Who's better?Prime Elton Brand or Current Blake Griffin?

[TheBomb81]

Who would you take?

[og15]

You mean the 05-06 Brand? He was better, he was a better shooter, similar scorer, but a superior defensive player, a good part of that due to length. Despite his 6'8 height, Brand has the reach of a C while Blake is 6'10 and has the reach of a SF.

He played 45.5 mpg, so we have to adjust for that, but he dropped 31/10/4 with 3 blocks and .628 TS% vs the Suns in the post-season. That was the punishment for putting little people on him. That series hurt, the Clippers had it. Sigh...

[Quake Griffin]

**** Raja Bell.

[Angel strike1]

You mean the 05-06 Brand? He was better, he was a better shooter, similar scorer, but a superior defensive player, a good part of that due to length. Despite his 6'8 height, Brand has the reach of a C while Blake is 6'10 and has the reach of a SF.

He played 45.5 mpg, so we have to adjust for that, but he dropped 31/10/4 with 3 blocks and .628 TS% vs the Suns in the post-season. That was the punishment for putting little people on him. That series hurt, the Clippers had it. Sigh...

I swear I still have nightmares about this.

Ice cold Ewing with 0 minutes played gets in as defensive substitution.

Wide open 3 boom.

Then again cassel supposedly taking forever to cross the 1/2 court even when clearly he didn't.




Grr. Just can't forget

[Forte IV]

Nevertheless it was a hell of a series. To go right at a good Suns team. Losing one, then winning one throughout that entire series. Back and forth. Even with me being in middle school at the time it was a great series to witness.

[mj_shoefanatic]

I'd take 06 Brand over 14 Griffin.

[NBAWestFan]

I like Blake. Brand was a Superior Rebounder because he used his positioning and body.
Brand was not a leaper but a small sized power forward with a decent mid range shot
but he was not always commanding the ball.

Blake has alot more athleticism and potential. Once Blake gets his shot down
he will be hard to stop. He has had 40 point games and I don't think Brand had very
few 40 point games if any.

Blake is just got more upside.

[SJSF]

Brand is and was a man. Blake is soft. Brand wound bully blake all over the court.

[ejftw]

Elton Brand was the superior player.

But I take Blake 7.5 times out of 10. Brand was a second fiddle and stuck in Beta-mentality. Blake has shown that he has the ability to be an Alpha.

[theFRANCHISE]

god that sam cassell 8 sec violation still bothers me anyways 06 Brand was more consistent than 14 Blake. Numbers might be the same, but I think Brand's playoff rebounding, free throw and field goal % are slightly higher.

2006 Brand on the 2014 Clippers would have made the finals haha

[theFRANCHISE]

You mean the 05-06 Brand? He was better, he was a better shooter, similar scorer, but a superior defensive player, a good part of that due to length. Despite his 6'8 height, Brand has the reach of a C while Blake is 6'10 and has the reach of a SF.

He played 45.5 mpg, so we have to adjust for that, but he dropped 31/10/4 with 3 blocks and .628 TS% vs the Suns in the post-season. That was the punishment for putting little people on him. That series hurt, the Clippers had it. Sigh...

I swear I still have nightmares about this.

Ice cold Ewing with 0 minutes played gets in as defensive substitution.

Wide open 3 boom.

Then again cassel supposedly taking forever to cross the 1/2 court even when clearly he didn't.




Grr. Just can't forget

he clearly did! They took a time out and didn't realize how much time they had left to cross half court. Dumbleavy's terrible coaching in late game situations cost them.

[thanumba2clippersfan]

I meant to comment on this earlier. If we are talking about 2006 Brand vs 2014 Griffin I would take Brand. He was a superior rebounded, better defender, and better jump shooter. Griffin is more athletic, more mobile, a better play maker, and more explosive offensively. Now I believe that Blake will still get better and hasn't hit his prime yet. I believe that Griffin will turn out to be the better player, but right now I don't think he was better than Elton Brand in 2006.

[Neddy]

You mean the 05-06 Brand? He was better, he was a better shooter, similar scorer, but a superior defensive player, a good part of that due to length. Despite his 6'8 height, Brand has the reach of a C while Blake is 6'10 and has the reach of a SF.

