Official #2 Pick Thread - Ford #7: Parker

[Baddy Chuck]

Could be. That's what happens when you wait too long to deal a guy you never should've kept in the first place.

Believe me, I've been right there with you saying we should've traded him at every step.

One team I'd look at now would be Washington, I think they could take the risk on him especially if they lose Gortat. I've been told they could've likely traded their lottery pick for him last season .

[europa]

Could be. That's what happens when you wait too long to deal a guy you never should've kept in the first place.

Believe me, I've been right there with you saying we should've traded him at every step.

I never wanted to re-sign him when he was a FA. The fact not a single team made a serious offer for him then was pretty revealing in my opinion. But one dinner with Herb and he was a Buck for life.

[Turk Nowitzki]

Ilyasova just needs to go. I can't think of any reason to keep him on a team that should be rebuilding with youth.

I might have to change my screen name. HAVE YOU THOUGHT ABOUT THAT!?!

[europa]

Ilyasova just needs to go. I can't think of any reason to keep him on a team that should be rebuilding with youth.

I might have to change my screen name. HAVE YOU THOUGHT ABOUT THAT!?!

Nowak still has a Mo Williams sig. I think you're safe.

[Bernman]

That's not my ideal starting 5 either but only an idea.

I'd look to deal Henson while he still has value as well. I'd do everything I can to flip Henson for Nurkic. While I think looking at both Asik and Dieng are good ideas in theory, I would only move Ersan for Dieng. I don't think Payne can play too much 5, but if he can I'd love to be wrong. And I think Smart can play PG too

Smart/Wolters
Middleton/Bogdanovic or Adams
Giannis/Defino
Parker/Ersan(?)
Nurkic/Zaza/Miroslav

*Assuming a Sanders/Knight trade for 7 and we take Parker and Smart and Henson is dealt for Nurkic

You don't like Asik, or maybe his situation being a vet and on a 1-year deal. I get that.

But I don't like Nurkic either. I think it would be a good strategy to try and flip Henson for him otherwise because he is a true center and is considered value around that spot. However, I just see a lot of Gadzuric and Biyombo there. He gets baited hard on an opponent's first move, offensively and defensively, and thus is heavily prone to fouls and fools. To wit I think his production overseas is probably fool's gold. He can't, legally, play much more than he does in a game. And the block plus steal rate he has when he is actually on the court, you have to balance with his ridiculously high foul and turnover rate, and the fact that so often he's probably not there to challenge an opposing player at the rim because he's gambling whereas a disciplined defender like Bogut was for example would just stay there and get the non-statistical but more effective alter. I also see some Araujo with Nurkic in that, to an extent, he has to be highly aggressive because he's not very long for a center. Otherwise it's a product of coming to the game late, and outside of anomalies like I think Embiid is, most guys with that background don't figure it out.

I'd much prefer Payne because he does have the instincts for the most part of a player who has been around the game for a while, as well as an extra-ordinary skill-set for a long-armed guy. Most guys who have around a 7'4" wingspan, are 6'10"+, and 240, can't shoot, handle, and have the first step to blow by people off the dribble. But Payne does. His game reminds me of older KG with the Celts, or Cliff Robinson's. That 7'4" wingspan gives him a lot of center potential on the defensive end at least. He's got the same wingspan basically as Vonleh, with 1 more inch of height and standing reach, and many are saying Vonleh is a pf/c. So it should be easily a viable plan for Payne.

Going back to Asik as a more true center option, and someone who'd project to help out more in the interim, I like him enough for 2 reasons: 1. he's the type of defensive and rebounding center the Bucks could need with Parker at pf, and 2. we need to pay some players to make the minimum and he's someone the Bucks could extend for a few years and then have come off cap before we need to address the projected young core's monetary desires. I am inclined to think he would take an extension/re-sign because of what he experienced in Houston being blocked and he wouldn't have that problem here for a while most likely. I would prefer Dieng too because we wouldn't have to worry about extending him and he has some upside still, but maybe that's why the T-Wolves wouldn't deal him that easily by the same token. It helps to have multiple options, and to keep them open.

All that said, looking at your revised lineup projection, we aren't far off anyway. Just a lone, glaring mistake from my POV, but seldom do you get everything you want.

[Badgerlander]

Or just take 7'2" Tavares with his 7'8.5" wingspan

[tweet]https://twitter.com/contracanasta/status/468694645422440448[/tweet]

[KingCammo]

Holy hell that guy is massive.

[DanoMac]

Ilyasova just needs to go. I can't think of any reason to keep him on a team that should be rebuilding with youth.

