The Kevin Love Thread: Update PG. 67, 78

[WinCity]

The bulls have several non guaranteed deals. They really can trade taj, jimmy and picks for love using those non guaranteed deals as filler.

Okay so Boozer does not need to be included? Obviously his contract could be a sticking point.

Someone suggested trading Boozer, Snell, and Sac's pick to the Sixers for a $22m trade exception. That would set us up really nicely for a Melo trade.

If we can get Love, I think Melo would follow. We'd likely have this starting lineup:

C.Noah
PF.Love
SF.Melo
SG.Hinrich
PG. Rose

If we can find cheap quality bench players, then I would really like our chances.

Pretty good point. From a talent perspective having Love in place would be a big lure. If we get into a position to offer a reasonable salary, say $18+ mil per season, than I think the odds of getting him improve.

[mostek]

I don't think its going to take much to get Melo. I think Boozer, 16, 19 gets it done. PJ's alternative is nothing. No way Melo opts in and loses one more year of his prime, risks injury, and maybe doesn't get the big contract the following year in FA.

I think Taj, Jimmy, Sac pick, and fillers while taking back a bad contract gets it done for Love. That may be trumped by Klay from GSW but I don't know if GSW wants to break up the best 3pt shooting backcourt of all time.


This leaves us with Niko. I this scenario I trade him to the Lakers for their 7th pick which IMO they would do as they get something more proven, cheap, and can play right away with a resigned Gasol.

With the 7th pick we draft a wing or move back, grab two picks, draft a wing and McGary.

No matter what if Love comes Niko has to be traded.

Opting in gives Melo the best opportunity to maximize his earnings, unless he is injured, or plays poorly next season.

Of he opts out, his max contract would start at $22.76M, which would be a 5-year $128M deal, if he could extend with NY now, . The most he could make elsewhere is 4-year, $95.5M, and may not even got offered that.

If he did not opt out, he would make $23.3M, and then would be eligible for a 5-year $137.4M deal, or a 4-year $102.5M elsewhere. If he is not still worth max numbers, after only one season, the Bulls would be extremely lucky they did not get sucked in.

He is not getting anywhere near that money, at the end of any of those deals, so that is $161M for 6 years in NY, or $126M, with one year in NY, and 4 years elsewhere. He may not want to risk that he does not play at the same level, sustain an injury, or wait to see what Jackson can do with all that cap space in 2015, but he will be giving up a ton of cash, for that insurance.

[HomoSapien]

Okay so Boozer does not need to be included? Obviously his contract could be a sticking point.

Someone suggested trading Boozer, Snell, and Sac's pick to the Sixers for a $22m trade exception. That would set us up really nicely for a Melo trade.

If we can get Love, I think Melo would follow. We'd likely have this starting lineup:

C.Noah
PF.Love
SF.Melo
SG.Hinrich
PG. Rose

If we can find cheap quality bench players, then I would really like our chances.

Pretty good point. From a talent perspective having Love in place would be a big lure. If we get into a position to offer a reasonable salary, say $18+ mil per season, than I think the odds of getting him improve.

It'll change everything in this chase. Suddenly Rose being a question mark is pretty irrelevant. A team with Melo, Love, Noah, and Thibs alone is enough to challenge for a ring. Rose is a hell of a bonus.

Finding a good bench is important though. If things work out the way I'm hoping, then we'll essentially have a completely brand new team (Noah, Hinrich, Rose would likely be the only returnees). We'll have to find players that understand the culture and possibly Thibs so that there isn't a huge learning curve. Guys like Ray Allen and Pierce could be the next wave of targets for the minimum price tag. I also wouldn't be surprised to see a guy like Bogans or CJ Watson return.

[khufure]

Rose/Kirk/Barea
Harris/Snell
Melo/MDJ
Love/Melo
Noah/McGary

We'll be lucky to get Love or Melo, much less both. Gimme some of whatever you're smoking prz

[HoopsterJones]

1. Get Love : Taj, Jimmy, Sac Pick, and Non Guaranteeds for Love and one of (Budinger or Barea)

2. Get Melo : Boozer, 16, and 19

3. Trade Niko for Lakers 7th pick

4. Trade 7th pick for Suns 14 and 18

5. Draft Harris (need defender to replace Butler) and McGary


Rose/Kirk/Barea
Harris/Snell
Melo/MDJ
Love/Melo
Noah/McGary

3+ in a row!

1. Minny will have better future asset offers from other teams. If they were thinking win now then Taj and Jimmy are great pieces. I don't see them accepting this offer unless Bulls toss in more draft picks (possibly future 1st rounders and not necessarily this years).