He played 45.5 mpg, so we have to adjust for that, but he dropped 31/10/4 with 3 blocks and .628 TS% vs the Suns in the post-season. That was the punishment for putting little people on him. That series hurt, the Clippers had it. Sigh...

I swear I still have nightmares about this.

Ice cold Ewing with 0 minutes played gets in as defensive substitution.

Wide open 3 boom.

Then again cassel supposedly taking forever to cross the 1/2 court even when clearly he didn't.




Grr. Just can't forget

he clearly did! They took a time out and didn't realize how much time they had left to cross half court. Dumbleavy's terrible coaching in late game situations cost them.

can't blame Sam or Mike for that play. that 8 second rule was pretty fresh and rarely enforced to be a routine play/rule for coaches to be on top of, or players to have it muscle memorized, especially coming off a timeout. we had that game, and we had that series. the Suns not only had no answer for Brand, but their biggest hole was against defending Sam in a post up situations where he abused Nash, Barbosa, Eddie House, you name it, no PG on that roster could handle Sam down low. we knew it, Sam knew it. that's why he was grinning bringing the ball up, knowing he could score anytime he really wanted to against them, licking his chops, and forgot that the 8 second was about to expire.......

it is what it is. at least we didn't have to witness our players or coaches having to address Donald how great of an owner he is if we had gone all the way.

[madmaxmedia]

I think the only fair way to compare the 2 is with both of them after their fourth seasons, since Blake is not nearly in his prime. And in that comparison I choose Blake Griffin every single day of the week. Blake is more productive statistically when comparing both after 4 seasons, and has a higher ceiling than Elton Brand.

That's not to say Brand doesn't have his strengths as well, and he had a monster season in 05-06.

Maybe the 'after 4 years' comparison is a little to easy. But Brand is 05-06 was at his peak, Blake Griffin right now is like 80% awesomeness, and 20% where you still see holes in his game, but they're getting smaller every year. When he calmly knocks down multiple 18-footers you can see the other teams' players start to deflate, like "Really? Now you're gonna do that to us too???"

[Angel strike1]

I swear I still have nightmares about this.

Ice cold Ewing with 0 minutes played gets in as defensive substitution.

Wide open 3 boom.

Then again cassel supposedly taking forever to cross the 1/2 court even when clearly he didn't.




Grr. Just can't forget

he clearly did! They took a time out and didn't realize how much time they had left to cross half court. Dumbleavy's terrible coaching in late game situations cost them.

can't blame Sam or Mike for that play. that 8 second rule was pretty fresh and rarely enforced to be a routine play/rule for coaches to be on top of, or players to have it muscle memorized, especially coming off a timeout. we had that game, and we had that series. the Suns not only had no answer for Brand, but their biggest hole was against defending Sam in a post up situations where he abused Nash, Barbosa, Eddie House, you name it, no PG on that roster could handle Sam down low. we knew it, Sam knew it. that's why he was grinning bringing the ball up, knowing he could score anytime he really wanted to against them, licking his chops, and forgot that the 8 second was about to expire.......

it is what it is. at least we didn't have to witness our players or coaches having to address Donald how great of an owner he is if we had gone all the way.

you know how many times i watched that play? i can prob tell you who was standing were. i still dont belive it took 8 sec.

[Angel strike1]

as far as the topic. i am more warmed up to eb now. i like to belive deep down he knew he was done and didnt wana screw us over. just look at what cost us to give baron up. with ebs contract would been ages that we recovered.


i really reamember eb as more of a beast. i am sorry i llove blade and he is prob one of my fav clippers. him playing with cp3 he dont really seem as big of a beast as eb was. the dude was auto 20+points 10rebounds and good shooter.

[og15]

I think the only fair way to compare the 2 is with both of them after their fourth seasons, since Blake is not nearly in his prime. And in that comparison I choose Blake Griffin every single day of the week. Blake is more productive statistically when comparing both after 4 seasons, and has a higher ceiling than Elton Brand.