I might have to change my screen name. HAVE YOU THOUGHT ABOUT THAT!?!

Nowak still has a Mo Williams sig. I think you're safe.

My photoshop skillz is Nowaks weakness. He can never remove that sig

[Madtown]

My general take on our pick as of right now is this:

1. Embiid is clearly the best prospect.
2. My board is Embiid/Wiggins/Parker/Exum.
3. If Embiid goes #1, and we take Parker, I will disagree with it but not really have a strong negative opinion on it, as I really like Parker in addition to Wiggins.
4. I like Exum, but I like the other three better at the moment, so I'd be somewhat displeased if he was the pick at #2.
5. If Embiid does not go #1, and we pass on him, there had better be a VERY good explanation for doing so (i.e. his back is a ticking time bomb), and not just because of fit, etc.

I agree with all of this, except for kinda #4. I'm a bit scared off by the new owners' lack of love and their talk of wanting a guy who wants to be there. It makes me think Exum has made it clear he wants nothing to do with Milwaukee. If they take him #2, I'd be more than thrilled though. That'd mean they really weren't that concerned with that and that they view him as a star. Man. It'd be really fun to see Exum play with Giannis.

[Bernman]

I wouldn't draft a guy out of position just because he's really big and I preferably would acquire a true center.

What about this trade instead, if Sanders and Embiid go by the wayside, and Love's stay in Minnesota has come to a premature end?

Bucks receive: Dieng, #27 (from Phoenix), Mbah A Moute, Shved

Wolves receive: Ilyasova, #18 (from Phoenix)

Suns receive: Henson

Then we'd have:

Dieng
Parker
Giannis
Middleton
Smart

+ picks 27, 31, and 35. Might still be able to trade up to 20 or so w/ 31 and 35, and get Payne. At 27 BPA of Adams, Bogdonavic, and Wilcox. I'd be thrilled with that team going forward.

[Baddy Chuck]

I doubt after the season Dieng had they'd give him up for that.

[Frank Nova]

Spoiler:

I knew u were exaggerating and didn't mean to come off like I was taking what u said literately, 1st off it takes longer than 2 seconds off the shot clock to even cross half court so shooting a 3 in that time span is already out of the question if we want to get technical lol.

Basically my point boils down to coaching. And I mean it's not like we are talking ball pounders like Lance Stephenson or Brandon Jennings though. I think ur describing more selfish style players. I don't view Knight as "selfish" and I can't see Smart being that way either unless he falls into a situation in LAL where he might have the highest usage rate for any rookie ever. But how's that his fault? More than likely that'll be the role given to him by his coach right? Both Knight and Smart seem like decently high IQ guys. A good coach could figure out the roles of each player and how to exploit team and individual strengths and hide team and individual weaknesses.

I mean for the sake of argument I can also put it like this, if Larry Drew is the coach then I retract pretty much everything I said and agree with u 100% that Smart and Knight couldn't co-exist. But, if the coach that fits my description (whoever it may be) is brought in, then it should be no problem for every player to buy into the system and that back court with both their skill sets could work no questions whatsoever.

I don't see any coach that could get it to work. It isn't a system that would need to be built around them, their mindsets would need to COMPLETELY change. Like a Zach Randolph 1:1000000 change.

I don't think Knight can be a point guard at all in his future. Smart has the potential word on his side, but I don't see it either. If he has any hope (IMO) you need to find his Eric Snow equivalent. We might just have a B list version of that on our roster already in Wolters though.

I read ur posts all the time and respect ur views and opinions so I think we are better off just agreeing to disagree on the subject. Maybe I'm over valuing good/great coaching or maybe ur under valuing it. But having said that, maybe my expectations of Knight are unrealistic but truthfully I blame a lot of his short comings on terrible coaching. I think Smart will be able to guard most SGs so defensively I don't see much of a problem and offensively as long as Drew isn't coaching his 1 dimensional ISO offense, I'd be easily optimistic for them to co-exist.

[Bernman]

I doubt after the season Dieng had they'd give him up for that.

Then again, you're a guy who thinks Ersan now has no value after one bad season, so you're an extremist on the issue.

Reports are though Ersan's value is a pick around where Dieng went in a horrible draft. They'd be getting that pick in an excellent draft, plus an 18, plus salary clearances of a couple overpaid players right now. Not to mention Dieng is blocked by Pekovic. Seems fair enough then, all things considered.

[Baddy Chuck]

I doubt after the season Dieng had they'd give him up for that.

