Hornets Sign Lance Stephenson 3y/27.5 mil (p67)

[dmutombo321]

Those who just glance at stephenson's 35% 3 point shooting % and then glance at Henderson's at 34% and assume that they are similar outside shooters need to look a little deeper before jumping to conclusions.

Stephenson's 35%, a respectable 3 point shooting % by any measure, is achieved while shooting over twice as many shots from downtown per game than henderson did, and many of them contested with defenders in his face.

When a players 3pt shooting attempts go up, their percentages invariably go down as gordon hayward can attest (barely mustered 30% this year on 3.5 attempts per game)

When hendo upped his three point shot attempts from 1.5 to even 2.3 per game during the playoffs, he hit for a whopping 0%.

Imagine how pedestrian his % would be over the course of a full season if he was attempting the 3.1 per game clip lance does.

Stephenson is certainly not an elite level shooter from downtown but he is very good and leaps and bounds better from the 3ball than any of our lineup manning the PG/SG/SF right now.

[mrknowitall215]

Stephenson is certainly not an elite level shooter from downtown but he is very good and leaps and bounds better from the 3ball than any of our lineup manning the PG/SG/SF right now.

I would argue that Kemba & CDR are better 3-point shooters, but that's neither here nor there. Stephenson would be a solid acquisition, but some might want to temper their expectations if they think he's going to be anymore of a scorer than Henderson, which means within the 13-17 points per game range

[dmutombo321]

Walker certainly isnt as good an outside shooter as stephenson and his numbers are reflective of such.

Agree about cdr though. He's really improved his range since entering the league. Hope they bring him back. I actually prefer him on the floor to hendo in most cases.

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[mrknowitall215]

Walker certainly isnt as good an outside shooter as stephenson and his numbers are reflective of such.

Agree about cdr though. He's really improved his range since entering the league. Hope they bring him back. I actually prefer him on the floor to hendo in most cases.

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To use your same argument of attempts & makes versus percentages that you used for Henderson against Stephenson I will use for Kemba against Stephenson. Kemba make about a half a 3-pointer more per game than Stephenson and they share the same career 3-point percentage at 32%. Kemba attempt almost 100 more 3 pointers per season than Stephenson, but their percentages are in the same vicinity

[LofJ]

Stephenson is a better shooter, defender, rebounder, and passer than Henderson. It's crazy to suggest that they're on a comparable level. If we could just move Henderson we should feel comfortable offering Lance $10 million a year, he's worth that.

[ball teacher]

I like Stehenson, but he's not a very good scorer. Remember how the Pacers would go through stretches where the struggle to get points. Lance is a good overall player, but hes not the scorer we need. His role on the Pacers fits him perfectly, they need his toughness, and aggression/play making abilities cause nobody else on the team can make plays for others like him. George Hill is a mediocre play making PG, Watson is even worse than him, so Stephenson is on a team where he fits, which is why their isnt a big market for Lance. He's got the perfect role in Indiana. We need somebody who can get buckets, Lance is not that guy who we need.

[mrknowitall215]

Stephenson is a better shooter, defender, rebounder, and passer than Henderson. It's crazy to suggest that they're on a comparable level. If we could just move Henderson we should feel comfortable offering Lance $10 million a year, he's worth that.

They aren't comparable overall, no, not at all. You might have taken what I stated out of context. I said that some may want to temper their expectations if they expect Stephenson to 'score' at a higher level than Henderson. Indeed, Stephenson would likely make Charlotte's offense better than Henderson since he's capable of more things than Henderson outside of a baseline dash to attempt a fading jump shot over multiple defenders

However, Stephenson wasn't much of a scorer, only 13.8 points per game, on a Indiana offense that was worst than Charlotte's before Al Jefferson & Steve Clifford when Mike Dunlap was the head coach. In fact, Henderson averaged more points than Stephenson this season, just slightly with 14.0 compared to 13.8

[LofJ]

I agree with you, Stephenson isn't a scorer. He was the third option on the Pacers, much like Henderson was for us. He's a heck of a lot better at it, but you're 100 percent right that he hasn't shown the ability to light the scoreboard up. That's why I'm not crazy about signing him unless we can move Henderson.

[mrknowitall215]

I agree with you, Stephenson isn't a scorer. He was the third option on the Pacers, much like Henderson was for us. He's a heck of a lot better at it, but you're 100 percent right that he hasn't shown the ability to light the scoreboard up. That's why I'm not crazy about signing him unless we can move Henderson.