2. This is only possible if Melo makes it known he wants out and wants to come to Chicago. Even still I'm iffy on it. Phil will probably want to win ASAP. Course again it's moot IF Melo makes it known he wants out.

3. No way Lakers do that for the #7 pick. Yes people are high on Nikola Mirotic, but there's a few players that may be available for them to take (Smart, Vonleh, Randle, Gordon). They don't have a lot of history with international players ( Divac, Medvedenko, Vujacic were some).

4. If in the unlikely scenario that the Bulls obtain the #7 pick, I would not be for a two for one swap for a later round player.

[OldSchoolNoBull]

The bulls have several non guaranteed deals. They really can trade taj, jimmy and picks for love using those non guaranteed deals as filler.

Okay so Boozer does not need to be included? Obviously his contract could be a sticking point.

Someone suggested trading Boozer, Snell, and Sac's pick to the Sixers for a $22m trade exception. That would set us up really nicely for a Melo trade.

If we can get Love, I think Melo would follow. We'd likely have this starting lineup:

C.Noah
PF.Love
SF.Melo
SG.Hinrich
PG. Rose

If we can find cheap quality bench players, then I would really like our chances.

I had this idea last week, but Dantown pointed out that you don't combine players' salaries to create a bigger TPE, and that if Philly(or any other team) were to absorb Boozer and Snell, we'd get two TPEs in the amounts of each of their salaries, meaning the most we could absorb is 16.8M via the TPE created from Boozer. Not sure where you got 22 from anyway, as Boozer and Snell total somewhere over 18M, I believe.

[HomoSapien]

Okay so Boozer does not need to be included? Obviously his contract could be a sticking point.

Someone suggested trading Boozer, Snell, and Sac's pick to the Sixers for a $22m trade exception. That would set us up really nicely for a Melo trade.

If we can get Love, I think Melo would follow. We'd likely have this starting lineup:

C.Noah
PF.Love
SF.Melo
SG.Hinrich
PG. Rose

If we can find cheap quality bench players, then I would really like our chances.

I had this idea last week, but Dantown pointed out that you don't combine players' salaries to create a bigger TPE, and that if Philly(or any other team) were to absorb Boozer and Snell, we'd get two TPEs in the amounts of each of their salaries, meaning the most we could absorb is 16.8M via the TPE created from Boozer. Not sure where you got 22 from anyway, as Boozer and Snell total somewhere over 18M, I believe.

I saw someone mention $22m (perhaps Dunleavy was also being included), but if this isn't possible then womp, womp, womp.

[Red Larrivee]

you completely missed the point. it's not about what they once were

It does matter. The better you are at basketball, the higher your floor is when you get older as a player. Tim Duncan, Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili's "old" is better than a lot of players prime.

did they win a championship or didn't they?

How many teams like the 04 Pistons have won championships? Now how many teams with multiple superstars have won championships? You can't single out a blip on the radar and use it as a championship model.

certainly. but not by much is my point. they pulled out some wins at the ends of games

They pulled out wins because they had multiple stars and we had 1 player doing everything on offense.

rose was missing open jumpers that he had knocked down all season long. on a sprained ankle

He was being double teamed and blitzed on pick/rolls with nobody else to help him. How are Butler, Taj and Noah supposed to help with that? None of them score efficiently nor are they high volume offensive players.

how did they only win 54 games this year?

Miami doesn't care about the regular season. They coast and try to preserve health/production.

derrick rose is certainly talented enough to play better than he did in 2011

He isn't talented to enough to beat a team like Miami by himself. That's the point.

and refresh my memory: who did the celtics trade for those two guys? seems to me they didn't have much of a team before they acquired those two. not so of this bulls team

They traded a 21-year-old Al Jefferson among other things, who is better than any of the Bulls players you're objecting to get traded. You are not winning a championship with Butler, Gibson and Noah starting together. It puts too much pressure on the other two players to have to be great all the time. Players have to be able to score the basketball.

[RedBulls23]

Bucher as we all know if far from reliable, so I'll take everything he says with a grain of salt.

Well, he nailed last year's Derrick Rose drama, so I wouldn't say he's unreliable at all. He clearly has some very close connections to Rose's camp and possibly even the Bulls.

Agreed. People are still holding on to the Kobe thing, but that was never his fault. He was clearly repeating what Kobe told him. It's not his fault that Kobe had a change of heart.