That's not to say Brand doesn't have his strengths as well, and he had a monster season in 05-06.

Maybe the 'after 4 years' comparison is a little to easy. But Brand is 05-06 was at his peak, Blake Griffin right now is like 80% awesomeness, and 20% where you still see holes in his game, but they're getting smaller every year. When he calmly knocks down multiple 18-footers you can see the other teams' players start to deflate, like "Really? Now you're gonna do that to us too???"

Well the question was prime Brand vs Blake, so it wasn't a "fair" question, I think the OP might just have been curious as to whether Blake had reached that level yet.

Brand is and was a man. Blake is soft. Brand wound bully blake all over the court.

Brand in Philly wasn't really bullying Blake all over the court. Why do some people seem to think that comparisons require tearing down one player in the comparison? So weird, where does this come from?

I like Blake. Brand was a Superior Rebounder because he used his positioning and body.
Brand was not a leaper but a small sized power forward with a decent mid range shot
but he was not always commanding the ball.

Blake has alot more athleticism and potential. Once Blake gets his shot down
he will be hard to stop. He has had 40 point games and I don't think Brand had very
few 40 point games if any.

Blake is just got more upside.

Honestly they aren't that far off in rebounding, but Blake's playoff rebounding has been mediocre. Brand was not a small PF, actually it is the opposite, Blake is the undersized PF. I just touched on this, but there's a wrong focus on head height that tricks people. Blake is 6'10 with an 8'9 standing reach, Brand is 6'9 with a 9'2 standing reach. Brand came in at about 260, a little overweight, Blake at 250 and muscular, Brand dropped to about 250 in the 05-06 season, so not undersized in terms of weight either. I think Brand got listed at 6'8 here and there, but 6'8.25" without shoes is 6'9 with shoes, not 6'8 with shoes. Without shoes, Blake was measured at 6'8.5, 0.25 inches taller than Brand, so he's not magically two inches taller when they wear shoes. If we give them both 1 inch in shoes, it should be 6'9.25 and 6'9.5.

Without jumping, Brand is already playing 5 inches taller, that's a huge deal. Who is undersized there? Brand was strong as an ox himself and was mobile and a good leaper also, though not a leaper like Blake of course. Brand's wingspan (7'5.5) and standing reach fall into the range of NBA centers. Blake's actually falls into the range of NBA SF's and the low and of of PF's.

Check this, DJ has a 7'6 wingspan and 9'5.5" standing reach. There's a bigger difference between Blake and Brand than DJ and Blake when it comes to reach. If you took away height perceptions, Brand is actually physically very capable of playing C, which is why in his older age he's played as a solid backup C for teams and despite being perceived as undersized, the on court performance doesn't support the idea.

If you don't believe Brand actually was as long as C's, here's current C's:
Dwight Howard: 9'3.5"
Giorgiu Dieng: 9'3.5
Bismack Biyombo: 9'3.4
Byron Mullens: 9'3
Chris Kaman: 9'2.5
Andrew Bogut: 9'2.5
Emeka Okafor: 9'2.5
Al Jefferson: 9'2
Tyson Chandler: 9'2
Marcin Gortat: 9'2

That's why Brand wasn't getting blocked all over the place like actual undersized PF's or a strategy of put a bigger guy didn't mean much against him since he could actually shoot and make his moes inside over them still.

Well where does Blake fall? Let's consider this. These SF's have a standing reach 8'11 or higher:
James Jones, Trevor Ariza, Rudy Gay, Paul George, that's 2-2.5 inches on Blake reach wise.