On the same token, I don't want to be misconstrued as if I'm limiting Stephenson's ability because I believe he could be a legit 2nd option in the ball park of 18-20 points per game if he put it all together. I'm just stating that Charlotte should be wary of the limitations as a scorer that Stephenson has shown when and if they take it to the negotiating table. That's why I pencil him in at $6-8 million annual worth, whereas he's probably really worth $6 million if you just went off production/middling efficiency and then factored in his character issues, but I'd be willing to go up to $8 million for his upside at only 23 years old (24 years old in September) and the demand he may garner on the open market

[LofJ]

I don't think 8 million would be enough, it would have to at least be in the ballpark of 9 million a year. I'm pretty sure the Pacers would be willing to pay him close to 8 million, and all things being equal I'm sure he'd rather stay in Indiana if the pay is close.

[mrknowitall215]

I don't think 8 million would be enough, it would have to at least be in the ballpark of 9 million a year. I'm pretty sure the Pacers would be willing to pay him pretty close to 8 million, and all things being equal I'm sure he'd rather stay in Indiana if the pay is close.

I wouldn't offer him over $8 million. If that's the case, the risk outweigh the possible gain, and I would move on to the next free agent. As far as the Pacers & Stephenson go, I doubt that his agent would want for him to return to that fickle environment where he'll always be considered a locker room disturbance among mentally fragile players like Paul George & Roy Hibbert, who happen to be higher on Indiana's pecking order than Stephenson as long as they are on the roster and under contract

[LofJ]

That's a good point about it possibly being better for Stephenson's future to move on from the Pacers. I hadn't considered that.

[MasterIchiro]

All his agent has to do is point to recent precedent and cite Tyreke Evans' 4 year 44 million dollar deal. It's a bad deal but it's a market deal based on recent precedent. How would ownership argue that? You give him it or walk away. He's one of the biggest names out there in a weak class, just like Al Jefferson - more precedent.

I don't think he's a lights out scorer either which is why you draft a guy who can be a legit 6th man on day 1, Stauskas and you pick up Afflalo if you can for a package centered on pick 24.

[mrknowitall215]

All his agent has to do is point to recent precedent and cite Tyreke Evans' 4 year 44 million dollar deal. It's a bad deal but it's a market deal based on recent precedent. How would ownership argue that? You give him it or walk away. He's one of the biggest names out there in a weak class, just like Al Jefferson - more precedent.

I don't think he's a lights out scorer either which is why you draft a guy who can be a legit 6th man on day 1, Stauskas and you pick up Afflalo if you can for a package centered on pick 24.

You just answered Charlotte's response if he's expecting $11 million. Just because it's market value on what's widely considered a bad contract that doesn't mean that the Hornets or any other team should give it to him. Tyreke Evans has had a far more productive and efficient start to his career amid losing than Stephenson has, and even his contract is a bad one. Not to mention, Stephenson isn't considered a possible locker room cancer neither. There's a lot to take into account

BTW, Tyreke Evans >>> Lance Stephenson

[MasterIchiro]

All his agent has to do is point to recent precedent and cite Tyreke Evans' 4 year 44 million dollar deal. It's a bad deal but it's a market deal based on recent precedent. How would ownership argue that? You give him it or walk away. He's one of the biggest names out there in a weak class, just like Al Jefferson - more precedent.

I don't think he's a lights out scorer either which is why you draft a guy who can be a legit 6th man on day 1, Stauskas and you pick up Afflalo if you can for a package centered on pick 24.

You just answered Charlotte's response if he's expecting $11 million. Just because it's market value on what's widely considered a bad contract that doesn't mean that the Hornets or any other team should give it to him. Tyreke Evans has had a far more productive and efficient start to his career amid losing than Stephenson has, and even his contract is a bad one

BTW, Tyreke Evans >>> Lance Stephenson

By how much? They're comparable. If I'm his agent that's the contract I point to. If Charlotte doesn't want to pay him 10-11 million per and at least 4 years, then my client is not interested. This situation can be avoided if Charltotte drafts Stauskas and acquires Afflalo in advance of free agency. Then you can maybe get Lance at your price and if you don't get him at all you're still ok.

[mrknowitall215]

All his agent has to do is point to recent precedent and cite Tyreke Evans' 4 year 44 million dollar deal. It's a bad deal but it's a market deal based on recent precedent. How would ownership argue that? You give him it or walk away. He's one of the biggest names out there in a weak class, just like Al Jefferson - more precedent.

I don't think he's a lights out scorer either which is why you draft a guy who can be a legit 6th man on day 1, Stauskas and you pick up Afflalo if you can for a package centered on pick 24.

You just answered Charlotte's response if he's expecting $11 million. Just because it's market value on what's widely considered a bad contract that doesn't mean that the Hornets or any other team should give it to him. Tyreke Evans has had a far more productive and efficient start to his career amid losing than Stephenson has, and even his contract is a bad one

BTW, Tyreke Evans >>> Lance Stephenson

By how much? They're comparable. If I'm his agent that's the contract I point to. If Charlotte doesn't want to pay him 10-11 million per and at least 4 years, then my client is not interested. This situation can be avoided if Charltotte drafts Stauskas and acquires Afflalo in advance of free agency. Then you can maybe get Lance at your price and if you don't get him at all you're still ok.