Also that the Lakers were never going to trade Kobe who's an all time great for the likes of an aging Ben Wallace, Tyrus Thomas and scraps. Especially with Kobe wanting Deng to stay in Chicago.

[boozapalooza]

This report is nothing more than posturing by Minny. Boston can offer a just as good, if not better, deal than we can. Jeff Green, Sullinger, the 6th pick, the collection of picks they have from Brooklyn, along with their own picks, they have solid assets. Send out reports that there's better offers, it'll get Boston to increase their offer. Nothing more to it here. I don't even think we can formally make a trade offer yet considering the season isn't over.

[WinCity]

Someone suggested trading Boozer, Snell, and Sac's pick to the Sixers for a $22m trade exception. That would set us up really nicely for a Melo trade.

If we can get Love, I think Melo would follow. We'd likely have this starting lineup:

C.Noah
PF.Love
SF.Melo
SG.Hinrich
PG. Rose

If we can find cheap quality bench players, then I would really like our chances.

Pretty good point. From a talent perspective having Love in place would be a big lure. If we get into a position to offer a reasonable salary, say $18+ mil per season, than I think the odds of getting him improve.

It'll change everything in this chase. Suddenly Rose being a question mark is pretty irrelevant. A team with Melo, Love, Noah, and Thibs alone is enough to challenge for a ring. Rose is a hell of a bonus.

Finding a good bench is important though. If things work out the way I'm hoping, then we'll essentially have a completely brand new team (Noah, Hinrich, Rose would likely be the only returnees). We'll have to find players that understand the culture and possibly Thibs so that there isn't a huge learning curve. Guys like Ray Allen and Pierce could be the next wave of targets for the minimum price tag. I also wouldn't be surprised to see a guy like Bogans or CJ Watson return.

Now my pessimism kicks in:

Its too good to be true! We become the new title favorites if this goes down, as people will probably expect MIA to be burnt out. CHI is just not that lucky anymore. We used it all up in the 90s!!

[RememberLu]

you completely missed the point. it's not about what they once were

It does matter. The better you are at basketball, the higher your floor is when you get older as a player. Tim Duncan, Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili's "old" is better than a lot of players prime.

did they win a championship or didn't they?

How many teams like the 04 Pistons have won championships? Now how many teams with multiple superstars have won championships? You can't single out a blip on the radar and use it as a championship model.

certainly. but not by much is my point. they pulled out some wins at the ends of games

They pulled out wins because they had multiple stars and we had 1 player doing everything on offense.

rose was missing open jumpers that he had knocked down all season long. on a sprained ankle

He was being double teamed and blitzed on pick/rolls with nobody else to help him. How are Butler, Taj and Noah supposed to help with that? None of them score efficiently nor are they high volume offensive players.

how did they only win 54 games this year?

Miami doesn't care about the regular season. They coast and try to preserve health/production.

derrick rose is certainly talented enough to play better than he did in 2011

He isn't talented to enough to beat a team like Miami by himself. That's the point.

and refresh my memory: who did the celtics trade for those two guys? seems to me they didn't have much of a team before they acquired those two. not so of this bulls team

They traded a 21-year-old Al Jefferson among other things, who is better than any of the Bulls players you're objecting to get traded. You are not winning a championship with Butler, Gibson and Noah starting together. It puts too much pressure on the other two players to have to be great all the time. Players have to be able to score the basketball.

you really don't think a suddenly wide open Jimmy. Noah and Taj can get the ball in the hole? I think they can. They struggle when we don't have guys like Rose and Melo on the roster. We had our offense filtering through Noah and Nate Robinson in some of these ridiculous injury riddled seasons. Really not fair to judge under those conditions

[The Force.]

People keep throwing Taj's name out there for Love but in the playoffs against Miami, would you rather have Love or Taj defending LeBron. Also, which guy would you rather have to help when Miami goes for the switch (they always do).

I think Love is a great player but he is questionable defensively and Miami will absolutely do everything possible to exploit that just as they did with Boozer.

If we can't secure Melo then obviously I'm fine with Love. However, simply swapping Love for Taj makes us a far better scoring team but far worse defensively.

IMO, we simply cannot win with one-dimensional players in the playoffs. Miami closes with 5 guys on the floor who can play both sides of the ball. The Bulls already have a ton of guys on the roster who are far too one-dimensional.

Just something to consider.

[coldfish]

I hate even talking about the dream scenarios but forgive me for a sec. Let me check the salaries:

Rose 18.8M
Noah 12.2M
Love 15.7M
Melo 20M ?
Total = 66.7M

The Bulls would basically be guaranteed to pay the tax in year 1. I really doubt the Bulls could pull this off or even want to.

