation. This is also a reason I don't want Love to get traded by the draft. He should be Plan 1b, and Melo is Plan 1a.

[Jimako10]

I do hope the bulls are going all out for Love, because while we might not contend in year 1, years 2-6 and possibly beyond (depending on how Rose's game ages) will likely be contending teams. That's when we will be able to get those value contracts in the form of veteran ring chasers and solid role players which GarPax seem capable of finding year in and year out.

[Magilla_Gorilla]

Surprised to hear that we've offered them something, which happens to be better than Boston's.

Interesting...

Im thinking it could be the Boozer angle. If we are making a deal for players and or picks plus the cap relief of Boozer, that would be extremely interesting for a team like the Twolves.

Agreed. By offering an expiring Boozer (16.8 million) and taking back longer contracts like Budinger & Brewer (20 million owed) we'd be saving Minny 3.2 million plus we'd clear 10 million off their 2015 cap to be used in FA.

[Chitownbulls]

I'd be happy to have either Love or Melo, but I'd like us to find out our chances on landing Melo before pulling a Love deal. We can find out through backchannels about Melo's intention on signing with the Bulls. If we can keep Taj, bring Mirotic over, and sign Melo, you go that route with no doubt.

I'm sure right before the draft, we'll get a clue on Melo's situation. This is also a reason I don't want Love to get traded by the draft. He should be Plan 1b, and Melo is Plan 1a.

That's where I'm at