They're comparable in a vacuum as all-around, versatile, talented wing players that can play PG, SG, and SF, but if you compared Tyreke's production to Stephenson's it's clear to see who's the better player when they are about the same age. Let's put it like this, even though this metric has it's flaws, a player with a PER of 15 is considered a average starter in the NBA. Tyreke has a career PER of 17.1 and he had a season PER of 18.4 this past season while Stephenson has a career PER of 12.7 and this past season he had a PER of 14.7 which happens to be the highest of his career thus far. I would take Tyreke over Stephenson if they made the same amount of money on most normal cases without hesitation because he's a better player, but the way Cho has this roster set up, Stephenson is a better fit because he's more of a floor spacer

I would've never even payed Tyreke over $10 million following his exile from Sacramento, so I definitely wouldn't consider it with Stephenson. Stephenson is worth $8 million max annually

[Liver_Pooty]

All his agent has to do is point to recent precedent and cite Tyreke Evans' 4 year 44 million dollar deal. It's a bad deal but it's a market deal based on recent precedent. How would ownership argue that? You give him it or walk away. He's one of the biggest names out there in a weak class, just like Al Jefferson - more precedent.

I don't think he's a lights out scorer either which is why you draft a guy who can be a legit 6th man on day 1, Stauskas and you pick up Afflalo if you can for a package centered on pick 24.

You just answered Charlotte's response if he's expecting $11 million. Just because it's market value on what's widely considered a bad contract that doesn't mean that the Hornets or any other team should give it to him. Tyreke Evans has had a far more productive and efficient start to his career amid losing than Stephenson has, and even his contract is a bad one. Not to mention, Stephenson isn't considered a possible locker room cancer neither. There's a lot to take into account

BTW, Tyreke Evans >>> Lance Stephenson

Definitely not. Evans had a great rookie year and has deteriorated slowly simce. Id take Stephenson over him easily.

Edit: I go by watching them both, alot. Not PERs, and whatever else. No way we'd offer Lance 11 per anyway

[mrknowitall215]

All his agent has to do is point to recent precedent and cite Tyreke Evans' 4 year 44 million dollar deal. It's a bad deal but it's a market deal based on recent precedent. How would ownership argue that? You give him it or walk away. He's one of the biggest names out there in a weak class, just like Al Jefferson - more precedent.

I don't think he's a lights out scorer either which is why you draft a guy who can be a legit 6th man on day 1, Stauskas and you pick up Afflalo if you can for a package centered on pick 24.

You just answered Charlotte's response if he's expecting $11 million. Just because it's market value on what's widely considered a bad contract that doesn't mean that the Hornets or any other team should give it to him. Tyreke Evans has had a far more productive and efficient start to his career amid losing than Stephenson has, and even his contract is a bad one. Not to mention, Stephenson isn't considered a possible locker room cancer neither. There's a lot to take into account

BTW, Tyreke Evans >>> Lance Stephenson

Definitely not. Evans had a great rookie year and has deteriorated slowly simce. Id take Stephenson over him easily.

Edit: I go by watching them both, alot. Not PERs, and whatever else. No way we'd offer Lance 11 per anyway

Put Tyreke Evans on the Pacers in a swap for Lance Stephenson and they are a better team without a doubt in my mind. All in all, Evans never averaged less points than Stephenson's career high despite his 'deterioration', and Evans' career assist average (4.9) is higher than Stephenson's career high (4.7)

[MasterIchiro]

Of course Charlotte won't offer that (11) but his agent will demand it and Charlotte overpaid for Al Jefferson when Jefferson was the best of a weak class (aside from Howard).

Lance is looking at 4 years 40 million minimum.

I'll bet anyone.

[Liver_Pooty]

You just answered Charlotte's response if he's expecting $11 million. Just because it's market value on what's widely considered a bad contract that doesn't mean that the Hornets or any other team should give it to him. Tyreke Evans has had a far more productive and efficient start to his career amid losing than Stephenson has, and even his contract is a bad one. Not to mention, Stephenson isn't considered a possible locker room cancer neither. There's a lot to take into account

BTW, Tyreke Evans >>> Lance Stephenson

Definitely not. Evans had a great rookie year and has deteriorated slowly simce. Id take Stephenson over him easily.

Edit: I go by watching them both, alot. Not PERs, and whatever else. No way we'd offer Lance 11 per anyway

Put Tyreke Evans on the Pacers in a swap for Lance Stephenson and they are a better team without a doubt in my mind. All in all, Evans never averaged less points than Stephenson's career high despite his 'deterioration', and Evans' career assist average (4.9) is higher than Stephenson's career high (4.7)

Lol. We will just disagree on that one. Stephenson is a much better defender and rebounder, and is just as good at dishing out assist. Also shot a good clip better from deep and overall this season.

Yeah, Ill take Lance.