[Red Larrivee]

you really don't think a suddenly wide open Jimmy. Noah and Taj can get the ball in the hole? I think they can. They struggle when we don't have guys like Rose and Melo on the roster. We had our offense filtering through Noah and Nate Robinson in some of these ridiculous injury riddled seasons. Really not fair to judge under those conditions

Do you think Kendrick Perkins can make wide open jump shots during a game and when it matters? There's no cure for bad offensive players unless you can limit their field goal attempts to wide open dunks like Tyson Chandler and DeAndre Jordan.

Any offensive possession that ends with Taj, Noah or Butler shooting a jump shot is a bad possession.

[jax98]

I hate even talking about the dream scenarios but forgive me for a sec. Let me check the salaries:

Rose 18.8M
Noah 12.2M
Love 15.7M
Melo 20M ?
Total = 66.7M

The Bulls would basically be guaranteed to pay the tax in year 1. I really doubt the Bulls could pull this off or even want to.

If they had a core of Noah, Love, Melo and Rose, I can't for the life of me imagine they wouldn't be ready to pay the tax for such a team.

Agreed about not being able to pull it off though.

[coldfish]

People keep throwing Taj's name out there for Love but in the playoffs against Miami, would you rather have Love or Taj defending LeBron. Also, which guy would you rather have to help when Miami goes for the switch (they always do).

I think Love is a great player but he is questionable defensively and Miami will absolutely do everything possible to exploit that just as they did with Boozer.

If we can't secure Melo then obviously I'm fine with Love. However, simply swapping Love for Taj makes us a far better scoring team but far worse defensively.

IMO, we simply cannot win with one-dimensional players in the playoffs. Miami closes with 5 guys on the floor who can play both sides of the ball. The Bulls already have a ton of guys on the roster who are far too one-dimensional.

Just something to consider.

There are multiple dimensions to the game. Scoring, passing, rebounding, man to man defense, help defense, etc. Love is good at several of them.

The problem with Boozer has always been that he has been unable to take advantage of mismatches. If a team goes small on Love / Noah, I think they would get murdered on the offensive glass at a minimum and possibly in the post. I don't think Lebron can guard Love in the paint for 40 minutes a game.

And here is where Noah comes in. On defense, the Bulls could actually have Love cover Bosh and Noah cover Lebron without getting killed.

[Red Larrivee]

People keep throwing Taj's name out there for Love but in the playoffs against Miami, would you rather have Love or Taj defending LeBron. Also, which guy would you rather have to help when Miami goes for the switch (they always do).

I think Love is a great player but he is questionable defensively and Miami will absolutely do everything possible to exploit that just as they did with Boozer.

If we can't secure Melo then obviously I'm fine with Love. However, simply swapping Love for Taj makes us a far better scoring team but far worse defensively.

IMO, we simply cannot win with one-dimensional players in the playoffs. Miami closes with 5 guys on the floor who can play both sides of the ball. The Bulls already have a ton of guys on the roster who are far too one-dimensional.

Just something to consider.

Taj isn't stopping LeBron and perimeter defense is overrated.

Chicago will still be an elite defensive team with or without Taj. The team Taj goes to is not a lock to. People said Chicago's defense would get worse after Omer Asik and Luol Deng left, yet Chicago is still elite defensively and neither of the teams those players went to have improved defensively at all.

Defense is about scheme, not necessarily players. Fortunately, Chicago has the Frankenstein of defensive schemes.

[mostek]

I hate even talking about the dream scenarios but forgive me for a sec. Let me check the salaries:

Rose 18.8M
Noah 12.2M
Love 15.7M
Melo 20M ?
Total = 66.7M

The Bulls would basically be guaranteed to pay the tax in year 1. I really doubt the Bulls could pull this off or even want to.

What sticks out to me is the worst player, would be the highest paid. I have no doubt the Bulls would pay the tax for the foreseeable future, if they could pull it off.

Noah does look like a real bargain doesn't he?

[Mech Engineer]

I hate even talking about the dream scenarios but forgive me for a sec. Let me check the salaries:

Rose 18.8M
Noah 12.2M
Love 15.7M
Melo 20M ?
Total = 66.7M

The Bulls would basically be guaranteed to pay the tax in year 1. I really doubt the Bulls could pull this off or even want to.

I think they will pay for that. There will be increased ratings with lots of storylines including Derrick's return, stars playing together and also a star coach in a big city. If the limit is 80 million for the apron, that's almost 14-15 million to fill the roster depending on Melo's salary.