The Kevin Love Thread: Update PG. 67, 78

[Mech Engineer]

My take is this. mysticbb has given us interesting analysis on how Love is better than Melo. I agree to some extent.. However, I think the fallacy is the assumption that you have to have every position on the team be a 3 pt shooter other than your 5.

My take is this.. the Bulls are better with

Rose
Butler
Melo
Taj
Noah

than with...

Rose
Butler or MLE target (?)
MDJ (?) IDK
Love
Noah

The fact is that Melo might be a better 3 pt shooter (better last season, at least by a significant 3FG%-- both have high volume) and probably a better post player than Love... stronger, able to bully ball his way to the rim.

I just think Melo/Taj at the 3/4 is better than MDJ/or unknown/ Love

The fact that the Bulls stayed out of the tax last season means I expect them to be willing to go a little more into the tax the next few years to make a true run. Nothing too frivolous, but enough to keep Taj and still get Melo. I guess in a nutshell.. the difference between Melo and unknown MLE/MDJ is a lot more than the difference between Taj and Love When you look at both ends of the floor

I'm with this..

That Love lineup is not better than the Melo one..Melo is more of a need than Love. I'm not cool with giving up Butler and Taj..we'd have to keep one of them. Butler is awesome on LeBron, I wouldn't like Melo on him..and if we had Melo than Taj is the perfect fit.

I don't think the Bulls plan to give up on Taj/Butler. They are the pieces you need after you acquire a Melo or Love. The cap is increasing and I know some people have these extreme plans in their quest for acquiring Melo by dumping everything.

If you need X(star) and Y, Z(good/great role players)....the Bulls have enough cap, assets to sync to keep the existing Y, Z and get the X instead of dumping Y, Z to get X to later get inferior Y, Z players.

[OldSchoolNoBull]

That's not it. You know how I hate the pure capspace plan where the Bulls send out Gibson and Dunleavey to sign Melo? I would take that a million times over rather than get the shaft that the Bulls are about to give us. I would HAPPILY trade Gibson, Butler and picks for Love too.

We will see. Hopefully I am reading the tea leaves wrong.

Fish, do you have a source or something? Is there something that you know for a fact, or close to a fact, that you can't share with us outright?

I got a lot of replies to this. I do not have a source. I do have people who have contacts who have contacts, etc. and some of that is being backed up by media reports and poorly sourced leaks like this. I'm not sure what to believe and the picture being painted is not pretty. Don't get excited about my comments. I would just recommend watching on draft night like the reddit source said. I know I will be.

Ok, but can you just answer this with a yes or no: is Melo still the ultimate goal for the FO right now?

EDIT: And I probably won't be able to watch the draft - I'm on vacation in Europe and will still be on draft night, no way to watch but streaming and my internet access is paid by bandwidth, so I'll probably just have to settle for following the draft via here and nbadraft.net and draftxpress and espn.com(that stuff is fine, just video streaming kills bandwidth). Probably won't get to watch any of the finals either for the same reason.

[kodo]

c) I'm slightly nervous Love is an empty stats guy, to a degree. More of a 2nd option on a contender as opposed to a 1A/1B.

Empty Stat guys are guys who generate a lot of boxscore but don't lead their team to wins. Love's team had more wins than Melo's team, how is Love an empty stats guy and Melo not? Esp since NY was in the EC and even teams like Charlotte and ATL without Horford made the playoffs.

And I think more than 1 person asked the same question because Melo wasn't even voted to the NBA 3rd team this season.

Love isn't a 1A Finals championship player like MJ or Lebron, and neither is Melo. If that's the goal, we should scrap any plan this season and collect cap space for the 2016 lottery of Durant if he even leaves OKC in the first place.I don't think anybody wants another "20xx Plan."

In terms of how far they elevate bad teams, Melo & Love really aren't that far apart, both are a league below Lebron.

[coldfish]

Ok, but can you just answer this with a yes or no: is Melo still the ultimate goal for the FO right now?

EDIT: And I probably won't be able to watch the draft - I'm on vacation in Europe and will still be on draft night, no way to watch but streaming and my internet access is paid by bandwidth, so I'll probably just have to settle for following the draft via here and nbadraft.net and draftxpress and espn.com(that stuff is fine, just video streaming kills bandwidth). Probably won't get to watch any of the finals either for the same reason.

I do not know the answer to that question. Please don't consider me a source by any stretch of the imagination.

[Chitownbulls]

Just find a way to dump Dunleavy, snell and the other scrub players. Amnesty Booz, and go after Melo with 17-18mil.

If he wants to win and make some good money, playing with Rose butler Noah taj and Thibs is the place to go.