Then again, you're a guy who thinks Ersan now has no value after one bad season, so you're an extremist on the issue.

Reports are though Ersan's value is a pick around where Dieng went in a horrible draft. They'd be getting that pick in an excellent draft, plus an 18, plus salary clearances of a couple overpaid players right now. Not to mention Dieng is blocked by Pekovic. Seems fair enough then, all things considered.

Even if Ersan has/had any value, I don't see it. What would you say at best Ersan's value would be currently? MAYBE a 15-20 pick? I wouldn't trade Dieng for 2 15-20 picks after what he showed last season. He was a monster the second half of the season. Most of the guys you're taking at 15-20 you'd be praying showed any bit of potential as Dieng showed. Personally, if Love is moved, I'd see them looking to move Pekovic 10/10 times before Dieng.

[JEIS]

Pretty sure out of the last 35 championship winners 34 of them had a top 3 pick on their roster....

Maybe Hambone saw that stat and that's why we got Mayo.

[Bernman]

Even if Ersan has/had any value, I don't see it. What would you say at best Ersan's value would be currently? MAYBE a 15-20 pick? I wouldn't trade Dieng for 2 15-20 picks after what he showed last season. He was a monster the second half of the season. Most of the guys you're taking at 15-20 you'd be praying showed any bit of potential as Dieng showed. Personally, if Love is moved, I'd see them looking to move Pekovic 10/10 times before Dieng.

They would be getting 2-3 times what they originally bought the stock for.

And Dieng would have raised the stock that much by performing in the dog days of the NBA season for the veterans and rookies who had already hit the wall. It would be a risk to hold onto the stock for longer. A risk they would not be in position to take really after years of tanking, and Pekovic being the much more proven guy who plays the same position.

I think Dieng is the one who is more likely to be traded, and they don't get much more than I suggested, if at all.

[Baddy Chuck]

I read ur posts all the time and respect ur views and opinions so I think we are better off just agreeing to disagree on the subject. Maybe I'm over valuing good/great coaching or maybe ur under valuing it. But having said that, maybe my expectations of Knight are unrealistic but truthfully I blame a lot of his short comings on terrible coaching. I think Smart will be able to guard most SGs so defensively I don't see much of a problem and offensively as long as Drew isn't coaching his 1 dimensional ISO offense, I'd be easily optimistic for them to co-exist.

I think both, by a wide margin, will have most of their offensive success in a one dimensional ISO system. Things could change but we've already seen Knight showcased off the ball in Detroit, next to a very good point guard in Calderon, and he was extremely pedestrian. I just don't see him ever really succeeding in that role, unless you get a couple superstars and he buys into the Mario Chalmers mindset and sticks to 3+D. Smart I think could eventually be wrangled in somewhat, like Monta was in Dallas, but a lot has to work out for him to be the passer or scorer Monta is. Like even the "wrangled into the team concept" Dallas version Monta, I think he's going to struggle mightily at times with that "alpha" mindset in the back of his head telling him to zone out teammates and jack up a lot of shots. That's where I think you need that calming factor to handle the ball at times next to him, like Wolters, and not another chuck happy, tunnel visioned scorer like Knight.

[Matches Malone]

I wouldn't draft a guy out of position just because he's really big and I preferably would acquire a true center.

What about this trade instead, if Sanders and Embiid go by the wayside, and Love's stay in Minnesota has come to a premature end?

Bucks receive: Dieng, #27 (from Phoenix), Mbah A Moute, Shved

Wolves receive: Ilyasova, #18 (from Phoenix)

Suns receive: Henson

Then we'd have:

Dieng
Parker
Giannis
Middleton
Smart

+ picks 27, 31, and 35. Might still be able to trade up to 20 or so w/ 31 and 35, and get Payne. At 27 BPA of Adams, Bogdonavic, and Wilcox. I'd be thrilled with that team going forward.

That would be an awesome team. I love Dieng a lot. Think he could be really good. In his 15 starts at center he averaged 12ppg and 12rpg with a block. Not bad. You could also maybe take Wiggins, and maybe Gordon or Vonleh instead of Parker/Smart

Dieng
Gordon/Vonleh
Giannis
Wiggins
Knight

[AussieBuck]

I still don't think anyone wants Ersan after last season.

I'd like my young guys to have space to play plus Ersan's awesome.

[Ill-yasova]

Ilyasova just needs to go. I can't think of any reason to keep him on a team that should be rebuilding with youth.

I might have to change my screen name. HAVE YOU THOUGHT ABOUT THAT!?!

Didn't occur to me...