Every PF you can think of that you consider undersized probably has like 2 inches of reach on Blake.
Reggie Evans: 8'11.5
Anthony Tolliver: 8'11.5
Michael Sweetney: 8'11.5
Micheal Beasley: 8'11
Jason Maxiell: 8'11
Darell Arthur: 8'11
Patrick Patterson: 8'11
Terrence Jones: 8'11
David Lee: 8'10.5
Ronny Turiaf: 8'10.5
Brandon Bass: 8'10.5
Kris Himphries: 8'10.5
Ryan Gomes: 8'10.5
Josh Smith: 8'10.5
DeJuan Blair: 8'10.5
Lebron James: 8'10.25
Thaddeus Young: 8'10
Kevin Love: 8'10
Martell Webster: 8'10
Michael Dinleavy: 8'10
Tyler Hansbrough: 8'10
Wesley Johnson: 8'10
Trevor Booker: 8'10
Kawhi Leonard: 8'10
Kyle Singler: 8'10
Thomas Robinson: 8'10
Paul Millsap: 8'9.5
Andre Iguodala: 8'9.5
Shaun Livingston: 8'9.5
Carmelo Anthony: 8'9.5
Shaun Livignsron: 8'9.5
Matt Bonner, Josh Howard, Rasual Butler, James Johnson, Sam Young, Jared Singler, Otto Porter: 8'9.5
Adam Morrison, Sean May, Josh Childress, Shane Batier, Bobby Simmons, DeMarre Carroll, Xavier Henry, Joe Johnson, Draymonf Green, Quincy Miller:8'9
Blake Griffin: 8'9

Now, I'm not saying standing reach is the be all end all, but it matters, and guys who don't have other abilities to overcome their deficiencies there struggle in the NBA and people are confused why. This is one reason Cody Zeller should have been a player teams are weary of, he has the length of the lower end of PF's, not a C length wise. Some guys can make up for it, but that isn't the norm.

So the next time someone wonders why it seems so difficult for Blake to contest a big like a LaMarcus Aldridge's shot or contest in post defense, let them consider that half the SF's in the league reach higher than Blake while just standing and that Blake is at the bare minimum low end for PF's when it comes to reach, he's about 3 inches below most. 3 inches is the difference between 6'5 and 6'8, 6'2 and 6'5, 6'8 and 6'11. Length wise, Blake is like a 6'8 guy who weighs a good amount, is really strong and can jump really high (of course discounting his skills, just purely physically). Which is also why he deserves a lot of props, more so than people realize.

[og15]

I think the only fair way to compare the 2 is with both of them after their fourth seasons, since Blake is not nearly in his prime. And in that comparison I choose Blake Griffin every single day of the week. Blake is more productive statistically when comparing both after 4 seasons, and has a higher ceiling than Elton Brand.

That's not to say Brand doesn't have his strengths as well, and he had a monster season in 05-06.

Maybe the 'after 4 years' comparison is a little to easy. But Brand is 05-06 was at his peak, Blake Griffin right now is like 80% awesomeness, and 20% where you still see holes in his game, but they're getting smaller every year. When he calmly knocks down multiple 18-footers you can see the other teams' players start to deflate, like "Really? Now you're gonna do that to us too???"

They are pretty even over their first 4 years, probably would take into account Brand starting a year early and compare from his second year. Statistically very close with each having their different advantages, but Brand also was the better defender from day 1.

Blake's scoring potential though is higher. If he ever becomes the shooter Brand is/was, he'd be unstoppable. His ball handling and ability to get put on the break are areas Brand can't match which allow him to have greater scoring potential. Brand was a good passer, but not Blake good, defense, I'm not sure Blake can make up the vast difference in physical tools to be as good a defender.

[madmaxmedia]

That's a good point about defense, I hadn't considered it and it's a big plus for EB. Brand definitely had a center's presence, I didn't know the exact measurements but his long arms were easily noticeable on the court and in play.

Blake's standing reach was somewhat of a concern before the draft. But he uses his quickness and strength to get around and shoot around people, rather than try to shoot over them. It does take more work than if he could just go straight up and shoot over them though. As you say it makes defense harder too, I think it would make a player much more prone to go for ball fakes, etc. and definitely requires more concentration and effort.

Statistically they are pretty close in their first four years. But I think the potential is there for Blake to elevate his offense another level, where he becomes a comfortable and very effective wing player. IF he does that (the tools are there but need refinement), I think he'll reach a level on offense that will make him the greater overall player than Brand. The man works like a beast, so I think he will get there.

[adiedanny]

People look at me crazy when I say that team may have been the better team. Sam Cassell was a killer.