Bring Mirotic over next year if we have too.

[Magilla_Gorilla]

c) I'm slightly nervous Love is an empty stats guy, to a degree. More of a 2nd option on a contender as opposed to a 1A/1B.

Empty Stat guys are guys who generate a lot of boxscore but don't lead their team to wins. Love's team had more wins than Melo's team, how is Love an empty stats guy and Melo not? Esp since NY was in the EC and even teams like Charlotte and ATL without Horford made the playoffs.

Melo made the playoffs every year of his career but last season. Love has never been to the playoffs.

[Mech Engineer]

c) I'm slightly nervous Love is an empty stats guy, to a degree. More of a 2nd option on a contender as opposed to a 1A/1B.

Empty Stat guys are guys who generate a lot of boxscore but don't lead their team to wins. Love's team had more wins than Melo's team, how is Love an empty stats guy and Melo not? Esp since NY was in the EC and even teams like Charlotte and ATL without Horford made the playoffs.

And I think more than 1 person asked the same question because Melo wasn't even voted to the NBA 3rd team this season.

Love isn't a 1A Finals championship player like MJ or Lebron, and neither is Melo. If that's the goal, we should scrap any plan this season and collect cap space for the 2016 lottery of Durant if he even leaves OKC in the first place.I don't think anybody wants another "20xx Plan."

In terms of how far they elevate bad teams, Melo & Love really aren't that far apart, both are a league below Lebron.

Great points. That is why both these guys need a lot of support from "supposed" role players compared to LeBron. Another issue with Melo is all his success has been in the past(pretty good) but how much percentage of it will work in the future? With Love, you can make a logical guess that the better part of his career will be in the next 4-5 years which is not the case with Melo.

Will Melo's decline still be better than an ascending Love's career in terms of impact?

[dice]

c) I'm slightly nervous Love is an empty stats guy, to a degree. More of a 2nd option on a contender as opposed to a 1A/1B.

Empty Stat guys are guys who generate a lot of boxscore but don't lead their team to wins. Love's team had more wins than Melo's team, how is Love an empty stats guy and Melo not? Esp since NY was in the EC and even teams like Charlotte and ATL without Horford made the playoffs.

Melo made the playoffs every year of his career but last season. Love has never been to the playoffs.

in any normal year that minny team is in the playoffs and the knicks aren't close

and i'm sure i'm not the only one that heard the "he's not a winner" argument when KG was in minnesota

[bullslas]

Maybe the Bulls are planning on trading Noah and starting a new rebuild? Seems odd, we have stories saying they are going after Love then we hear other stories about being very disappointed... it's going to be a long few weeks...

[BullsNumber1Fan]

Ok, but can you just answer this with a yes or no: is Melo still the ultimate goal for the FO right now?

EDIT: And I probably won't be able to watch the draft - I'm on vacation in Europe and will still be on draft night, no way to watch but streaming and my internet access is paid by bandwidth, so I'll probably just have to settle for following the draft via here and nbadraft.net and draftxpress and espn.com(that stuff is fine, just video streaming kills bandwidth). Probably won't get to watch any of the finals either for the same reason.

I do not know the answer to that question. Please don't consider me a source by any stretch of the imagination.

Could you just say if whatever you heard has to do with the Bulls trading Noah for a pick or something like that? There has to be a reason for saying what you've said the last page.

[qianlong]

Now I'm calling BS, but take this for what you will -

From the Chicago Bulls Reddit page...

http://www.reddit.com/r/chicagobulls/co ... liar_with/

This Bulls "offer" to Minnesota is completely made up (as some of you know already). Bulls aren't too high on Love because of his contract and really both sides haven't talked to each other at all. I will say that i know for a fact that the Bulls have called regarding Love but the convo really didn't go anywhere. This happened about a week ago or so.
Oh ya be prepared for a BIG trade on draft night. Its not 100% but it will sure be the headline if these wheels stayed greased till then.
Regards, Someone who hopefully doesn't lose his job soon

I can't really see how this isn't made up but I guess we'll just have to wait and see. This will be a long few weeks.

Also, he said "I'm familiar with people within the FO" yet says 'I hope I don't lose my job". Thought I'd post it but yeah, I'm not convinced either but what he said or the credibility of who he says he is.

Ralph has touched on this. The other stuff I have read and heard indicate that the Bulls have a truly awful plan in place that will get going on draft night. If you are one of the "burn it down" guys, you very well might get your wish. It conflicts somewhat with the Love leaks.

I have to say i was one of the tankerish fan, when Rose went down, and I was an even more fervent trade deng and rebuild the summer Rose went down the first time, I wanted to move him for a pick and a contract.

