Is it really better to make the finals and lose?

disenfranchised · Post #1 » by **disenfranchised** » Sun Jun 8, 2014 5:11 pm

I keep hearing "it is better to make the finals and lose than to not make the finals at all." While I agree to an extent, I don't think it's that cut and dry.

My take...

IMO, if you have a team good enough to make the finals, you have a team good enough to win the title. (Most of the time) There are exceptions, obviously. However, if you don't even make the finals, then you absolutely had no chance to win the finals. (Most times) Therefore, if you make the finals and lose, you have failed because your team was good enough and you choked. The Heat, for example, were good enough in 2011 and choked. The Heat are good enough to win it all this year and if they don't, it'll be another choke. The Lakers in 2004 were good enough, but Kobe choked. If you lose before the finals, you usually just weren't a good enough team and there is no shame in that.

Why isn't Wilt considered better than Russell? Think about it. Why isn't West considered better than Kobe? Some players get it done when the lights are the brightest, while others fail because they don't have the 'alpha gene.'

doozyj · Post #2 » by **doozyj** » Sun Jun 8, 2014 5:14 pm

Your agenda is crystal clear.

Q C · Post #3 » by **Q C** » Sun Jun 8, 2014 5:15 pm

according to RealGM the only 2 acceptable scenarios for a team is winning the championship or having a top 3 overall pick.

D.Brasco · Post #4 » by **D.Brasco** » Sun Jun 8, 2014 5:18 pm

I've never heard the argument that losing in the finals is somehow worse than not making it until people started bringing that up for LeBron.

Jerry West made it 9 times and won once yet i've rarely heard that to disparage him. Magic lost 4 NBA finals, Bird lost a few times. Making the finals is an achievement in itself.

I see people use the 6/6 argument for Jordan, when in reality it's more like 6/15 when you think about it.

Shaud · Post #5 » by **Shaud** » Sun Jun 8, 2014 5:19 pm

Ask Tracy McGrady this question, he is still bashed for never making it out of the 1st round when he was the main guy.

Ask Chris Paul this question who has never made it out of the 2nd around and people are beginning to call him out for it.

Post #6 » by **Thugger HBC** » Sun Jun 8, 2014 5:23 pm

i wonder if the Spurs would rather had not made the finals last season.

Thats who should be asked....the last loser.

Post #7 » by **dockingsched** » Sun Jun 8, 2014 5:32 pm

So the spurs had a better season when they lost in the 1st round as the one seed than they did last year....alrighty.

RamonSessions7 · Post #8 » by **RamonSessions7** » Sun Jun 8, 2014 5:36 pm

There is absolutely no way losing before the finals is better than losing in the finals.

The "well, if you're team is good enough to make it, they are good enough to win it" argument is really an awful one. You could just keep going. Well if your team was good enough to make the conference finals, they should make the finals. If you're good enough to make the playoffs, you're good enough to make the 2nd round. If you're good enough to be the 9th seed, you should be good enough to make the playoffs.

NaturalBuns · Post #9 » by **NaturalBuns** » Sun Jun 8, 2014 5:36 pm

Go ask Mcgrady, Nash, CP3
and the "can't get a team to finals" talks

id rather at least get to finals 10/10

Sign5 · Post #10 » by **Sign5** » Sun Jun 8, 2014 5:37 pm

Another thread with Op's agenda on LeBron. :noway:

bobly · Post #11 » by **bobly** » Sun Jun 8, 2014 5:39 pm

abark · Post #12 » by **abark** » Sun Jun 8, 2014 5:47 pm

So all other series are decided by who the better team is, but the NBA Finals is decided by who chokes the least?

Nice Bulls logo OP...

FinNasty · Post #13 » by **FinNasty** » Sun Jun 8, 2014 5:49 pm

Lol!

Don't worry about your precious Jordan OP...

Blame Rasho · Post #14 » by **Blame Rasho** » Sun Jun 8, 2014 5:49 pm

dockingsched wrote:So the spurs had a better season when they lost in the 1st round as the one seed than they did last year....alrighty.

Too much logic... logic overload....

It is like boxing... you want to win every title shot you got, but it isn't the end of the world if you lose. Would be better to fight for the title and lose, or have a pretty record and never fight for a title.

It is pretty clear to me...

BKing10 · Post #15 » by **BKing10** » Sun Jun 8, 2014 5:56 pm

lol no agenda here.

Let's rephrase your question. Is it better to lose in the conference finals or the NBA finals?

OffTheWall2 · Post #16 » by **OffTheWall2** » Sun Jun 8, 2014 5:56 pm

People have a better recollection of the 2 teams that make the Finals (including the losing team) than they do the teams who finished 1st in their respective conferences.

NBAfan3024 · Post #17 » by **NBAfan3024** » Sun Jun 8, 2014 6:06 pm

Depends who you are I suppose.. Standards seem to change

Johnny Firpo · Post #18 » by **Johnny Firpo** » Sun Jun 8, 2014 6:12 pm

It should be better, but the truth is, that is not what the media usually implies, and especially all-time great players have a lot to lose with each finals, more than their rings. Fair or not, this is how it goes. Also, i don't think it's fair to say that Jordan was 6/15. Other than '95, when he had a great team, he always won. Just think about it. If Lebron loses this year, this will be his second loss when he had a team that was good enough to win, and i think it's fair it this will be pointed out. When MJ had a good enough team to win, he probably went 6/7, and in the year they didn't win, he was coming back after one and a half years.

MisterWestside · Post #19 » by **MisterWestside** » Sun Jun 8, 2014 6:14 pm

Johnny Firpo wrote:It should be better, but the truth is, that is not what the media usually implies, and especially all-time great players have a lot to lose with each finals, more than their rings. Fair or not, this is how it goes. Also, i don't think it's fair to say that Jordan was 6/15. Other than '95, when he had a great team, he always won. Just think about it. If Lebron loses this year, this will be his second loss when he had a team that was good enough to win, and i think it's fair it this will be pointed out. When MJ had a good enough team to win, he probably went 6/7, and in the year they didn't win, he was coming back after one and a half years.

I keep seeing the word team in your post. As if James and Jordan aren't capable of winning by themselves, and using team records in the playoffs is silly.

Also, the '89 and '90 Bulls were good enough to beat those Pistons teams. Average margin of victory was 4 and 3 points, respectively; the '90 series went seven games. When you also consider the fact that homecourt is worth about 3 points, then you can say that the Bulls were in prime position to represent the East in both seasons.

Post #20 » by **PaulieWal** » Sun Jun 8, 2014 6:19 pm

Johnny Firpo wrote:It should be better, but the truth is, that is not what the media usually implies, and especially all-time great players have a lot to lose with each finals, more than their rings. Fair or not, this is how it goes. Also, i don't think it's fair to say that Jordan was 6/15. Other than '95, when he had a great team, he always won. Just think about it. If Lebron loses this year, this will be his second loss when he had a team that was good enough to win, and i think it's fair it this will be pointed out. When MJ had a good enough team to win, he probably went 6/7, and in the year they didn't win, he was coming back after one and a half years.

What if Miami loses with LeBron having a great series? It's not as simple as losing with a "team that was good enough to win". At the end of the day it is still a team game and he will need contributions from Bosh/Wade and Chalmers/Allen/Lewis/Birdman etc.