But now?

We have Rose returning, Taj Improving, Noah a DPOY, Butler a good role player, Mirotic on the wings, two picks in a deep draft, possibility to add some relevant cap space, two stars to go after. If we don't strike gold we may not be true contenders, but i expect this team to go at least to the second round next year, without mortgaging the future. I think it is a very good situation.

I cannot immagine what crap they could do? You are open to trading butler or taj, so it should be even more than that. Are they going to move them for the 9th pick keep boozer and stop there? are they going to trade Rose or Noah?

All of a sudden a terrifying idea arrived, are they going to trade thibs rights on draft night? That could match with all the thibs talk and the draft night timetable. Hope not.

[Magilla_Gorilla]

Empty Stat guys are guys who generate a lot of boxscore but don't lead their team to wins. Love's team had more wins than Melo's team, how is Love an empty stats guy and Melo not? Esp since NY was in the EC and even teams like Charlotte and ATL without Horford made the playoffs.

Melo made the playoffs every year of his career but last season. Love has never been to the playoffs.

in any normal year that minny team is in the playoffs and the knicks aren't close

and i'm sure i'm not the only one that heard the "he's not a winner" argument when KG was in minnesota

And yet here we are, in this season, and neither of them made the playoffs.

[BullsFTW]

From the looks of it, Melo remains to be the Bulls first priority. The way to approach that scenario is what we don't know, and we'll get an idea come draft day. Everything is all rumors and speculations at this point, but I'm certain the Bulls will look to get significantly better next season, and Melo is their main target.

[Magilla_Gorilla]

From the Minny board and Flip Saunders press conference:

Two things:

-Flip said we need to get much better defensively.
-Flip talked about setting a good foundation.

To me, I think the Chicago offer is in the lead because it definitely satisfies both needs better than any other offer could.

No, the top-end guys might not be there, but by setting the foundation in the trade, it allows us to take chances on high upside rather than the need to focus on BPA because you're too scared to miss on a pick.

If defense is a priority - the Chicago offer of Gibson and Butler certainly trumps all others.

[DanTown8587]

Empty Stat guys are guys who generate a lot of boxscore but don't lead their team to wins. Love's team had more wins than Melo's team, how is Love an empty stats guy and Melo not? Esp since NY was in the EC and even teams like Charlotte and ATL without Horford made the playoffs.

Melo made the playoffs every year of his career but last season. Love has never been to the playoffs.

in any normal year that minny team is in the playoffs and the knicks aren't close

and i'm sure i'm not the only one that heard the "he's not a winner" argument when KG was in minnesota

LOl what? Minny finished the year with 40 wins and eight games out of a playoff spot and 10th in their conference. They weren't close in any sort of historical way to being a playoff team.

Kevin Love set a career high in team wins this year with 40.

Carmelo Anthony had NEVER been below 42 in a non-lockout season before this year.

[micromonkey]

OK now lets speculate on this dreadful burn it down plan coldfish alludes too

Would it be
Butler AND a pick for Barnes
Taj for a better pick (used to take McBuckets)
Then we bring over Mirotic for $6M+
Noah for Embiid
Trade boozer and other pick for expiring/non guarantees
wait for Lebron to get older


burn baby burn

[bad knees]

Coldfish has said that he has nothing to support any of his comments - just his gut feeling from a collection of rumors. I suggest we ignore them and move on.

[kyrv]

No clue the bad plan but

Butler and #19 for Barnes

Boozer and #16 for cap considerations

would fit the bill. Seems unlikely though, but it is bad.

Besides I've been told x 4257 Booz is getting amnestied.

[Payt10]

I'll take a shot at the bad plan.

Jimmy + pick for Barnes
Noah for Gordon Hayward + a pick
Thibs for a pick
Boozer not amnestied

[BullsFTW]

From the Minny board and Flip Saunders press conference:

Two things:

-Flip said we need to get much better defensively.
-Flip talked about setting a good foundation.

To me, I think the Chicago offer is in the lead because it definitely satisfies both needs better than any other offer could.

No, the top-end guys might not be there, but by setting the foundation in the trade, it allows us to take chances on high upside rather than the need to focus on BPA because you're too scared to miss on a pick.

If defense is a priority - the Chicago offer of Gibson and Butler certainly trumps all others.

Taj + Jimmy + MDJ + #16 & #19 for Love

CHI Gets: Melo
NYK Gets: TPE & Mirotic
PHI Gets: Boozer + SAC Pick + Rights to swap with CLE

F Melo
F Love
C Noah
G Snell
G Rose
Bench: Hinrich, Smith, MLE, BAE, Vet Min